Shanahan's biggest gaffe shows he's out of touch: revisiting the "Discounts" quote

[justashadowof]

Also calls into question what a supporting Kid Line on a cup contender should look like. I think Knies fits the description, but some of the other prospects will need to prove themselves in terms of playing a playoff brand game.

Until drafting Knies, Dubas has been only attempting to hit a home run with some sort of Gaudreau/Kaprizov type. It would be real nice and all but truth be told the 2021-22 Leafs' team PLUS some elite offensive waterbug would probably still be deficient as a Cup contender. The team would need young robust healthy bodies ready to take and hand out a little punishment against the big boys.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I’m glad you mentioned treadmilling, because that’s exactly what this team has been doing when it comes to playoffs. I could care less about the regular season, it means jackshit when it comes to the playoffs.
With the way Dubas has constructed the team (ie paying 2 wingers and 2 centers half the cap), they will never have the necessary cap room to build a team that can go deep in the playoffs. You either need a #1 goalie, or a solid 1a-1b tandem. Campbell is the 1a, but Peter I’ve-reinjured-my-groin Mrazek is not a 1b. Will there be enough cap room to resign Campbell to a reasonable contract?
One other thing that I find perplexing is: you’re paying 4 forwards half the cap, yet you still need to find two wingers who can play with them while only being able to spend around $1 million on each. And there are still holes to fill on the other 2 lines. Dubas has built an imbalanced team and will go down with the ship rather than admit he made a mistake and try to correct it (ie I’m smarter than everyone else).
And another thing, how in Hell has Shanahan been able to keep his job? To me, he always has the look of a deer caught in the headlights. Get someone in there who has the balls to do whatever it takes to build a team that has 3 solid lines and a 4th line that can hold their own!

Yeah the balls to trade away elite players for subpar players! Great idea.

 

[Stephen]

Yeah the balls to trade away elite players for subpar players! Great idea.

Part of the problem with this line of thinking is Dubas came out and basically said he didn’t want to take an L on a Big 4 trade at the end of 2021. Shows a lack of imagination and confidence that as a GM he couldn’t potentially win a trade moving any of those players. Or even more outlandishly, upgrade on a Big 4 piece. Why would such a scenario be predicated on being in a position of weakness?

 

[Nylanderthal]

Part of the problem with this line of thinking is Dubas came out and basically said he didn’t want to take an L on a Big 4 trade at the end of 2021. Shows a lack of imagination and confidence that as a GM he couldn’t potentially win a trade moving any of those players. Or even more outlandishly, upgrade on a Big 4 piece. Why would such a scenario be predicated on being in a position of weakness?

I’m sure if there’s an opportunity to add assets to one of those guys and upgrade I’m sure management has and would explore it. I just don’t take much of the stuff they say in press conferences as gospel, one good thing Kyle learned from Lou was to operate in a cone of silence.
How many times does something like that happen in a cap world though?
I haven’t seen one post proposing that, everything is breaking down the value of our dollar bills into loose change, when we’ve seen an ability in this group to find those nickels and dimes.

 

[PromisedLand]

"We can and we will" What?

Continue to be a JOKE in the league
Continue to be a disaster
Continue to SUCK
Continue to keep losing in the 1st rounds
Continue to pretend we are lost in the SCF game 7 OT
Continue to be respected in the handshake line


Is MLSE really buying all the BS being sold by shanny/dubas? I mean really?

 

[Stephen]

I’m sure if there’s an opportunity to add assets to one of those guys and upgrade I’m sure management has and would explore it. I just don’t take much of the stuff they say in press conferences as gospel, one good thing Kyle learned from Lou was to operate in a cone of silence.
How many times does something like that happen in a cap world though?
I haven’t seen one post proposing that, everything is breaking down the value of our dollar bills into loose change, when we’ve seen an ability in this group to find those nickels and dimes.

It's part of Kyle Dubas' job to do everything he can and turn $1 into $1.50 asset somewhere else and keep the championship climb on the up and up, for example. So to complain about the improbability or unlikelihood of it would be unacceptable to me if I were his boss.

A hypothetical Big 4 trade could look like let's say Nylander outgoing for Pure Future Assets, draft picks and ELC level prospects only. Then you re-spend all of his salary on the UFA market to immediately fill the Nylander hole. So for example maybe it looks like:

Outgoing:

Nylander

Incoming:

Forsberg
1st
Prospect

So you wouldn't even need to accomplish everything in one trade but be smart about leveraging your cap space to double dip.

 

[Nylanderthal]

It's part of Kyle Dubas' job to do everything he can and turn $1 into $1.50 asset somewhere else and keep the championship climb on the up and up, for example. So to complain about the improbability or unlikelihood of it would be unacceptable to me if I were his boss.

A hypothetical Big 4 trade could look like let's say Nylander outgoing for Pure Future Assets, draft picks and ELC level prospects only. Then you re-spend all of his salary on the UFA market to immediately fill the Nylander hole. So for example maybe it looks like:

Outgoing:

Nylander

Incoming:

Forsberg
1st
Prospect

So you wouldn't even need to accomplish everything in one trade but be smart about leveraging your cap space to double dip.

Forsberg is going to cost a lot more than 6.9 and for a lot longer than 2 more seasons. You’re probably looking at 9.5x7. I mean if you want to subtract kerfoot and replace him with a sub $1m dollar player it’s a wash, but I think they’re planning on using that money to change up the dynamic of the bottom 6 more so than the top. I might be wrong, heck I even made a post yesterday how I’d consider
moving will in exactly such a deal if a team like NJ or Ottawa wanted to make high picks available I’d consider it 100%

 

[Stephen]

Forsberg is going to cost a lot more than 6.9 and for a lot longer than 2 more seasons. You’re probably looking at 9.5x7. I mean if you want to subtract kerfoot and replace him with a sub $1m dollar player it’s a wash, but I think they’re planning on using that money to change up the dynamic of the bottom 6 more so than the top. I might be wrong, heck I even made a post yesterday how I’d consider
moving will in exactly such a deal if a team like NJ or Ottawa wanted to make high picks available I’d consider it 100%

Yeah, all I ask is that the improbable/NBA/video game scenarios are explored in order to ruthlessly gain a competitive edge year over year.

