Shanahan's biggest gaffe shows he's out of touch: revisiting the "Discounts" quote

[mikeyz]

The problem can be seen as Shanahan being terribly gullible due to his naivety.

When these players all spoke glowingly about how much they loved playing here in Toronto and seeing as how the city opened their hearts and their arms embracing them, cheering every move and that they never want to leave, it would be easy to conclude that the players were being honest and so would be reasonable in negotiations.

The first guy holds out but finally signs at the 11th hour albeit to a contract that is anything but a discount and was considered a trifle rich at the time. Foul ball Strike one! Dumbass.

After that debacle, Dumbass tells the hometown kid he's not sure he has 9m in the budget but that he would be in touch. He wasn't. Foul ball Strike two!

Then a mere month later, quite quickly but surreptitiously he walks the other kid right to UFA at a substantially higher number than the 9m he just couldn't find for Mitch. Foul ball 0-2

That contract if you might remember was viewed around the league as a huge mistake. The length first of all was vividly team unfriendly and the AAV much too high for zero playoff wins. Had the young Leaf had a nice shiny ring then maybe the number and structure could have been seen as somewhat palatable. As it was a swinging strike three and yer out.

Dumbass then tells Marner the Leafs are offering 8x8, Marner somewhat bewildered asks what happened to the 9? And things went downhill from there. Infield fly rule applies 2 out!

Dumbass' own contract comes up, he makes it public, lies to the press and scapegoats his family needing more time for the kids etc etc....BUT! another 2m might convince him to sign and I'll just have to see them when I can.

Slow roller to first, 3 up three down. The train leaves for Pittsburgh at 9:30 am, see ya dumbass, sadly the smell lingers on.

It is really truly unbelievable how badly he completely f***** this team during his tenure here. We knew it was going to take years to recover from the damage that he did and now we're beginning to see "the fruits of his labor" during his time here. Specifically last year and this coming season.

Thank God he got greedy and tried to take Shanahan's job. Because God only knows how much more damage he would have done had he stayed.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

Can't do it, will never make it to at least the cup finals without a perfect cap allocation.

Nurse? Underpaid.

The 6 million in dead cap Florida had in 2023? A rounding error.

The 1.25 Florida had in dead cap in 2024? Who cares.

Every single team has mismanaged cap hits somewhere, but if you put enough exclamation marks that may change it.

I mean you kind of just showed that a little salary could be the difference. Florida went from 6 to 1.25M in dead cap and it was enough to get them the extra win for the cup. Nurse is overpaid and Edmonton missed the cup by one win. The small numbers matter and ours aren't small either.

This season is literally a write off barring numerous miracles happening in succession. That leaves 3 more years of Matthews in some kind of prime and then our lack of futures will really start to show their teeth. 3 year window starting in 2025-26 season or this generation of Leafs will be a failure. We move assets around for 5+ years until we (hopefully) convince management to rebuild again or remain stuck in purgatory selling jerseys because our single digit IQ fanbase laps it up like a dog in heat.

 

[sittler rules!!!]

As soon as they brought in Tavares they should have traded Kadri, and one of Nylander or Marner, for a couole stud defensemen including a legit 1RHD on a long term deal.

here's a thought. they did not need taveras, they already had a quality centre in kadri at 4.5 mill

 

[notbias]

I mean you kind of just showed that a little salary could be the difference. Florida went from 6 to 1.25M in dead cap and it was enough to get them the extra win for the cup. Nurse is overpaid and Edmonton missed the cup by one win. The small numbers matter and ours aren't small either.

This season is literally a write off barring numerous miracles happening in succession. That leaves 3 more years of Matthews in some kind of prime and then our lack of futures will really start to show their teeth. 3 year window starting in 2025-26 season or this generation of Leafs will be a failure. We move assets around for 5+ years until we (hopefully) convince management to rebuild again or remain stuck in purgatory selling jerseys because our single digit IQ fanbase laps it up like a dog in heat.

Predict the cup winner this year... who has the least amount of wasted cap? This is the criteria you seem to have.

I assume Carolina has been that team for a while but they can't seem to do it, or maybe there is someone else who you think is so efficient with the cap that they are favourites every year to win.

