Confirmed with Link: Sharks sign Alexander Wennberg 2 years 5M AAV

[Pavelski2112]

It wasn’t so much that Mueller wasn’t a bad pick or that the team was bad. It was that Mueller was gifted a top-4 role directly out of the draft based on… the team needing him to be a top-4 defender directly out of the draft. IMO, and purely on retrospective speculation, the Mueller situation felt like DW said to the scouting staff “I need a partner for Burns next season out of the draft, make it happen” so they ended up reaching to get the guy they felt was the most NHL ready and gifted him a spot. To me, again with the benefit of hindsight, it was the ultimate hubris to believe they could just materialize an 18 year old top-4 defender out of a mid-first pick. Wilson basically depended on hopium instead of having an actual plan. This is one of the purest examples of drafting for organizational need instead of BPA.

The contention here is that the team can’t just fill roster spots out of the draft at will, when in reality barring the top 1-3 picks, these prospects can’t be dropped into NHL rosters fresh out of the draft and be expected to be even remotely successful.

In regards to Mueller specifically, he wasn’t offered a proper opportunity to develop, but was shoved into a highly demanding role (not just top four, but partner to the wildcard Burns) he wasn’t ready for and when he inevitably failed to succeed he was quickly jettisoned. Who’s to say how he would have done if provided a proper development journey; but, as a policy, repeating the process that lead to his arrival on the Sharks seems foolish in the extreme.

Mueller was a bad pick, even at the time. There was plenty of cope around it at the time, trying to justify him as the next Vlasic, but we all knew it wasn't a good pick.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

Mueller was a bad pick, even at the time. There was plenty of cope around it at the time, trying to justify him as the next Vlasic, but we all knew it wasn't a good pick.

To be clear, I was in no way arguing that Mueller wasn’t a bad pick. It was garbage AF and pretty apparent from the drop.

 

[STL Shark]

not signing him is something that he could have done.

Wennberg doesn't provide anything that we don't already have on the roster, aside from what, "veteran presence?", Wennberg has zero Cups, and he has little to no value in a trade so flipping him isn't an option either.

Dude literally fetched a 2nd and a 5th this trade deadline. Do a little research.

 

[STL Shark]

Sorry I do not buy this argument really, sure if there is like one, maybe two prospects that really impress at camp and force their way onto the team, then yeah I could see us waiving a couple guys to get them on the roster.

However lets just pretend for a second that all of Celebrini, Smith, Guschin, Musty and Bysted have great camps and look primed and ready for NHL time at various spots in the lineup. Can you honestly tell me you think 5 roster players are getting waived to accommodate that many prospects looking ready for NHL time?

Which 5 players do you honestly think Grier would waive to fit that many prospects on the team?

Sorry I just do not think Grier went out and got a bunch of new players, to turn around and just bench/waive them because some of our prospects look like they might be able to fill some of the roles already filled.



Wipe the snark out of your mouth, because I sure as shit never said or implied Grundstrom and Smith would block Celebrini or Smith from making the team. Those players are not competing for the same spots on the roster in the first place.

On the other hand, guys like Bysted, Musty, Guschin etc, who might be ready for middle six playing time might get blocked by guys like Kunin, Wennberg, Kostin etc, and I frankly would rather watch our prospects play and maybe struggle and learn at the NHL level, then watch another year of freaking Kunin wasting a roster spot.

That is not even taking into account any of our prospects that might be bottom 6 players and not middle six, where I think there is no shot in hell a prospect makes this team on the 4th line due to how many bottom 6 players we have.

As to your second question
1- There is no guarantee Smith and Celebini are on the team this year.
2- I would like to see Guschin, Musty, Bysted, or any other prospect that surprises at camp play on this team. Literally any prospect I would rather watch play over any of Grundstrom, Dellandrea, Smith, Kunin, Goodrow, Kostin etc.

I am all for having veterans in the lineup to help ease the burden on our prospects, I just think we got a few too many veterans to the point where now I fail to see more than like 2-3 prospects actually make the team, and that is only if Celebrini and Smith decide to leave college. If they dont decide to make the jump, I would frankly not be shocked if no prospects made the team, not including Eklund, and that thought makes me very unhappy, because I do not want to watch another season with a roster filled with guys that have no future on this team suck ass all year.

