Confirmed with Link: Sharks acquire Jake Walman and 2nd round pick 2024 (#53) for future considerations

[weastern bias]

I'd like to interrupt the worst Thanksgiving dinner ever just to ask. . . since when is Barclay Goodrow a center? lol

And man, JTR came in off the top rope on that one, need a Jim Ross call for posterity

 

[timorous me]

We would be the San Jose Jew Crew when we get Buium and resign Kunin. We will then find a way to get the Hughes brothers on the team and Devon Levi in goal.

Need to hire Jeff Halpern as the lead assistant coach now, too.

 

[Hangemhigh]

In this scenario, the Red Wings would literally have been better off losing Walman for nothing on waivers. Why didn't they do that?

They should have run him through waivers, then traded him off with a 2nd if they really had to.

 

[weastern bias]

I still maintain that we're likely to claim a cap problem off waivers from the Red Wings to fulfill the "future considerations"

I expect Justin Holl to be a Shark next season

Future considerations isn't usually "nothing", it's basically a good faith promise to massage more favorable value out of a trade down the road since you're working together to make the current deal happen, say, trading a 4th for a marginal deadline acquisition rather than a 5th

Since we're in a unique cap situation and have priority waiver claim position until at least November I could see the long form of this larger deal basically being "we'll take your 2 cap dump DMen off your hands if you add a 2nd round pick, we could use the warm bodies anyway"

 

[Hodge]

I'd like to interrupt the worst Thanksgiving dinner ever just to ask. . . since when is Barclay Goodrow a center? lol

Since he took 2000 faceoffs over the last 3 seasons in New York?

@Hodge Two questions:

1. Which Sharks d-men do you think Walman is better than?
2. Which UFA d-men would you prefer San Jose sign for less than 2x$3.4M?

I think this is a great trade for the Sharks and I'm glad we made it. My entire argument has been that it also makes sense for the Red Wings so there are probably no nefarious side deals involved. "Future considerations" means nothing.

But to answer your questions, Walman is probably better than Burroughs, Thrun and Mukhamadullin although the younger guys could easily surpass him this season. I don't want us to sign UFA defensemen in this price range. If we add a UFA defenseman it should be someone like Walker or Carrier who will likely cost 4+ in AAV and term.

 

[weastern bias]

Since he took 2000 faceoffs over the last 3 seasons in New York?

Well I'll be God damned, he's been consistently in the top-3 on the Rangers in FOs taken over the last 3 years

I still don't see him as a center and hope we don't use him that way, he's at his most effective when forchecking and playing like a wrecking ball

We DID spend half of last season playing Luke Kunin and William Eklund at center, but we also spent ALL of last season with David Quinn as our head coach, so hopefully Wario is smart enough not to make those same mistakes

We actually have decent enough center depth that we shouldn't need him there without injuries anyway

Granlund
Sturm
Dellandrea
Celebrini
Smith

All 5 of those guys are better options out the gate than Goodrow, I hope he gets to be a bottom-6 wing where he belongs

 

[Hodge]

Well I'll be God damned, he's been consistently in the top-3 on the Rangers in FOs taken over the last 3 years

I still don't see him as a center and hope we don't use him that way, he's at his most effective when forchecking and playing like a wrecking ball

We DID spend half of last season playing Luke Kunin and William Eklund at center, but we also spent ALL of last season with David Quinn as our head coach, so hopefully Wario is smart enough not to make those same mistakes

We actually have decent enough center depth that we shouldn't need him there without injuries anyway

Granlund
Sturm
Dellandrea
Celebrini
Smith

All 5 of those guys are better options out the gate than Goodrow, I hope he gets to be a bottom-6 wing where he belongs

Goodrow played center off and on when he was with the Sharks too. I think he'll be our 3C or 4C this year. I just don't see Smith or Dellandrea as NHL caliber centers at this point.

 

[weastern bias]

Goodrow played center off and on when he was with the Sharks too. I think he'll be our 3C or 4C this year. I just don't see Smith or Dellandrea as NHL caliber centers at this point.

