Prospect Info: Shane Wright (Round 1, Pick #4, 2022 draft)

[majormajor]

I like Wright I think he's going to be great but to have him on the PP when there are so many more deserving players is a slap in the face. Bura,Beniers,Schwartz,Eberle,Sprong,Wennberg,McCann, Bjorkstarnd and Gourde are the top 9 F for PP1 and PP2 in my books even Donato can get consideration when he's on,so...

I was talking about Wright's ceiling and floor. Wright's prime is years away and the current depth chart is irrelevant.

Though for the record I do think Wright would be a better PP player right now than about half the players you listed.

Normally I of the same mindset,but with Wirght who has been treated different his entire Junior career, I feel it is wise to play it a little cautious.

He was a Exemption rule phenom, and he seems to be a really good kid with his head on right, but you can't ignore the fact that he had different expectations put on him (and he probably put different expectations on himself), so I don't think we should ignore that he has been treated differently than 99% of prospects, and therefore I think Communication is the key. His agent wants him in the NHL for the commission and is likely talking in one ear. I think it is important that you want a hungry Shane Wright, and not an angry Shane Wright.

I think if you want to best develop a player and keep them hungry then you stop any special treatment immediately.

 

[Irie]

I think if you want to best develop a player and keep them hungry then you stop any special treatment immediately.

I will preface this argument with the fact that I agree.

Unfortunately that ship has sailed. Wright was given special treatment the moment he was not retunred to Junior and the situation has now been drawn out over a quarter of a season.

It wasn't like Wright stood out in camp. He was kept up based solely on pedigree. Now you are in a different situation and I think it is important that Wright sees the logic and gets on board with whatever path they choose for him.

 

[ottsabrefan]

That is good to know.

I thought that if he was in the NHL and not coming from Junior that the transfer agreement would not be an issue, as he is not transferring from Juniors to the AHL if he has been in the NHL, and the wording of the transfer agreement is quite ambiguous.

I can't imagine that the leagues won't modify the agreement for the cancelled OHL season. If they didn't, it would only take one lawsuit to likely upend the tradition. 18 year old athletes being prevented from working and earning a living in a third league feels like an easy win for a legal firm. Arguments based on Hockey rules and Canadian tradition likely aren't enough to win in today's legal environment outside of Canada.

I’m not a lawyer but that agreement is pretty rock solid between the CHL and NHL. You might be able to argue whether the season that the player did not get any experience should count as experience. It seems more logical to me that it would not count, since the idea is that players that have actually played in the league for four years (ie paid their dues, got enough OHL experience) get to move on. Wright has only played two seasons this far, soon to be three if he gets sent back.

But, it will be interesting to see. I wouldn’t be surprised one way or the other.

I think Wright will be on the Kraken next year regardless.

 

[Irie]

I’m not a lawyer but that agreement is pretty rock solid between the CHL and NHL. You might be able to argue whether the season that the player did not get any experience should count as experience. It seems more logical to me that it would not count, since the idea is that players that have actually played in the league for four years (ie paid their dues, got enough OHL experience) get to move on. Wright has only played two seasons this far, soon to be three if he gets sent back.

But, it will be interesting to see. I wouldn’t be surprised one way or the other.

I think Wright will be on the Kraken next year regardless.

Aye, but the agreement is really to keep the talent in the CHL to maintain fan draw and not lose all their top talent to the AHL, as opposed to a means to protect player development.

Seeing as the OHL season didn't happen, that is no fault of the players, so the OHL can't really hold the players hostage for the extra year just because they didn't have any games, especially since the WHL and the Q did.

With the US supreme court ruling on the NCAA anti-trust case, I think it is only a matter of time before a case is brought against the NHL for 18 and 19 year old CHL players to be able to play and earn a living in the AHL.

With the agreement only affecting prospects from the CHL, while European, NCAA, and US development league players are all free to play in the AHL as 18 year olds, it would be a really difficult case to defend, as they are excluding a group and restricting their ability to earn a living as adults. I just can't see a court not dissolving it on that basis.