Why watch if you know the outcome? It seems silly and it seems like something a single-digit IQ fan would do.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

here's a thought. they did not need taveras, they already had a quality centre in kadri at 4.5 mill

That's why I said signing Tavares was his second biggest mistake in my original comment.

 

[ToneDog]

here's a thought. they did not need taveras, they already had a quality centre in kadri at 4.5 mill

They bet everything on the three wrong horses.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

How would that have worked? Neither Buffalo (last place) nor Arizona (2nd last) won the lottery.

A year later the Leafs tanked for Matthews and won did they not?

Or are we just gonna ignore that fact?

 

[Dekes For Days]

A year later the Leafs tanked for Matthews and won did they not?

The last place team winning in 2016 doesn't make the last place team win in 2015.
We also actually had more points in 2016 than 2015.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

based on term and in JT's case performance

Mathews - 2m
Marner - 1.8
Willie -500
Tavares - 2m and maybe even 3-3,5 m based solely on last season

i've got 6.3 to 7.3-7.8 m in overpayments

recalculate for next season please.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

It's just bad luck guys, Every year and exclusively. The players are good enough and they're not overpaid.

 

[keonsbitterness]

A year later the Leafs tanked for Matthews and won did they not?

Or are we just gonna ignore that fact?

So what? They were still at the mercy of the lottery. The last place team did not win the lottery from 2012-15. They could have just as easily ended up with Laine.

Despite finishing 4th and 3rd last in 2015, the Leafs and Oilers were reportedly the two closest lottery balls ready to drop but things went Edmonton's way. Lotteries are luck, not fact.

 

[hotpaws]

recalculate for next season please.

the post you replied to was from the summer of 2021 , JT by himself will be overpaid more than all 4 players were back then

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

So what? They were still at the mercy of the lottery. The last place team did not win the lottery from 2012-15. They could have just as easily ended up with Laine.

Despite finishing 4th and 3rd last in 2015, the Leafs and Oilers were reportedly the two closest lottery balls ready to drop but things went Edmonton's way. Lotteries are luck, not fact.

So why did they tank for Matthews then?

According to you this stupid organization should have just kept Kessel and Phaneuf. Finished wherever they finished thar year and hoped they got the best pick. Makes no sense all these NHL teams tanking every year to engineer it so they have the best chances to win the lottery.

Ignoring reality is a great idea.

 

[Antropovsky]

Shanahan and Dubas are beginning to sound like the laurel and hardy. Both are looking like dumb asses. Dubas saying Lou "tied his hands". Giving him a "relegating him to a short list of responsibilities that included GM of the AHL Marlies". Lol.. he had two years of junior hockey GM experience, no experience as a player and was all of 28 years old and being mentored by Lou L.

I havent read rhe book, but the summary is embarrassing in this article... Just fire Shanahan already.

Lamoriello is quick to insist he is making “no excuses” for his record as Leafs GM, even as he offers at least one. Still, it’s worth noting that Dubas makes the point to Custance that the Leafs, in that summer of 2015, “needed Lou” even if it’s acknowledged in the book that Lamoriello “tied (Dubas’s) hands” in the early days of their co-existence in Leafland, relegating him to a short list of responsibilities that included GM of the AHL Marlies. Never mind that Shanahan, when he hired Dubas as assistant GM in Toronto a year earlier, told Dubas he’d be involved in every aspect of the organization.

Dubas makes the case that as much as things got done during the short-lived days of Dubas-Hunter reign — the Leafs drafted Marner and traded Phil Kessel during that period — the operation was, in Dubas’s characterization, “very haphazard.” It’s hardly a ringing endorsement of Shanahan, but it’s not surprising. Shanahan had never run a team. Neither Dubas nor Hunter had executive experience in the NHL. And it didn’t help that the biggest personality in the room belonged to Babcock. Having your coach make like a de facto GM — Babcock’s default attitude until Lamoriello arrived — wasn’t a road to workplace harmony, let alone victory.

 

[Leafs87]

Not sure how much of this falls on Shanahan but the lack of size on D, lack of depth and no real goalie has killed the team. Couple that with the overpayments and you have what we have today

 

[DuklaNation]

As a 10 year President, Shanahan has been a failure in terms of playoff success. Maybe it's been better on the business side, but that was hardly a concern in this market.

