Confirmed with Link: Sharks acquire Cody Ceci and 2025 3rd for Ty Emberson

[Hodge]

No we wont

Anthony Mantha got a 2nd round pick at the deadline. It's not hard to do.

 

[coooldude]

Based on the reactions here and on the main boards thread, Grier either made a savvy trade that helps his rebuilding team in the short term and keeps adding draft assets, or he is the worst GM in the league and got absolutely fleeced.

Of course, both sides are right.

When this is the reaction, typically it means that the trade was within market and decently balanced. I'm guessing there was more interest to take Ceci as a cap dump than we will ever know, and so everyone screaming that Grier did Edmonton a favor or that he got fleeced is just not seeing the complete picture.

I still think it would have been better to get this done without sending an RD back.

 

[sampler]

Except the Oilers would be cap compliant day one with Broberg and Ceci on the roster and Kane on LTIR. Then what?

Edmonton has more leverage here than people like to pretend. Especially since, as devastating as losing Broberg for a 2nd would be, it's not like the Blues signed McDavid to an offer sheet.

Two key things:

1. It’s also true that the sharks don’t have a Monopoly on free cap space. I’m sure the flames ducks etc were in in the conversation. Maybe Anaheim said we’ll take him for a third. So the sharks threw in emberson. Who knows….

2. Emberson might be a contract number issue as you only get 50. Namely the sharks might have had to trade a contract to add Ceci and had to trade someone who could give the oilers D depth. That makes emberson the cheapest NHLish depth player we have (benning costs 600k more and has another year or Thrun but they really like Thrun). Could be part of the reason why he was included.

 

[Bizz]

Trades like this make me question Grier's ability to build a team around Celebrini and Eklund when the time comes.

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

I think thats fair in a normal scenario, but given the crunch Edmonton is under I imagine they have been holding out for someone to take this deal all week while teams demanded more. Would be nice for once to have a trade where we feel we got a great deal rather than just okay or bad.

Once you move past the sentimental aspect of it, it’s hard to feel anything other than great about the Hertl deal. We offloaded 5/6 of a poison pill onto our biggest rivals and upgraded two 3rds into 1sts in doing so.

 

[Hodge]

Based on the reactions here and on the main boards thread, Grier either made a savvy trade that helps his rebuilding team in the short term and keeps adding draft assets, or he is the worst GM in the league and got absolutely fleeced.

Of course, both sides are right.

When this is the reaction, typically it means that the trade was within market and decently balanced. I'm guessing there was more interest to take Ceci as a cap dump than we will ever know, and so everyone screaming that Grier did Edmonton a favor or that he got fleeced is just not seeing the complete picture.

I still think it would have been better to get this done without sending an RD back.

Just guessing but I don't think we would have gotten the 3rd without sending Emberson back.

On 32 Thoughts last week Friedman said the Oilers had opportunities to trade Ceci this summer and refrained.

That tells me Ceci has positive or at worst zero value. The offer sheets changed Edmonton's leverage but I seriously doubt we could have extracted a 3rd rounder without including Emberson. Ceci is simply not as bad as some people here make him out to be and his contract is fine.

 

[TheBeard]

Yeah Emberson hasn’t shown much but I’d take a 24 year old who looked solid over another mediocre vet when we have plenty of those.

I think you’re being very kind throwing around the word “mediocre” for some of the guys.

 

[coooldude]

Trades like this make me question Grier's ability to build a team around Celebrini and Eklund when the time comes.

No need to get dramatic. Objective parties disagree with you that the EK and Hertl deal were Grier getting fleeced. In fact a lot of objective parties think they were great trades for SJ. And those trades matter a lot more than this kind of move or, like, the Goodrow claim. And there's a lot more to building a contender than just making trades, and I for one think the roster this year looks far better than last year already. Given what he's working with, no need to be dramatic about Grier yet. Still have a few years before you can really judge the whole body of work IMHO.