 

[ottsabrefan]

Aye, but the agreement is really to keep the talent in the CHL to maintain fan draw and not lose all their top talent to the AHL, as opposed to a means to protect player development.

Seeing as the OHL season didn't happen, that is no fault of the players, so the OHL can't really hold the players hostage for the extra year just because they didn't have any games, especially since the WHL and the Q did.

With the US supreme court ruling on the NCAA anti-trust case, I think it is only a matter of time before a case is brought against the NHL for 18 and 19 year old CHL players to be able to play and earn a living in the AHL.

With the agreement only affecting prospects from the CHL, while European, NCAA, and US development league players are all free to play in the AHL as 18 year olds, it would be a really difficult case to defend, as they are excluding a group and restricting their ability to earn a living as adults. I just can't see a court not dissolving it on that basis.

You have some solid points, and it may happen at some point, but is it worth the fight to get into the AHL, which is generally known as a bit of a goon league just to get the extra $80k or whatever it is? I could see fighting to get into the NHL, for sure, but that option is still available. Even with an extra year of junior it can significantly reduce the time you need to play in the AHL in terms of development. The only plus I really see (though it may be substantial), is the option to be called up mid-season. In junior, once you are down, you are down.

And in terms of Wright, I can’t see a legal battle demanding he go to the AHL. I’m sure he simply wants to make the NHL next year. But, they may decide that COVID year counts.

You are right the agreement is to protect the CHL and it’s talent, but as a Fronts fan I can tell you I didn’t pay one dime to the team to see Wright two years ago during the cancelled season, so the spirit of the agreement wouldn’t be held up if they granted Wright an extra year of experience that didn’t occur.

I’m sure it has already been decided how that year counts, so it would be interesting to know what the decision was.

 

[Irie]

You have some solid points, and it may happen at some point, but is it worth the fight to get into the AHL, which is generally known as a bit of a goon league just to get the extra $80k or whatever it is? I could see fighting to get into the NHL, for sure, but that option is still available. Even with an extra year of junior it can significantly reduce the time you need to play in the AHL in terms of development. The only plus I really see (though it may be substantial), is the option to be called up mid-season. In junior, once you are down, you are down.

And in terms of Wright, I can’t see a legal battle demanding he go to the AHL. I’m sure he simply wants to make the NHL next year. But, they may decide that COVID year counts.

You are right the agreement is to protect the CHL and it’s talent, but as a Fronts fan I can tell you I didn’t pay one dime to the team to see Wright two years ago during the cancelled season, so the spirit of the agreement wouldn’t be held up if they granted Wright an extra year of experience that didn’t occur.

I’m sure it has already been decided how that year counts, so it would be interesting to know what the decision was.

I think one of the reasons it hasn't been challenged is because the players it mostly effects are the top tier first round talents, and they often benefit from the rule more than it hurts them by guaranteeing some of them and their agents the 1 million dollar salary and commission instead of the 60-80k.

But the change in the landscape of more top Canadian kids entering the NCAA might hurt the CHL more than anything in the near future. As it stands, I think the current agreement was extended for ten years a couple of years ago, but it wouldn't surprise me if both sides decide to renegotiate it before that extension expires.

 

[gstommylee]

Aye, but the agreement is really to keep the talent in the CHL to maintain fan draw and not lose all their top talent to the AHL, as opposed to a means to protect player development.

Seeing as the OHL season didn't happen, that is no fault of the players, so the OHL can't really hold the players hostage for the extra year just because they didn't have any games, especially since the WHL and the Q did.

With the US supreme court ruling on the NCAA anti-trust case, I think it is only a matter of time before a case is brought against the NHL for 18 and 19 year old CHL players to be able to play and earn a living in the AHL.

With the agreement only affecting prospects from the CHL, while European, NCAA, and US development league players are all free to play in the AHL as 18 year olds, it would be a really difficult case to defend, as they are excluding a group and restricting their ability to earn a living as adults. I just can't see a court not dissolving it on that basis.

