Rumor: Shattenkirk for Krejci?

[bearcountry17]

Kind of silly to use the old "points aren't everything" to knock Krejci. If points aren't everything then where would you rank Shattenkirk? Never mind the fact that Krejci doesn't rely on the PP to rack up his points.

 

[wintersej]

FFS....can we get back to what deal both sides are ok with? As I've said....Krecji isn't my idea target due to age and contract but he's still an excellent acquisition.

So.....to get back on track, Shattenkirk(+) for Krejci

What's the plus Boston? If you don't like the trade, and your just going to say "no deal here" then don't bother posting.

A LOT also depends on if the Bruins can sign Vesey. Bruins can more afford to subtract from the forward core if they are getting a supposedly plug and play middle 6 winger out of thin air. I'd go so far as to say a deal can't happen unless Vesey comes to Boston.

So with that our of the way, Shattenkirk + Berglund for Krejci might be the simplest deal. STL stays cap compliant, Boston gets a C to hold down the 3rd line for a season until some of the kids (thinking JFK) are ready. Bruins would have plenty of space to deal with Marchand, Shattenkirk, Spooner and Pastrnak next summer and would be in great shape for the expansion draft.

 

[stl76]

Kind of feels like this topic has been beaten to death and both sides have moved on from discussing a possible trade to trashing the other team's player.

There has not been any new "news" regarding a Shattenkirk for Krejci deal since the tweet that originally spawned this thread. Maybe it is time to close this thread, unless people want to get back to discussing a deal instead of devaluing the other team's player...

 

[reffree]

Krejci is barely a 50% possession player despite Bergeron getting the toughest assignments. He's basically a flip of the coin at the faceoff dot, he does not get the most penalty kill time on his own team, he was merely a +4 despite pacing for 70 points, he has a negative takeaway/giveaway ratio. He has major health and injury concerns, etc. The non-Bostonians here could all go on about this.

He's a first line C on plenty of teams (the Blues included), but if you're being realistic and looking beyond pure points there are a lot of reasons why he's a notch or two below the best guys in the league.

The same sort of criticisms that keep Shattenkirk from being a "legit #1" apply to Krejci at his position. That's all we're saying.

If you're being realistic ...
50% possession player on a team that didn't made the playoff and was often pined in their on zone with a inepth back end.

The last 5 years at the dot he was: 50,1 - 53,2 - 51,2 - 55,2 - 52,1 and that doesn't make him close to being the best at faceoff in the league.

He does not play the most time on the penalty kill on his own team, again you said it right, he play the PK, but he's not "the one" on the team. Behind the Bergeron-Marchand duo and behind Erkisson, so he's only the 4th foward with the most PK time in the team, shame. (Of course we could aslo look at other number 1 center to see how many are better than 4th in their team).

He was only a +4, again you're right. And you are right he scored 62 pts. +4 for 62 pts doesn't look good at all. But then again he played with Eriksson and a cast of rotating winger who shouldn't have played on the 1st line and the team as a whole was +7 at even strength. So being +4 on a team +7 isn't bad either.

He has a negative ratio of -13 for take away/give away. Surprinsing how a guy who handle the puck alot could have some give away. For exemple:
Getzlaf is -27
Seguin is -25
McDavid is -16 (in 45 games)
Tavares is -13
Giroux is -4
Crosby is -7
Thornton is -21
Pavelski is -36
Henrik is -27

The guy who lead the league in give away aren't the one who handle the puck like a grenade, they are those who handle the puck alot and try to make plays. Shooting the puck at the glass isn't a take away but it desn't lead to much possession anyway.

Krejci as some injury concern, he missed 45 games in the last two years. However he miss 16 games the 6 years prior, so was it bad luck or is he now injury prone? Too soon to tell, but you can't jump to gun after roughly one year where he missed 35 games.

 

[trevorftw]

If you're being realistic ...
50% possession player on a team that didn't made the playoff and was often pined in their on zone with a inepth back end.

The last 5 years at the dot he was: 50,1 - 53,2 - 51,2 - 55,2 - 52,1 and that doesn't make him close to being the best at faceoff in the league.

He does not play the most time on the penalty kill on his own team, again you said it right, he play the PK, but he's not "the one" on the team. Behind the Bergeron-Marchand duo and behind Erkisson, so he's only the 4th foward with the most PK time in the team, shame. (Of course we could aslo look at other number 1 center to see how many are better than 4th in their team).

He was only a +4, again you're right. And you are right he scored 62 pts. +4 for 62 pts doesn't look good at all. But then again he played with Eriksson and a cast of rotating winger who shouldn't have played on the 1st line and the team as a whole was +7 at even strength. So being +4 on a team +7 isn't bad either.