He played center but he wasn't good at it, I just don't think his strength suit the position

Smith is likely more suited to wing as a rookie (and I have questions in the long run) but it seems like the organization is committed to developing him as a center

If Dellandrea isn't as good at center as Barclay Goodrow then I no longer like the trade, lol, I don't think it's a high bar to ask him to clear that one

 

[Pinkfloyd]

He played center but he wasn't good at it, I just don't think his strength suit the position

Smith is likely more suited to wing as a rookie (and I have questions in the long run) but it seems like the organization is committed to developing him as a center

If Dellandrea isn't as good at center as Barclay Goodrow then I no longer like the trade, lol, I don't think it's a high bar to ask him to clear that one

Dellandrea likely isn't as good at center as Barclay Goodrow but he's probably a better winger than Goodrow would be as a winger. I'd probably start Dellandrea as the 4th line RW and see how he clicks with people. I'd avoid playing him with Smith on the 3rd line unless chemistry develops there but that opportunity should be made available at certain points during preseason and the regular season.

 

[STL Shark]

To debunk the "nobody else was willing to do it" myth, Seravalli said a number of GMs were shocked at the deal and wish that they'd been called and offered the deal that Grier took. So contrary to what some believe, we were not the only willing party to "take on" Walman and the market price probably would have been lower if Yzerman shopped it around more.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

I really don’t care if Walman ever ends up being a great player or not, that 2nd rounder is another round in the chamber.

To debunk the "nobody else was willing to do it" myth, Seravalli said a number of GMs were shocked at the deal and wish that they'd been called and offered the deal that Grier took. So contrary to what some believe, we were not the only willing party to "take on" Walman and the market price probably would have been lower if Yzerman shopped it around more.

Which speaks to the developed or pre existing relationships MG has around the league. Good stuff.

 

[TealManV]

I personally don’t view Goodrow or Dellandrea as centers. Wingers can still take FO. And Goodrow can play the role of a “center” on the PK.

Grier mentioned wanting/hoping to acquire another center during his recent availability.

If the Sharks pass on bringing Kunin back (), then the 4th line should be set imo.

Goodrow-Sturm-Dellandrea

The only one of those three that should potentially sniff the 3rd line next season should be Dellandrea.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

I personally don’t view Goodrow or Dellandrea as centers. Wingers can still take FO. And Goodrow can play the role of a “center” on the PK.

Grier mentioned wanting/hoping to acquire another center during his recent availability.

If the Sharks pass on bringing Kunin back (), then the 4th line should be set imo.

Goodrow-Sturm-Dellandrea

The only one of those three that should potentially sniff the 3rd line next season should be Dellandrea.

I agree with just about everything here. I guess for me, I can see throughout the entirety of the season, you’ll probably still see quite a bit of line juggling. I don’t hate the idea of Dellandrea, Sturm or BG being rewarded with a bump up because of stellar play. Sturm has shown himself to be a pretty dynamic player against even the opposing teams top lines. He’s surprised me on many occasions. Sorry if I don’t speak proper English lol

 

[spintops]

To debunk the "nobody else was willing to do it" myth, Seravalli said a number of GMs were shocked at the deal and wish that they'd been called and offered the deal that Grier took. So contrary to what some believe, we were not the only willing party to "take on" Walman and the market price probably would have been lower if Yzerman shopped it around more.

You expect me to believe what GMs are saying over what Hodge thinks GMs are thinking ?

 

[Hodge]

To debunk the "nobody else was willing to do it" myth, Seravalli said a number of GMs were shocked at the deal and wish that they'd been called and offered the deal that Grier took. So contrary to what some believe, we were not the only willing party to "take on" Walman and the market price probably would have been lower if Yzerman shopped it around more.

When did I say we were the only team willing to take on Walman? I said no team was willing to take on Walman for free - or else he would have been waived.

Seravalli said some GMs were surprised at how significant the sweetener attached to Walman was. They weren't surprised that a sweetener was necessary to move him, which seems to have been a given.

 

[bullslugg]

I really don’t care if Walman ever ends up being a great player or not, that 2nd rounder is another round in the chamber.

Which speaks to the developed or pre existing relationships MG has around the league. Good stuff.

another arrow in the Quiver!

 

[Star Platinum]

@Hodge had one very strong argument...if Walman was so valuable, how can you explain this trade?

It's strange that the Sharks didn't trade a contract back. Per Holland, I suspect that Yzerman made this proposal and Grier rushed to say yes.

I mean obviously he's not so valuable. Otherwise, Detroit would make a deal and get a pick back. That's the easy to understand part of the trade. However, he's also not garbage on the ice. He's a guy who had a down season and was decent the year before. The hard part to understand is why include a 2nd round pick on top of that when you could have just waived him and no one really knows the answer to that part yet, if ever.