Fire him now.

 

[BraveCanadian]

I’ll give them a discount and do Shannys job for half what he makes, no problem, and I’ll even do it from within the province.

Well until April when we all jet off for vacation.

 

[keonsbitterness]

So why did they tank for Matthews then?

Because they knew the team would be poor, but there was still no guarantee they'd get the first pick. Again, the 3rd last team got McDavid, not last or 2nd last.

According to you this stupid organization should have just kept Kessel and Phaneuf. Finished wherever they finished thar year and hoped they got the best pick. Makes no sense all these NHL teams tanking every year to engineer it so they have the best chances to win the lottery.

Where the hell did I say that? Bottoming out was definitely the right move.

Ignoring reality is a great idea.

You're proof of that with your dumb trade proposals, Howard.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Because they knew the team would be poor, but there was still no guarantee they'd get the first pick. Again, the 3rd last team got McDavid, not last or 2nd last.

Where the hell did I say that? Bottoming out was definitely the right move.

You're proof of that with your dumb trade proposals, Howard.

So if bottoming out for Matthews was the right move why wasn't it the right move to do it a year earlier for McDavid?

 

[Superstar]

Why did the hockey mecca of the world hire a rookie to be the president?

Who let this rookie president hire a rookie gm?

How did this rookie gm get to hire a rookie coach?

What a perplexing time to be a leafs fan.

Why not? How else are you going to manage and relate to multiple top-of-the-draft elite rookies and get them to buy-in?

 

[keonsbitterness]

So if bottoming out for Matthews was the right move why wasn't it the right move to do it a year earlier for McDavid?

What exactly is your point? They finished 4th last and came closer to winning the lottery than last place and 2nd last. Did you want them to build a time machine so they could plan to finish 3rd last?

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

What exactly is your point? They finished 4th last and came closer to winning the lottery than last place and 2nd last. Did you want them to build a time machine so they could plan to finish 3rd last?

My point is that if, according to your own words, bottoming out for Matthews was the right thing to do, then bottoming out for McDavid a year earlier would have been the right thing to do as well.

So.... not bottoming out for McDavid was a mistake... and imo was the biggest mistake of his tenure.

 

[keonsbitterness]

My point is that if, according to your own words, bottoming out for Matthews was the right thing to do, then bottoming out for McDavid a year earlier would have been the right thing to do as well.

So.... not bottoming out for McDavid was a mistake... and imo was the biggest mistake of his tenure.

So 4th last in 14-15 with 68 points isn't bottoming out but last in 15-16 with 69 points is. We also finished only one point behind the Oilers in 15-16. One different regular season result would have resulted in the Oilers drafting Matthews and the Leafs drafting fourth.

Your logic sucks.

 

[Superstar]

Shanahan and Dubas are beginning to sound like the laurel and hardy. Both are looking like dumb asses. Dubas saying Lou "tied his hands". Giving him a "relegating him to a short list of responsibilities that included GM of the AHL Marlies". Lol.. he had two years of junior hockey GM experience, no experience as a player and was all of 28 years old and being mentored by Lou L.

I havent read rhe book, but the summary is embarrassing in this article... Just fire Shanahan already.

You can't be that critical...some might be offended here...Shanahan might have another genius revelation while driving down the DVP, meanwhile kid-einstein Dubas is coming up with the next "we can and we will!" slogan as a Pens executive...I tell ya, two of the greatest hockey minds in the past century of hockey glory and lore...

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

So 4th last in 14-15 with 68 points isn't bottoming out but last in 15-16 with 69 points is. We also finished only one point behind the Oilers in 15-16. One different regular season result would have resulted in the Oilers drafting Matthews and the Leafs drafting fourth.

Your logic sucks.

i remember when wake'n'bake meant fresh muffins in the morning.

Just because the bong fits in one hand and the phone in the other doesn't mean you should use them both at the same.time. There's a differemce between being bad on purpose to engineer the best odds for the draft and being bad while trying to compete. You admit it was the right move tanking for Matthews but deny it was the right move for McDavid.

And tbat's wbat you call logical.....