He has a negative ratio of -13 for take away/give away. Surprinsing how a guy who handle the puck alot could have some give away. For exemple:
Getzlaf is -27
Seguin is -25
McDavid is -16 (in 45 games)
Tavares is -13
Giroux is -4
Crosby is -7
Thornton is -21
Pavelski is -36
Henrik is -27

The guy who lead the league in give away aren't the one who handle the puck like a grenade, they are those who handle the puck alot and try to make plays. Shooting the puck at the glass isn't a take away but it desn't lead to much possession anyway.

Krejci as some injury concern, he missed 45 games in the last two years. However he miss 16 games the 6 years prior, so was it bad luck or is he now injury prone? Too soon to tell, but you can't jump to gun after roughly one year where he missed 35 games.

As a blues fan, I agree with all of this. Trying to spin krejci as a player weak in any single area is a flawed argument because the guy is good at everything. It's perfectly understandable for Boston fans to prefer not to trade him.

I do wish the shattenkirk trade rumors hadnt lowered his perceived trade value on these boards. I think these players could be traded for each other. It might take some additions to make things work, but it could be a trade that works out for both sides.

 

[dredeye]

Krejci is barely a 50% possession player despite Bergeron getting the toughest assignments. He's basically a flip of the coin at the faceoff dot, he does not get the most penalty kill time on his own team, he was merely a +4 despite pacing for 70 points, he has a negative takeaway/giveaway ratio. He has major health and injury concerns, etc. The non-Bostonians here could all go on about this.

He's a first line C on plenty of teams (the Blues included), but if you're being realistic and looking beyond pure points there are a lot of reasons why he's a notch or two below the best guys in the league.

The same sort of criticisms that keep Shattenkirk from being a "legit #1" apply to Krejci at his position. That's all we're saying.

Krejci wouldn't be our best center for very long. Fabbri's ceiling is at least as high as Krejci right now, if not higher. When he shifts to center, he will be better than Krejci sooner than you'd think. Over the back half of the season including playoffs (55 games), Fabbri put up .75 points per game as a rookie playing generally less than 15 minutes a night and plays a good 2-way/possession game as well. Krejci will decline, Fabbri will improve.

Krejci's health is also in question. How well will he recover from hip surgery? We could be left wishing we had gotten one year out of Shattnekirk rather than be stuck with a $7.5M cripple. I'd be willing to bet that if this trade does happen, it won't happen until after the season starts and Krejci can show he is recovered.

All in all, the trade just stinks. Krejci is absolutely the wrong player for the Blues to be targeting. He is too expensive, older than our new core and has a pretty serious injury history. I'd much rather trade Shattenkirk for a much less proven 24-25 year old that is still cost controlled. Krejci is better than nothing as a stop gap, but it would be another fumble by Blues management of targeting the wrong players in trades.

If he's not the right fit it's not for me to argue. But my Bruins have done quite well with similarly producing centres. If Fabbri develops into a similar player to krejci that's dynamite. But having two Krejcis should never be considered an issue. Dollars maybe. Of course there are concerns about his health with his surgery but it doesn't concern me all that much. (Not saying it shouldn't concern you) if I were you it would be one for me as an outsider. But the reality for Bruins fans is we potentially have no other asset for krejci after this year and if we do retain him he'll be in the same dollar range as Krejci making the salaries almost a wash if he came with an extension.

 

[bluetuned]

Just to be clear, I think Shattenkirk for Krejci would be a very solid move for the Blues that solves a huge problem on our roster. I would love to see it happen. I'd also do something like Shattenkirk and Berglund for Krejci, as suggested above.

I'm not trying to tear him down by posting negatives about him. I'm just pointing out why it's difficult for Blues fans to rationalize Boston fans knocking Shattenkirk down for not being a stud #1 along the lines of Doughty or Hedman, while ignoring all the reasons why the same is true for Krejci compared with guys like Bergeron, Kopitar, etc.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

I love the deal for both sides if it happens, but neither are #1 guys IMO... both are a tier below #1 at their position. Shattenkirk is younger and has way less injury history than Krejci... for me, I think Krejci would be a good fit on Blues, but STL needs to be careful with this one. 2 major hip surgeries and knee/shoulder injuries recently with Krejci is a HUGE concern

 

[BlueDream]

I'd love a deal around Shatty and Krejci as a Blues fan, as I think it'd make us a much better team.

Although I'd rather be giving up Lehtera than Berglund in the deal.