 

[sampler]

this deal is just nothing important. “Grier got fleeced…”whatever. it’s minor, mostly irrelevant deal.

Say we get a 4th at the deadline. Then it’s a third and a fourth for emberson and some unused cap space. Wooow!! Huge deal!

This is not like the Meier, Hertl, ek deals. This is even smaller than Walman. It’s not far from ohktiuk deal. Remember that one? Yeah, me neither.

 

[coooldude]

Just guessing but I don't think we would have gotten the 3rd without sending Emberson back.

On 32 Thoughts last week Friedman said the Oilers had opportunities to trade Ceci this summer and refrained.

That tells me Ceci has positive or at worst zero value. The offer sheets changed Edmonton's leverage but I seriously doubt we could have extracted a 3rd rounder without including Emberson. Ceci is simply not as bad as some people here make him out to be and his contract is fine.

I suspect you're right, but it would have been awesome to move e.g. Bords instead. Maybe that was on the table before they traded for the Russian from VAN.

 

[Hodge]

I suspect you're right, but it would have been awesome to move e.g. Bords instead. Maybe that was on the table before they traded for the Russian from VAN.

If Grier can now turn around and trade Bords and a 2nd for Askarov that would cap a perfect offseason.

 

[Sharksfan66]

It's ok everyone, we won't even miss Emberson when we pick up Fabbro for Bordeleau.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

No need to get dramatic. Objective parties disagree with you that the EK and Hertl deal were Grier getting fleeced. In fact a lot of objective parties think they were great trades for SJ. And those trades matter a lot more than this kind of move or, like, the Goodrow claim. And there's a lot more to building a contender than just making trades, and I for one think the roster this year looks far better than last year already. Given what he's working with, no need to be dramatic about Grier yet. Still have a few years before you can really judge the whole body of work IMHO.

To be fair Griers trade prowess is dog shit at best but atleast it’s not flaming dog shit. His draft game imo is damn near elite which makes up for that trade shortcoming, He is building a pretty damn good future core in San Jose but I hope his trade and free agent signing at least gets as half or even a 3rd as good as his drafting prowess

 

[Bizz]

We traded a younger, better, and cheaper Defenseman for a literal Cap Dump who is older and was hated by the last 3 fanbases he's played for. For what, a Draft Pick that has a less than 4% chance of becoming an NHLer? Ceci is bad. Like Roman Polak bad. And we can't even flip him at the deadline because teams will want the Sharks to retain on him and we don't have slots left because of some of Grier's previous bonehead moves.

This isn't a "nothing trade", this is a god damn disaster.

 

[coooldude]

To be fair Griers trade prowess is dog shit at best but atleast it’s not flaming dog shit. His draft game imo is damn near elite which makes up for that trade shortcoming, He is building a pretty damn good future core in San Jose but I hope his trade and free agent signing at least gets as half or even a 3rd as good as his drafting prowess

To be fair, not everyone agrees with his trade prowess being dog shit. I think his biggest trades have been highly positive moves. Many of the smaller trades haven't looked as good (to me) or there are very mixed opinions but your opinion is just that, it's not fact.

You are right that it is pretty factual that his draft team has evaluated well for two seasons.

 

[Anomie2029]

It's one of those deals that I don't think it really makes sense for the Sharks, but it's not going to hurt.
Ceci is not as bad as he was at the Sens, his money isn't ridiculously high and it's one year.

I just think the Sharks should have got more than a 3rd especially when you're adding Emberson, who I thought was one of the better Sharks Dman (not a lot of choice) when he played. Oilers had not position to leverage, and if another team was willing to make that deal - then let them.

 

[Hodge]

Replacing Burroughs, Addison and Okhotiuk with Ceci, Walman and a healthy Benning is a massive upgrade no matter how you slice it.

That's without even factoring in any improvements from Thrun and Mukhamadullin.