Not reading all of that when the 2nd paragraph is so outlandishly bad.

Name me a time when 5 prospects were actually ready at one time in the history of the NHL. Also, name me an NHL team in history with 5 rookies comprising their 12 forward slots. This is the dumbest argument I think that I have ever seen in history.

 

[STL Shark]

So not to relitigate the past, but what was so bad about our handling of Mirco Mueller? In hindsight he wasn't on anywhere near as bad a team as we've had in recent years, he just didn't step up because he wasn't good enough. He was always a reach and a bad pick, a rightful "who?" that busted, predictably.

Keeping him beyond his 9 games in his D+2 season and then scratching him for a large stretch. Sent him to WJC and then sent him back to the AHL for like 3 games. So burnt a year and got a whopping 42 games of hockey that year.

 

[Bizz]

So not to relitigate the past, but what was so bad about our handling of Mirco Mueller? In hindsight he wasn't on anywhere near as bad a team as we've had in recent years, he just didn't step up because he wasn't good enough. He was always a reach and a bad pick, a rightful "who?" that busted, predictably.

Mirco Mueller was never a good player. Busts happen but the way we handled him wouldn't have been any different had we done it any other way.

 

[Bizz]

Dude literally fetched a 2nd and a 5th this trade deadline. Do a little research.

yeah and Rangers fans were calling it an absolute fleecing. He was a last minute desperation trade for a team that missed out on their main targets last TDL. Just because one idiot GM made that trade doesn't determine what his actual value is.

 

[STL Shark]

yeah and Rangers fans were calling it an absolute fleecing. He was a last minute desperation trade for a team that missed out on their main targets last TDL. Just because one idiot GM made that trade doesn't determine what his actual value is.

Just because 1 internet poster doesn't like a player (despite objective evidence to the contrary) doesn't determine what his actual value is. See how that works?

 

[Bizz]

Just because 1 internet poster doesn't like a player (despite objective evidence to the contrary) doesn't determine what his actual value is. See how that works?

>one guy

Hey the Rangers can say they at least attempted to keep up with the other teams.

After Edmonton and Colorado got their centers, he really only had 1 option left.

He’s got very decent underlying numbers

But he also is one of the worst penalty killers in the league which really tanks his overall impact surprisingly in many models.

So underwhelming.

It's meh. We needed a real 3rd line center, we can't have Brodzinsky, an AHLer, playing on the 3rd line for the playoffs.

boring

We STILL need a 3rd line center.

Shutting down the Kraken's offence

okay.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Now we can trade Granlund without re-filling his roster spot and this basically covers the cap evenly. We'll probably trade Granlund at the deadline now and go into next year (2025-26) with Celebrini-Smith-Wennberg down the middle.

 

[Gecklund]

I love this signing as a way to bump up our C depth but Wennberg should not see time next to Smith or Celebrini. Dude has almost no offensive ability. He’s the hockey equivalent of 3 and D wing from basketball.

 

[Hodge]

I love this signing as a way to bump up our C depth but Wennberg should not see time next to Smith or Celebrini. Dude has almost no offensive ability. He’s the hockey equivalent of 3 and D wing from basketball.

I don't think he will. The plan has to be assembling 3rd and 4th lines out of Wennberg, Sturm, Kunin, Goodrow, Dellandrea, etc. that can be completely thrown to the wolves to free up the easiest possible minutes for Mack, Will and Eklund.

 

[STL Shark]

>one guy


















okay.

Meant you. I don't value the opinions of the most irrational US hockey market fans known to mankind. Facts are that he was traded for that return.

So your premise of "he won't have trade value" is patently made up by your own thoughts rather than the evidence that is out there from quite literally the most recent data point available (this past trade deadline).

Nobody is arguing that he's a superstar. The argument is that he was signed to a fair market deal (based on objective contract projection models) and that he will likely be able to be flipped for a decent return at the 2025-26 trade deadline as a bottom 6 center for a contending team (like he was this past trade deadline). If you're objecting to that, you need to follow the first post and do some additional research on the matter.