 

[wintersej]

I'd love a deal around Shatty and Krejci as a Blues fan, as I think it'd make us a much better team.

Although I'd rather be giving up Lehtera than Berglund in the deal.

Can't see Boston taking on Lehtera. Doesn't make sense for Boston to take on a much lesser player than Krejci that only makes a couple million less. He would have negative value in the deal from Boston's POV.

 

[Frenzy31]

This whole thread was started by a tweet from Bucchi. Jermey Rutherford the Blues beat writer just stated on Friday that everything is quiet on the Blues trade front.

I think we can let this thread die and quit running down both DK and Shatty.

 

[wintersej]

I love the deal for both sides if it happens, but neither are #1 guys IMO... both are a tier below #1 at their position. Shattenkirk is younger and has way less injury history than Krejci... for me, I think Krejci would be a good fit on Blues, but STL needs to be careful with this one. 2 major hip surgeries and knee/shoulder injuries recently with Krejci is a HUGE concern

I think you are vastly overstating the injury concerns here. In 2014-15 both these guys missed a lot of time. Neither has missed more than the odd few game in any other year. Krejci's hip surgeries are not major surgeries at all. Simple procedures. Femoroacetabular Impingement is a super super common hockey injury. Benn just had the surgery, too. Its literally just a bone spur on the hip joint. Its no big deal.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

I think you are vastly overstating the injury concerns here. In 2014-15 both these guys missed a lot of time. Neither has missed more than the odd few game in any other year. Krejci's hip surgeries are not major surgeries at all. Simple procedures. Femoroacetabular Impingement is a super super common hockey injury. Benn just had the surgery, too. Its literally just a bone spur on the hip joint. Its no big deal.

Well I would think that since the recovery times for his surgeries were 5 months, it's a pretty big deal and hips are used so much when skating, but maybe I'm wrong.. I know doctors do great jobs fixing that, but I'm just worried about the fact he is 30 and have both hips surgically repaired is a pretty big question mark forsure for llongevity and also knee and shoulder injuries that have kept him weeks at a time... who knows, we will see what happens!! As I said before I love Krejci but I'd just be pretty damn nervous using a key trade bait like Shattenkirk on him.. it could work out extremely well for STL or it could be a disaster!

 

[nmbr_24]

I am curious which players on that list you think Krejci is better than defensively.

Bergeron, Kopitar, and Toews are pretty clearly better defensively. Crosby, Sedin, Backstrom, Getzlaf, and Thornton are all also better defensively IMO but there is room for debate here between reasonable hockey fans. That leaves Giroux, Malkin, Seguin, McDavid, Taveras, and Stamkos from the list provided by MissouriMook. Krejci may be better than these centers defensively, but their offensive production is a tier above what Krejci brings.

If your point is that Krejci is far better defensively and scores as much as half that list then I think you are mistaken.

He is better defensively than Crosby, Malkin, Seguin, Stamkos, and Tavares, no doubt about it. Maybe Crosby could be a lot better if he concentrated on it more but he doesn't. He is so good that he can be just good defensively and great everywhere else. McDavid I just haven't seen enough of to draw a conclusion for. The guys who are better than him are Bergeron, Toews, Kopitar, Thornton, and the rest that i haven't mentioned are pretty close to Krejci.

Krejci handles Crosby when the Bruins play them and Bergeron handles Malkin. They held them to 0 goals in an entire playoff series. If it wasn't for Bergeron Krejci would be getting a lot more Selke consideration just like he was before people realized that Bergeron is one of the top few defensive forwards in the game.

If he is the 15th best offensive center and the 5-8th best defensive center out of those guys he certainly is a #1 center.

 

[wintersej]

I think Krejci is being oversold defensively here. The Bruins system puts a LOT on the center. It is collapsing to the extreme and relies on the center to chase down puck in the defensive zone, anticipate, and disrupt the play. Krejci can handle that role. Its a system that plays to Bergeron's strengths, but was a lot for Spooner to try to handle. The extra defensive work probably takes away from Krejci's offense, as playing in Boston is want to do to players offensive numbers. He is a good defensive player, but it far from a difference maker in that regard, just capable of being a top minute eating center on a team that is defensively focused. Many of the other names mentioned above could certainly play the same role Krejci does in Boston. What would happen to their offensive numbers in doing so is the question.

 

[FLYLine27*]

Guess this was another BOGAS rumor

 

[bleedblue1223]

Guess this was another BOGAS rumor

The rumor never said anything is imminent and rumors don't always turn into actual trades.