 

[Star Platinum]

It's a strong argument insofar that it has no immediate counter. But that can change with a single quote from Yzerman, and then his argument is worth nothing. If he had, say, backed up the opinion with secondary "proof", like game film or stats that proved what he was saying, then even if the foundation of his argument fails he can still rest on something.

It's puzzling Walman was given away for free + some, that's for sure. But we can't logically conclude the reason is because he is "one of the worst players in the NHL" on that one fact alone.

And even if he IS the single worst player in the league, we just got an extra second for taking him in a season we arent competing. So it's even more puzzling someone would dig their heels into an argument on the player's quality so much when it really is entirely secondary to the whole trade.

I don't think it's secondary. I think Walman is clearly better than the other defensemen on our team. I think of the second as being the cherry on top of that delicious sundae.

Smart move again.

We now have 1, 14, 33, 42 and 53.

As much as I'm happy to swing for whatever they think is worth it at those 5 picks, it's hard to ignore we now have plenty of collateral to move up, If I was Mr Grier, I'd be looking strongly at any guys we covet who might fall slightly near the top.

What would 14 + 33 be worth?
Knowing we have two more second rounders makes that 33 - a very good pick in its own right - movable to me.

Agreed. They are definitely positioning themselves to move up if the opportunity presents itself. Perhaps they already have a verbal agreement with a team that if the right player is available at your pick, we are willing to move this many picks.

In two days, we will find out the answer to that question.

 

[Star Platinum]

I never said it wasn't the correct move for the Sharks. It's a terrific move for us.

My argument is simply that it's not some bizarre lopsided trade that needs to be explained by the "future considerations" paying off. I mean, there are posters on the Red Wings board thinking the future considerations is us giving them Zetterlund for Christ's sake. Utter delusion.

Most front offices hated Dougie Hamilton for visiting museums on off days. I don't know anything about Walman's personality beyond the article I linked but if he is an introverted gamer I can see why NHL teams wouldn't want anything to do with him.

So add it all up and we have a 28 year old who has never played a full NHL season and has only made it to 60 games twice, coming off a terrible season, with potential off-ice chemistry issues, signed for $3.4M through 2026. Zero intangibles like physicality, fighting, leadership, etc. It's not difficult to understand why this asset is considered a cap dump in need of a sweetener. No conspiracy theories required.

If teams hated athletes for playing video games, there would be no professional sports

 

[Star Platinum]

I'd like to interrupt the worst Thanksgiving dinner ever just to ask. . . since when is Barclay Goodrow a center? lol

And man, JTR came in off the top rope on that one, need a Jim Ross call for posterity

 

[hockfan1991]

This trade reminds me of when DW traded Erhoff to Vancouver. It was a salary cap clearing trade where the entire value of the trade was on one side of the ledger. Erhoff + Lukowich for, “future considerations” personified, Patrick White and Daniel Rahimi. I’m pretty sure in isolation both Erhoff and Lukowich had some positive value (Lukowich obviously representing less than Erhoff), but because the Nucks had DW in a bind they got them both for the stiff price of clearing out some worthless contracts.

The point being that these cap clearing trades are sometimes not accurate reflections of player values; and that circumstance and leverage play an outsized influence.

When it was all said and done i believe it was a 2nd rounder they got for the deal.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

When it was all said and done i believe it was a 2nd rounder they got for the deal.

Ah, yeah. I forgot about the compensatory pick.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Ah, yeah. I forgot about the compensatory pick.

Chris Tierney

 

[Star Platinum]

To debunk the "nobody else was willing to do it" myth, Seravalli said a number of GMs were shocked at the deal and wish that they'd been called and offered the deal that Grier took. So contrary to what some believe, we were not the only willing party to "take on" Walman and the market price probably would have been lower if Yzerman shopped it around more.

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[Zarzh]

Look at the contracts Yzerman has handed out in Detroit. He lands far more on the mediocre GM scale than he does great GM. Showing that Tampa was a lot of luck that got better after he left.

Yzerman would be viewed as a pretty terrible GM if he didn't get lucky with Point, Kucherov, and to a lesser extent Vasi who shouldn't have been available. Or being able to salvage the Drouin pick.

Really bad process but managed to get results.