 

[STL Shark]

I don't think he will. The plan has to be assembling 3rd and 4th lines out of Wennberg, Sturm, Kunin, Goodrow, Dellandrea, etc. that can be completely thrown to the wolves to free up the easiest possible minutes for Mack, Will and Eklund.

Our defenses' puck moving might not allow as much sheltering in terms of zone starts to get to 70% OZ starts for Smith and 60% for Macklin, but that is darn near where they should strive to get those guys to if at all possible. Let a Kostin-Wennberg-Dellandrea 3rd line and Goodrow-Sturm-Kunin 4th line absorb all of the heavy defensive burden.

It will be a very regressive lineup deployment of 2 scoring lines and 2 checking lines, but that is where we're at right now and probably the easiest way to integrate the rookies into the NHL.

 

[Hodge]

Our defenses' puck moving might not allow as much sheltering in terms of zone starts to get to 70% OZ starts for Smith and 60% for Macklin, but that is darn near where they should strive to get those guys to if at all possible. Let a Kostin-Wennberg-Dellandrea 3rd line and Goodrow-Sturm-Kunin 4th line absorb all of the heavy defensive burden.

It will be a very regressive lineup deployment of 2 scoring lines and 2 checking lines, but that is where we're at right now and probably the easiest way to integrate the rookies into the NHL.

Ideally you'd like to get Celebrini and Smith's lines treading water (or coming as close as possible on this team) while the Wennberg and Sturm lines are operating at like a 35% goal share. The kids get their cookies and we remain in the running for a top 3 pick.

 

[matt trick]

Now we can trade Granlund without re-filling his roster spot and this basically covers the cap evenly. We'll probably trade Granlund at the deadline now and go into next year (2025-26) with Celebrini-Smith-Wennberg down the middle.

Exactly. Then the following year we trade Wennberg, and if we haven't signed another Wennberg type next summer, Edstrom/Bystedt step into the third line C spot for a NHL cameo.

Probably get 2nds for each of them, resulting in two more prospects like Wallenius added to the futures.

 

[Gecklund]

I don't think he will. The plan has to be assembling 3rd and 4th lines out of Wennberg, Sturm, Kunin, Goodrow, Dellandrea, etc. that can be completely thrown to the wolves to free up the easiest possible minutes for Mack, Will and Eklund.

I don’t think so either but I’ve seen some lineups with him on Macklin’s wing or Smith’s wing. I actually love the way our forwards are built at this moment. Our defense needs help and I don’t know if that’s coming but it’s also for sure better right now than last year.

 

[Bizz]

Meant you. I don't value the opinions of the most irrational US hockey market fans known to mankind. Facts are that he was traded for that return.

So your premise of "he won't have trade value" is patently made up by your own thoughts rather than the evidence that is out there from quite literally the most recent data point available (this past trade deadline).

Nobody is arguing that he's a superstar. The argument is that he was signed to a fair market deal (based on objective contract projection models) and that he will likely be able to be flipped for a decent return at the 2025-26 trade deadline as a bottom 6 center for a contending team (like he was this past trade deadline). If you're objecting to that, you need to follow the first post and do some additional research on the matter.

yep. GM don't make mistakes ever. They are perfect human beings who make the right choices 100% of the time and are not subject to criticism ever. After all, they're experts and we aren't, right?

 

[YUPPY 2 7 10 11]

yep. GM don't make mistakes ever. They are perfect human beings who make the right choices 100% of the time and are not subject to criticism ever. After all, they're experts and we aren't, right?

I wish GMs are US presidents, then we wouldn't have to vote. LOL

 

[Bizz]

I wish GMs are US presidents, then we wouldn't have to vote. LOL

to be fair, a US President could have made the Filip Forsberg for Martin Erat trade and some people would still vehemently defend it online.

 

[Dicdonya]

Not reading all of that when the 2nd paragraph is so outlandishly bad.