Forsberg will definitely cost more and would only be possible with a bigger salary shuffle including some combination of Muzzin, Brodie, Kerfoot, Holl going out the door. But just as an example of how you can turn that dollar into more than just loose change if leveraging the free cap from a hypothetical Big 4 trade.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Probably not too many.

But there also aren't that many gms who inherit as promising a team as dubas and yet have zero results.

Also, we have the benefit of hindsight. Since that jackets series, we have two more first round loses. Are you saying it would've been wrong to fire dubas back in 2020 considering we already know how the next two years went?

Probably still none if you include new GMs who miss the playoffs their first two years.

If I had the benefit of hindsight, I'd now be a trillionaire after winning every lottery on Earth.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Yeah the balls to trade away elite players for subpar players! Great idea.

Who in Hell said subpar players? Are you saying Dubas might do that? Lol

 

[Nylanderthal]

Who in Hell said subpar players? Are you saying Dubas might do that? Lol

Not at all, with dubas I think quite the opposite and I think if anything he’ll try to add to ghetto main 4 pieces by making other “core” pieces available. However it’s what I see most posters who want to move Willy end up doing tho.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Probably still none if you include new GMs who miss the playoffs their first two years.

If I had the benefit of hindsight, I'd now be a trillionaire after winning every lottery on Earth.

Exactly, having the benefit of hindsight is huge!

We know for a fact that the two years following the jackets series were both failures. We don't need to guess.

I said back in 2020 that dubas should be fired. If he had, there's a chance we would've won at least one round in the last 2 years.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Exactly, having the benefit of hindsight is huge!

We know for a fact that the two years following the jackets series were both failures. We don't need to guess.

I said back in 2020 that dubas should be fired. If he had, there's a chance we would've won at least one round in the last 2 years.

Get me those winning lotto numbers.

 

[hamzarocks]

Yeah the balls to trade away elite players for subpar players! Great idea.

The problem is they aren't elite players in the playoffs.

Nylander failed in 2019. Marner and JT were solid, Matthews was good

Marner and JT failed in 2020, Nylander was solid, and Matthews was good

Marner and Matthews Failed in 2021, JT got hurt, Nylander was good

2022 they were all good.

In the 4 years we finally got a series where all four played good hockey (34 and 16 were even great) and we still lost

JT isn't a playoff performer in his tenure here. His production has been very disappointing.

The big 4 are just okay in the playoffs, not elite superstars

 

[hfman]

shanahan entering his 9th season with toronto

no playoff wins during his entire stay here

what other team president can go nearly a decade with zero playoff victories and still be employed?

but he still has his job


how

 

[mikeyz]

shanahan entering his 9th season with toronto

no playoff wins during his entire stay here

what other team president can go nearly a decade with zero playoff victories and still be employed?

but he still has his job


how

/Thread.

 

[Snipes 29]

View attachment 448486

‘This may not be for everyone’: Shanahan talks Maple Leafs and hometown discounts


More at: (source)


What a screw up that was.
He ate 7 AAV for his loose lips.

Dubas Overpays:
Matthews 2, Marner 3, Tavares 1, Nylander 1.

Shanny should go for that. His lack of understanding of negotiations showed.

Someone else can oversee the team for a year and then decide if Dubas and Keefe should go.

There is zero risk in pink slipping Shanahan this year. It wont effect the on ice play next year.

Time to pink slip Shanahan.

agree but get rid of keefe and dufus also

shanahan entering his 9th season with toronto

no playoff wins during his entire stay here

what other team president can go nearly a decade with zero playoff victories and still be employed?

but he still has his job


how

disgusting

Disgusting

 

[Racer88]

"We can and we will" What?

Continue to be a JOKE in the league
Continue to be a disaster
Continue to SUCK
Continue to keep losing in the 1st rounds
Continue to pretend we are lost in the SCF game 7 OT
Continue to be respected in the handshake line


Is MLSE really buying all the BS being sold by shanny/dubas? I mean really?

It shouldn’t be a surprise. Have you ever tried to get an intelligent person on the phone at Rogers or Bell when you call-in for help?

 

[hfman]

Once his gig is up in Toronto, his resume will likely show a full decade with zero playoff wins.

How is he going to get another job with another team with a resume like that?

Makes one wonder what is he still doing here, he's running himself into the ground...

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Shanny: this is your last shot. Your team either excels this post season or ….

You are the first to go:

 

[mikeyz]

Shanny: this is your last shot. Your team either excels this post season or ….

You are the first to go:

View attachment 683399

All 3 of them should be gone if they lose in the 1st round again (Shanny, Dubas and Keefe)

 

[HamiltonNHL]

All 3 of them should be gone if they lose in the 1st round again (Shanny, Dubas and Keefe)

Without question. But you always start with Shanahan.

 

[Maple Leaf]

They believe in the core

 

[HamiltonNHL]

If your goal is to sign Matthews then I think you keep Shanahan and all management until the signing is done.

 

[CincoHolio]

"We can and we will" What?

Continue to be a JOKE in the league
Continue to be a disaster
Continue to SUCK
Continue to keep losing in the 1st rounds
Continue to pretend we are lost in the SCF game 7 OT
Continue to be respected in the handshake line


Is MLSE really buying all the BS being sold by shanny/dubas? I mean really?

Line 4 needs updating.