 

[bleedblue1223]

The whole point of the Krejci #1 discussion was if he was a legit #1, can he be a number one without a better center behind him in Bergeron? It's one thing to lead the line when you have someone who can both shut the opponent down and score points, it's another to lead the line when Stastny, Sobotka, Lehtera, and Berglund are the centers behind you. Stastny is good, but Krejci would be the undisputed #1, and that's a role that he hasn't been truly tested in.

It's a fair question when other fans say the same things about Shattenkirk.

Would Krejci be our best center? Yes. Would he be as effective as he was in Boston? We don't know. Will he be as good in his post-30 years as he was in his pre-30 years? We don't know, but history and statistics are against him.

Same as Shattenkirk would be Boston's best defenseman, but we don't know for sure how he'd be in that role.

 

[nmbr_24]

The whole point of the Krejci #1 discussion was if he was a legit #1, can he be a number one without a better center behind him in Bergeron? It's one thing to lead the line when you have someone who can both shut the opponent down and score points, it's another to lead the line when Stastny, Sobotka, Lehtera, and Berglund are the centers behind you. Stastny is good, but Krejci would be the undisputed #1, and that's a role that he hasn't been truly tested in.

It's a fair question when other fans say the same things about Shattenkirk.

Would Krejci be our best center? Yes. Would he be as effective as he was in Boston? We don't know. Will he be as good in his post-30 years as he was in his pre-30 years? We don't know, but history and statistics are against him.

Same as Shattenkirk would be Boston's best defenseman, but we don't know for sure how he'd be in that role.

Krejci basically got his chance to play because Bergeron was seriously injured and missed almost the entire year. The could never get him out of the lineup after that. Krejci's best season was while Bergeron played a 68 game season while recovering from the aforementioned serious injury and he was counted on to fill Bergeron's shoes until he recovered. I think he would do pretty good in St Louis. Krejci can be the one shutting people down too. He is a very good two way player. He has already proven that he can have success without Bergeron.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

If I make this trade.

ShattenKirk with an extension agreed on for krejci straight up.

I don't see a plus coming back like some are saying

 

[bleedblue1223]

If I make this trade.

ShattenKirk with an extension agreed on for krejci straight up.

I don't see a plus coming back like some are saying

Pluses on each side have to happen for salary purposes.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Pluses on each side have to happen for salary purposes.

Like Boston sends a defensemen blues send a forward?
Extra?

Cuz after this year they will be making the same amount

 

[bluetuned]

Like Boston sends a defensemen blues send a forward?
Extra?

Cuz after this year they will be making the same amount

This year the salary doesn't work 'cause the Blues will be too close to the cap. IF Sobotka returns (still not 100% a lock) then the Blues can only bring back around 1M extra cap hit in any Shattenkirk deal. That's why I've seen something like Shatty and Berglund for Krejci suggested a lot. The salary is closer to an even swap (7.95 to the Bruins, 7.25 to the Blues). Berglund is a very serviceable Top 9 winger or 3C to fill Krejci's void. He'll also be a UFA at years end if Boston isn't interested in him long term.

I'm not holding my breath for any of these deals at this point, but this one makes a lot of sense IMO.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

This year the salary doesn't work 'cause the Blues will be too close to the cap. IF Sobotka returns (still not 100% a lock) then the Blues can only bring back around 1M extra cap hit in any Shattenkirk deal. That's why I've seen something like Shatty and Berglund for Krejci suggested a lot. The salary is closer to an even swap (7.95 to the Bruins, 7.25 to the Blues). Berglund is a very serviceable Top 9 winger or 3C to fill Krejci's void. He'll also be a UFA at years end if Boston isn't interested in him long term.

I'm not holding my breath for any of these deals at this point, but this one makes a lot of sense IMO.

Ahh okay.
Makes sense so it's more so a + for cap reasons then value. Though that player doesn't have negative value it's positive value

 

[westc2]

This year the salary doesn't work 'cause the Blues will be too close to the cap. IF Sobotka returns (still not 100% a lock) then the Blues can only bring back around 1M extra cap hit in any Shattenkirk deal. That's why I've seen something like Shatty and Berglund for Krejci suggested a lot. The salary is closer to an even swap (7.95 to the Bruins, 7.25 to the Blues). Berglund is a very serviceable Top 9 winger or 3C to fill Krejci's void. He'll also be a UFA at years end if Boston isn't interested in him long term.

I'm not holding my breath for any of these deals at this point, but this one makes a lot of sense IMO.

I would not wanna give up Shattenkirk AND Berglund for Krejci...that's too much. Krejci seems like he'd be Stastny 2.0 on the Blues. Way overpriced for what he brings to the table. It would have to be Lehtera going back since he only plays center, and then Boston would have to add something.