Does the player have to play in the CHL or was he able to play elsewhere? That question is going to be brought up. DId the player/parents knew signing that CHL contract that he couldn't play in the AHL until he's 20 or has 4 years of CHL season. The player isn't forced to play in the CHL as if there was no options. The player choose to play in the CHL. Beniers didn't play in the CHL he was in the US players development program for example. Power did not play in the CHL he played elsewhere.

The US courts already ruled in a similar argument in an anti-trust case against MLS and that group suing lost cause there was alternate soccer leagues in the world for the players to play soccer in. This is the same with the CHL, there are alternate hockey league at their age group age range where the players can play. Young hockey players aren't forced against their will to.

Btw most of the CHL teams are in canada not the US. So its going to be hard to enforce a US ruling on teams that aren't based in the US. So said person would have to sue the CHL in both countries and its going to be difficult for the group suing gets that agreement thrown out.

Also the player/parents have to know about that restriction before signing their CHL contract and that legal contract with the club clearly states he can only play in the NHL if drafted/signed as an UFA unless he has 4 years of jr major season or ages out. It would be a different matter if the CHL tries to enforce that and its not in writing with each CHL's player's CHL contract and if player/parent doesnt like that restriction they don't have to play in the CHL of their region's Jr major league and can play elsewhere. Again no one is forcing the player to play in the CHL.

If there was a time and place to sue the CHL over that agreement it would been right when that agreement first happened. It didn't happen as far as i know.

 

[Irie]

Does the player have to play in the CHL or was he able to play elsewhere? That question is going to be brought up. DId the player/parents knew signing that CHL contract that he couldn't play in the AHL until he's 20 or has 4 years of CHL season. The player isn't forced to play in the CHL as if there was no options. The player choose to play in the CHL. Beniers didn't play in the CHL he was in the US players development program for example. Power did not play in the CHL he played elsewhere.

The US courts already ruled in a similar argument in an anti-trust case against MLS and that group suing lost cause there was alternate soccer leagues in the world for the players to play soccer in. This is the same with the CHL, there are alternate hockey league at their age group age range where the players can play. Young hockey players aren't forced against their will to.

Btw most of the CHL teams are in canada not the US. So its going to be hard to enforce a US ruling on teams that aren't based in the US. So said person would have to sue the CHL in both countries and its going to be difficult for the group suing gets that agreement thrown out.

Also the player/parents have to know about that restriction before signing their CHL contract and that legal contract with the club clearly states he can only play in the NHL if drafted/signed as an UFA unless he has 4 years of jr major season or ages out. It would be a different matter if the CHL tries to enforce that and its not in writing with each CHL's player's CHL contract and if player/parent doesnt like that restriction they don't have to play in the CHL of their region's Jr major league and can play elsewhere. Again no one is forcing the player to play in the CHL.

If there was a time and place to sue the CHL over that agreement it would been right when that agreement first happened. It didn't happen as far as i know.

I am not familiar with soccer or the ins and outs of their development system, but are some adults who's draft rights are owned my MLS teams prevented from playing in other leagues that would pay them and forced to play without adequate compensation, while others have no restrictions?

You see, it isn't about the right to choose development leagues, but restrictions once drafted from playing as an adult and earning a living for one group of players, but not the rest.

*edit* - Also, any player not in the CHL at the exact moment of their drafting, can then play in the CHL at 18 or 19 and the rules do not apply to them. Seems like a huge legal problem if challenged to me.

 

[Price is Wright]

Kraken's Shane Wright: Back from conditioning

Kraken's Shane Wright: Back from conditioning

www.cbssports.com

 

[Gniwder]

*edit* - Also, any player not in the CHL at the exact moment of their drafting, can then play in the CHL at 18 or 19 and the rules do not apply to them. Seems like a huge legal problem if challenged to me.

The CHL team also has to own the player's rights. Zadina was drafted out of QMJHL but played in the AHL the year after the draft because he was on loan from a Czech club

 

[gstommylee]

 

[Sad People]

Has it already been 2 weeks?

 

[Irie]

Has it already been 2 weeks?

5 games, which was the other limit.