 

[hohosaregood]

So guess we got something like:
Walman-Ceci
Ferraro-Benning(?)
Mukh-Thrun
Vlasic-Rutta

That's less bad than last year I guess.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

To be fair, not everyone agrees with his trade prowess being dog shit. I think his biggest trades have been highly positive moves. Many of the smaller trades haven't looked as good (to me) or there are very mixed opinions but your opinion is just that, it's not fact.

You are right that it is pretty factual that his draft team has evaluated well for two seasons.

I’d say it’s 60/40 that the opinion on his trade prowess is in fact dogshit at all levels. Burns trade negative 33% retention over 3 years and only a 3rd to show for it, Timo trade essentially Musty and Zetts, so a 3rd liner and maybe a top 6 winger. Muk is projecting to be another season in the AHL and at best a #4 defenseman.(this still requires time but for the immediate future not so good) EK trade should’ve been zero conditions on the first rounder, Hertl trade still to soon but objectively you’d be hard pressed to say it’s atleast not fair ish. The majority of the pundits generally have opined Grier has lost the majority of his trades

I just hope it gets better

 

[Bizz]

deleted. thought Musty was drafted higher.

 

[fasterthanlight]

Honestly, having an NHL defenseman who put up 20m a night on an expiring deal seems fine, even if it's ceci

 

[coooldude]

I’d say it’s 60/40 that the opinion on his trade prowess is in fact dogshit at all levels. Burns trade negative 33% retention over 3 years and only a 3rd to show for it, Timo trade essentially Musty and Zetts, so a 3rd liner and maybe a top 6 winger. Muk is projecting to be another season in the AHL and at best a #4 defenseman.(this still requires time but for the immediate future not so good) EK trade should’ve been zero conditions on the first rounder, Hertl trade still to soon but objectively you’d be hard pressed to say it’s atleast not fair ish. The majority of the pundits generally have opined Grier has lost the majority of his trades

I just hope it gets better

You, Bizz, themelkman, and maybe one or two others are highly vocal about hating Grier's trades.

I fail to see how that tabs out to "60/40 agree Grier is dog shit."

It's easy to write a sentence like this but it doesn't make it true: "the majority of pundits generally have opined Grier has lost the majority of his trades." Are the pundits in the room with us?

I'll happily look at any polls or data you have that contradicts. As it is, y'all are being a little overdramatic about this. At the very least, the recent Athletic fan poll disagrees with you.

 

[Tw1ster]

Both the Meier and EK65 trades became better than they were projected to thanks to the Devils and Penguins sucking. Both of those picks could've very easily been in the 21-30 range. Relying on other teams to suck requires insane luck and that's not something an NHL GM should be relying on.

The Devils pick was in the 21-30 range, so I’m not sure there was much luck with how that trade turned out. The Pens pick turning out better wasn’t really luck either. Grier like many probably saw the Penguins would very likely not be a good team and made the trade with the expectation they’d probably end up with a top 15 pick which they did . I think Grier did well on both trades and probably deserves a bit more credit than simply lucking out when things turn out the way he had probably planned

 

[Bizz]

The Devils pick was in the 21-30 range, so I’m not sure there was much luck with how that trade turned out. The Pens pick turning out better wasn’t really luck either. Grier like many probably saw the Penguins would very likely not be a good team and made the trade with the expectation they’d probably end up with a top 15 pick which they did . I think Grier did well on both trades and probably deserves a bit more credit than simply lucking out when things turn out the way he had probably planned

yeah I know, I thought Musty was like 16th OA that year. But the Penguins were considered contenders after the EK65 trade. There's no way he could've expected to land the 14th with it.

 

[ChompChomp]

An interesting page from THN 2012 draft preview guide:

https://preview.redd.it/alihsygczfid1.jpg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=821c12bed2189a3b69e2ee0a97a3aeb0f72c1acb

The scout who said he was more slanted to offense than defense shouldn't be a scout lmao.