Name me a time when 5 prospects were actually ready at one time in the history of the NHL. Also, name me an NHL team in history with 5 rookies comprising their 12 forward slots. This is the dumbest argument I think that I have ever seen in history.

Considering you cant read more than two paragraphs, and the fact that both prospect, and ready, are subjective terms, I really should not even respond to your post because it will be futile.

However just for fun, off the top of my head, just from last year, the Sharks are a team that had 5 prospects play that were ready for NHL time. Eklund, Muhk, Bords, Emberson, Thrun and Zetterlund, were all prospects and were are all ready for NHL time. I could find many many other examples of teams that had 5 NHL ready prospects in their lineups, however again, because the terms are so subjective, and you have no intention of having a good faith argument, I won't waste my time.

There kept it to two paragraphs for you, oh.... well besides this one, but hopefully one extra sentence isn't too hard for you.

 

[weastern bias]

off the top of my head, just from last year, the Sharks are a team that had 5 prospects play that were ready for NHL time. Eklund, Muhk, Bords, Emberson, Thrun and Zetterlund, were all prospects and were are all ready for NHL time.

Zetterlund was a 24 year old with 81 career games played over the previous 2 years, I know the definitions are nebulous but that's someone I'd consider a roster player and not a prospect

Mukhamadullin was not ready for NHL time, he demonstrated as much with his uninspiring play in 3 games

But the larger point is that, even if you're right, what does that get you? We had "5 prospects play that were ready for NHL" and it resulted in the worst 82 game season any team has seen since the institution of the salary cap, which was the goal last year, but with actual prospects of value graduating like Celebrini and Smith that CAN'T be our aim this year, we NEED to improve as a team, and playing a bunch of 19 and 20 year olds isn't going to accomplish that unless they're McDavid or Crosby level prospects, which we don't have waiting in the wings

Signings like Wennberg and Toffoli are the only natural path to marked improvement, they're not "blocking prospects", they're raising the floor of our nightly level of play

If a prospect forces the issue and steals a job from a bottom-sixer that's awesome, let them take it, but they have to TAKE it, it can't be reserved for them, that's just asking for the team to underperform even our low expectations

 

[Juxtaposer]

Considering you cant read more than two paragraphs, and the fact that both prospect, and ready, are subjective terms, I really should not even respond to your post because it will be futile.

However just for fun, off the top of my head, just from last year, the Sharks are a team that had 5 prospects play that were ready for NHL time. Eklund, Muhk, Bords, Emberson, Thrun and Zetterlund, were all prospects and were are all ready for NHL time. I could find many many other examples of teams that had 5 NHL ready prospects in their lineups, however again, because the terms are so subjective, and you have no intention of having a good faith argument, I won't waste my time.

There kept it to two paragraphs for you, oh.... well besides this one, but hopefully one extra sentence isn't too hard for you.

Bordeleau and Mukhamadullin were clearly not ready for a full NHL season, Emberson was 23 years old and sent through waivers (typically a sign that a player’s prospect status is done), Zetterlund had a full NHL season under his belt already. Thrun got absolutely trampled by NHLers all season and there is not a single other team in the NHL who would have given him a full-time role. The only “prospect” that deserved to make the team 100% was Eklund.

 

[tiburon12]

Why do people care so much about this contract? Wennberg could be making 10M and we never flip him and it's still not a bad signing.

 

[Alaskanice]

Bordeleau and Mukhamadullin were clearly not ready for a full NHL season, Emberson was 23 years old and sent through waivers (typically a sign that a player’s prospect status is done), Zetterlund had a full NHL season under his belt already. Thrun got absolutely trampled by NHLers all season and there is not a single other team in the NHL who would have given him a full-time role. The only “prospect” that deserved to make the team 100% was Eklund.

I think Emberson is beyond the prospect status. He unfortunately got hurt. I know Thrun wasn’t great but he did show progress. Under fire in the NHL is hard but he will grow from this. Bordeleau did earn his way back and showed improvement. I’d even give Guschin some credit for his cup of coffee.

Therefore, I think a couple did better than you think and deserved more. Maybe that’s just the optimist in me.