 

[ottsabrefan]

I think one of the reasons it hasn't been challenged is because the players it mostly effects are the top tier first round talents, and they often benefit from the rule more than it hurts them by guaranteeing some of them and their agents the 1 million dollar salary and commission instead of the 60-80k.

But the change in the landscape of more top Canadian kids entering the NCAA might hurt the CHL more than anything in the near future. As it stands, I think the current agreement was extended for ten years a couple of years ago, but it wouldn't surprise me if both sides decide to renegotiate it before that extension expires.

Yeah, I could see some sort of exemption in the future. In fact that was discussed in the OHL board recently. That being said, it really only affects a handful of players each year. Very few 18/19 year olds are ready to handle the physicality of the AHL, and are talented enough to do so as well (and also can’t make the NHL clean)

 

[Jeffrey Pedler]

The CHL team also has to own the player's rights. Zadina was drafted out of QMJHL but played in the AHL the year after the draft because he was on loan from a Czech club

Same with Liljegren and Sandin from the Leafs. They were on loan to the OHL, from the Sweedish League and were able play in AHL as soon as they were drafted

 

[gstommylee]

 

[themilosh]

I am not familiar with soccer or the ins and outs of their development system, but are some adults who's draft rights are owned my MLS teams prevented from playing in other leagues that would pay them and forced to play without adequate compensation, while others have no restrictions?

You see, it isn't about the right to choose development leagues, but restrictions once drafted from playing as an adult and earning a living for one group of players, but not the rest.

*edit* - Also, any player not in the CHL at the exact moment of their drafting, can then play in the CHL at 18 or 19 and the rules do not apply to them. Seems like a huge legal problem if challenged to me.

Soccer (globally) is in essence a free market economy, unlike what we are used to here in NA with the 5 major sports.

Simplified example.

Player A gets signed to TFC Academy at 16. He no longer plays for his local club. Instead he is now being professionally trained. This development process costs a lot of money and a considerable investment is made by "Toronto FC", in return the player will sign a contract over their rights.. in ~3 years that 16yo has been developed and "if" amazing might start playing with the big club by 20 (with stints in the CANMNT u17 u23 squad).

After 1 year this player is way too good for MLS.. so the big(ger) boys come knocking from England, let's say West Ham.
Now, West Ham wants to skip all the developing process and spot the TFC phenom right into their starting XI.

What value is this transaction? Millions, thousands? The internal marketplace is there.

In our example, West Ham owes TFC fir their development, AND the MLS who will be losing a marketable player..

In US sports, the player stays inside the market (a trade for example like RW3 going to Denver)..

Having grown up in MTL it really sucks being a "development club" like my Expos basically were (or the Oakland As) save for our elite 1994 then strike, every time we developed a superstar (ie. pedro martinez) the big boys NYY BOS come knocking. Bye bye.

The NHL hard cap allows all NHL teams to be competitive. It is truly a display of the organization's business and development/scouting programs that win Cups.

NFL very similar.... ive been a huge Seahawk fan since 1979, and although we sucked for decades (kc, den, oak, stl division of death), it was never because we were losing prospects.. we sucked at drafting= rick mirer ex.

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

Have to say a bit of a surprise. But the best place for Wright to get loads of playing time and tune himself up for regular icetime when he gets back to Seattle after the World Juniors where I'm sure he will blow the competition away!

 

[Irie]

Soccer (globally) is in essence a free market economy, unlike what we are used to here in NA with the 5 major sports.

Simplified example.

Player A gets signed to TFC Academy at 16. He no longer plays for his local club. Instead he is now being professionally trained. This development process costs a lot of money and a considerable investment is made by "Toronto FC", in return the player will sign a contract over their rights.. in ~3 years that 16yo has been developed and "if" amazing might start playing with the big club by 20 (with stints in the CANMNT u17 u23 squad).

After 1 year this player is way too good for MLS.. so the big(ger) boys come knocking from England, let's say West Ham.
Now, West Ham wants to skip all the developing process and spot the TFC phenom right into their starting XI.

What value is this transaction? Millions, thousands? The internal marketplace is there.

In our example, West Ham owes TFC fir their development, AND the MLS who will be losing a marketable player..

In US sports, the player stays inside the market (a trade for example like RW3 going to Denver)..

Having grown up in MTL it really sucks being a "development club" like my Expos basically were (or the Oakland As) save for our elite 1994 then strike, every time we developed a superstar (ie. pedro martinez) the big boys NYY BOS come knocking. Bye bye.

The NHL hard cap allows all NHL teams to be competitive. It is truly a display of the organization's business and development/scouting programs that win Cups.

NFL very similar.... ive been a huge Seahawk fan since 1979, and although we sucked for decades (kc, den, oak, stl division of death), it was never because we were losing prospects.. we sucked at drafting= rick mirer ex.

Thanks for the Soccer development primer.

The issue isn't so much the kids are playing as adults and not geting paid, as it is that only SOME of he kids are limited to this rule.

Are some 19 year old prospects of MLS teams free to play in leagues that pay them living wages while others are bound to rules that prevent them from earning money?

When a league/agreement imposes different rules on players, that is where the legal challenges start to rise up and are hard to defend.

 

[Gniwder]

Have to say a bit of a surprise. But the best place for Wright to get loads of playing time and tune himself up for regular icetime when he gets back to Seattle after the World Juniors where I'm sure he will blow the competition away!

Wright needs to play against pros, he looked good last game, so I'm surprised as well.

If they want him to dominate kids his age they should've just left him in juniors. The dichotomy between how the organization is treating Shane vs Matty is a bit strange, even if Shane is coming off his draft year whereas Matty was D+1.

Hakstol still has that college hockey mentality about him, I'll be happy when he's gone.

 

[themilosh]

Wright needs to play against pros, he looked good last game, so I'm surprised as well.

If they want him to dominate kids his age they should've just left him in juniors. The dichotomy between how the organization is treating Shane vs Matty is a bit strange, even if Shane is coming off his draft year whereas Matty was D+1.

Hakstol still has that college hockey mentality about him, I'll be happy when he's gone.

the issue is that Matty was in NCAA which is better than the OHL with older and stronger competition - the perfect place to let kids develop. Once they are ready, be it D+1, +2, +3 etc... they will get called/signed.

the OHL is junior (precursor), but IMO antiquated. I have always been a huge fan of NCAA and Scholastic pathway, as the current US development system, U18 National Team playing in USHL is so much better.. not to mention all the other great players who wont make the NHL will at least get a scholarship and education to fall back on.

 

[Gniwder]

the issue is that Matty was in NCAA which is better than the OHL with older and stronger competition - the perfect place to let kids develop. Once they are ready, be it D+1, +2, +3 etc... they will get called/signed.

the OHL is junior (precursor), but IMO antiquated. I have always been a huge fan of NCAA and Scholastic pathway, as the current US development system, U18 National Team playing in USHL is so much better.. not to mention all the other great players who wont make the NHL will at least get a scholarship and education to fall back on.

If you take a kid from the OHL and put him directly into the NHL, there's gonna be a learning curve, and the team has to accept that. You don't waste an ELC slide to sit a kid on the bench. They have 2 more games to decide.

BTW, historically college was the less preferred pathway for both players and the team. For the team, there's a chance that the kid doesn't sign or pulls a Fox move. For the player, there actually was a lower level of competition until recently because anyone that has played in the CHL or SHL is not eligible to play in the NCAA.

The NCAA is a pathway for American hockey players and kids from junior B. It's always been a less physical league where no fighting is allowed at all. You don't have to explain it to me, I had Cornell season tickets 3 decades ago.

 

[Irie]

Wright needs to play against pros, he looked good last game, so I'm surprised as well.

If they want him to dominate kids his age they should've just left him in juniors. The dichotomy between how the organization is treating Shane vs Matty is a bit strange, even if Shane is coming off his draft year whereas Matty was D+1.

Hakstol still has that college hockey mentality about him, I'll be happy when he's gone.

Curious what you saw in his game that made you feel that way.

I watched 3 of his AHL games, and other than finding open areas and having a phenomenal shot, (like he showed in the Montreal game), I think he was invisible for most of the games. I am not sure he won a single puck battle, and spent most of his shifts following the puck around instead of anticipating where it was going to be.

He obviously can score and will likely have a great career, but my concern is with his ability to read the play and his decisions with the puck. He is treating it like it is a hot potato. As soon as it is on his tape, he is looking to dish or dump it. I am not certain he is going to learn to control space and be the line driver I think this team needs him to become with 12 seconds of possession time per game in the NHL as fast as he could in lower leagues.

Think about how Matty came into the league and he wanted the puck on his stick - that is what differentiates superstars from the pacl. eniers honed that skill in teh USHL and two seasons in college against lesser competition with more time. I want to see some of that with Wright. I Understand that has not really been the strength of his game in juniors, and I think that is why down the stretch last season in juniors you saw him less effective. He is not in control of the game, and relies on linemates more than a star should.

Maybe he never develops that part of his game, and he is just a one trick pony offensively with a solid two-way game, but i can't help but feel that if he would embrace that part of the game right now against slower competition that he could develop into so much more eventually at the NHL level.

 

[Gniwder]

Curious what you saw in his game that made you feel that way.

I watched 3 of his AHL games, and other than finding open areas and having a phenomenal shot, (like he showed in the Montreal game), I think he was invisible for most of the games. I am not sure he won a single puck battle, and spent most of his shifts following the puck around instead of anticipating where it was going to be.

He obviously can score and will likely have a great career, but my concern is with his ability to read the play and his decisions with the puck. He is treating it like it is a hot potato. As soon as it is on his tape, he is looking to dish or dump it. I am not certain he is going to learn to control space and be the line driver I think this team needs him to become with 12 seconds of possession time per game in the NHL as fast as he could in lower leagues.

Think about how Matty came into the league and he wanted the puck on his stick - that is what differentiates superstars from the pacl. eniers honed that skill in teh USHL and two seasons in college against lesser competition with more time. I want to see some of that with Wright. I Understand that has not really been the strength of his game in juniors, and I think that is why down the stretch last season in juniors you saw him less effective. He is not in control of the game, and relies on linemates more than a star should.

Maybe he never develops that part of his game, and he is just a one trick pony offensively with a solid two-way game, but i can't help but feel that if he would embrace that part of the game right now against slower competition that he could develop into so much more eventually at the NHL level.

I didn't watch any of his AHL games, but technically speaking the AHL is a pro league.

I did notice he didn't have puck possession time, but I disagree about not anticipating the puck. At least in the offensive zone, he was in the right place, even if the rebound or pass didn't get to him. Jason Robertson is the same way, doesn't handle the puck much but scores a ton.

If the team wants a puck handler, then it's back to the OHL for him because there's no point in wasting a slide to sit him on the bench. Not sure how much of that will transfer to a pro league since OHL defensemen leave so much time and space.

 

[Irie]

I didn't watch any of his AHL games, but technically speaking the AHL is a pro league.

Yes, it.is a pro league, but Wright is not eligible for even another conditioning stint in the AHL until the OHL season is over.

I did notice he didn't have puck possession time, but I disagree about not anticipating the puck. At least in the offensive zone, he was in the right place, even if the rebound or pass didn't get to him. Jason Robertson is the same way, doesn't handle the puck much but scores a ton.

Go back one page in this thread, there are links to two of Wright's AHL games (all shifts - post 584).

In the offensive zone, I agree that the kid can find the open shooting lane and has a knack for scoring. He can do that in the NHL now but the rest of his game is so far behind other options on this team. The Kraken are not better paying Wright with Gourde over Tanev in terms of overall effectiveness over a full game when looking at all three zones.

Wright is never going to be a primary puck possession player, but if he is going to be an elite center, I feel it would be a good idea to break him of the urge to move the pick the moment it is on his stick.

Ithe team wants a puck handler, then it's back to the OHL for him because there's no point in wasting a slide to sit him on the bench. Not sure how much of that will transfer to a pro league since OHL defensemen leave so much time and space

I don't think Francis is concerned about burning a year of ELC, as long as he doesn't burn the year toward his UFA eligibility.