Right, I figure the evidence is stronger than not that it's Helena but I'm wondering if that's the point if they're making us think she's going in as the mole or if there's something else to it. I don't know why the show would make a point to continue to be ambiguous about it after all this set up unless they think they can still salvage a surprising twist for those that aren't cueing into context clues. Though, on the same hand the big twist with Ms. Casey/Gemma being alive was revealed before Mark's cliffhanger yell "She's Alive!" and the point wasn't the twist itself but how innie Mark reacted to it. So I suppose the same thing can apply here. At some point the other MDR gents will snuff out the difference between Helena and Helly and it will create a big dramatic wrinkle.
TV: Severance - Apple TV
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Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
Yes!
I also think that "Helena" being down there will make her soft/humanize her. I think she was a little jealous/intrigued that Helly had a love interest. Note that she rewatched that footage
Like man rich or famous people, they really know if anyone like them for who they really are vs their money or fame. I'll have to rewatch season 2 Ep 1 but I kinda remember "Helena" flirting with Mark down on the Severed floor.
I also think that "Helena" being down there will make her soft/humanize her. I think she was a little jealous/intrigued that Helly had a love interest. Note that she rewatched that footage
Like man rich or famous people, they really know if anyone like them for who they really are vs their money or fame. I'll have to rewatch season 2 Ep 1 but I kinda remember "Helena" flirting with Mark down on the Severed floor.
I rewatched the episode before episode 2 cause I was getting my brother to binge the whole series with me to get him caught up before I watched last night's episode. I thought it was more in the vein of Helena (if we conclude it is actually Helena) sort of assuming the budding romance between the two is stronger than it is and wanting to keep that leverage going strong. I mean yes we can interpret her rewatching the Helly/Mark kiss as her longing for a genuine human connection like that, but I think it's also possible that she felt that the relationship would be her key to manipulating and controlling Mark. So offering to help him find and free Gemma would be her adjusting to this new information on the fly. Helena probably already knew that Gemma was/is Mark's wife, but Mark finding out about it complicates her leverage.
Or the show might be intentionally throwing misdirection at us and it's just Helly R. back in there and she was legitimately concerned that her best and possibly only chance at a romantic relationship as an innie might disappear if innie Mark recaptures outie Mark's love and devotion to Gemma.
I'm probably out to lunch on the idea that it could be Helly but it feels a touch bizarre to me that they'd be this blunt/obvious about it.
Or the show might be intentionally throwing misdirection at us and it's just Helly R. back in there and she was legitimately concerned that her best and possibly only chance at a romantic relationship as an innie might disappear if innie Mark recaptures outie Mark's love and devotion to Gemma.
I'm probably out to lunch on the idea that it could be Helly but it feels a touch bizarre to me that they'd be this blunt/obvious about it.
Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
well said
It'll be interesting to see which of our "theories" is closer to what unfolds.
This show is SOOOO well written than we also might both be totally off!!!
I can't wait!
Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
'Severance' Season 2 Episode 2 Ending Explained: What Is Cold Harbor?
"Severance" Season 2 is hammering home the importance of Mark working on completing the Cold Harbor file, but what exactly is it?
www.thewrap.com
JetsWillFly4Ever
Registered User
Dubi Doo
Registered User
- Aug 27, 2008
- 20,665
- 14,818
This show is insane. Honestly, can't believe it took me so long to watch it. The season finale to 1 was awesome. Season 2 is off to an amazing start. Apple delivers again.
Peasy
Registered User
I really don't think its Helly. Think of how much damage Helly caused Lumon. Why would they actively bring her back? They originally fired Dylan and Irv because of the revolution but only brought them back when Mark said he needed all of them for him to keep working (Mark seems to be the most important thing/person for Lumon right now). So to make Mark happy, they brought them all back but with Helena instead of Helly.
I think the end game for Lumon is trying to reinstall someones consciousness into a new host body. They are trying to bring back Kier from the dead and essentially gain immortality.
I think the end game for Lumon is trying to reinstall someones consciousness into a new host body. They are trying to bring back Kier from the dead and essentially gain immortality.
JetsWillFly4Ever
Registered User
Ya I tend to agree about Helly vs. Helena.
We also see her watching the kiss over and over again, I wouldn't be surprised if she could be turned in favour of the innies after spending time with them. She has probably been controlled all her life on the outside in her cult like family.
Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
There are multiple hints that it's Helena
Her fumbling to turn the computer on in Ep 1 and in Ep2 there was a ding in the elevator for Dylan and Irv that wasn't there for Helly-na
It is also safe to assume that Helly would have gladly told the other three who she learned that her outie is.
I can't take credit for this next one , I read in a theories article, but it said that a innie would never describe and apartment as "boring" Remember the replacement 3's biggest question for Mark when they learned that innie mark had seen the outside world was about the sky
I think the prevailing conclusion is that it's Helena and that's how I lean. I'm just wary of a show like this putting out easy to detect clues to plant the idea in viewers' minds from the get go.
But I think it's just as likely that the point isn't the easily detectable twist but how that impacts the story going forward.
My own off the cuff theory is that unless they intend Helena to be some big bad villain, she might soften to the innies and join their cause as early as this season.
I mean after the finale of season 1, you have to imagine that the innies of this MDR will be heavily monitored and maybe Helena becomes their means of access to discover more and rebel further. But it also means that Helly is functionally dead to the other 3 so that probably raises some narrative wrinkles.
Or it's possible that Lumon might continue to let our innies keep investigating the inner workings of their workplace and lead them to believe that they're making progress as a sort of way to study the psychological impacts of severed identities further. Though I can't imagine the overtime contingency incident from season 1 was something Lumon intended or were okay with as their reaction to it collectively was damage control.
But I think it's just as likely that the point isn't the easily detectable twist but how that impacts the story going forward.
My own off the cuff theory is that unless they intend Helena to be some big bad villain, she might soften to the innies and join their cause as early as this season.
I mean after the finale of season 1, you have to imagine that the innies of this MDR will be heavily monitored and maybe Helena becomes their means of access to discover more and rebel further. But it also means that Helly is functionally dead to the other 3 so that probably raises some narrative wrinkles.
Or it's possible that Lumon might continue to let our innies keep investigating the inner workings of their workplace and lead them to believe that they're making progress as a sort of way to study the psychological impacts of severed identities further. Though I can't imagine the overtime contingency incident from season 1 was something Lumon intended or were okay with as their reaction to it collectively was damage control.
the valiant effort
settle down, bud
- Apr 17, 2017
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I think its Helena... But I think it's going to take a while for the innies to figure it out. And over that time, Helena is going to fall in love with Mark and end up being on the Innies side in all of this... Which will then create a particularly difficult inner conflict for Helena to deal with because she's going to want to do right by the innies but also being in love with Mark.
That's where I think that situation is headed.
That's where I think that situation is headed.
I like the idea that either version of Helly would develop feelings for Mark. But the big rub is I can't see, short of all of them re-integrating, how they can be okay with Helly being more or less functionally dead as long as Helena is down there with them. Maybe they begrudgingly accept Helena's help on the condition that she come down as Helly at some point.
I think this is the inherent problem with being so obvious about this twist. The story could go anywhere, but it can also be guessed and widely discussed. But I guess I'd prefer that to butchering the story to be as difficult to predict as possible like Westworld did.
Oh they absolutely wont be... And that'll be another major story that develops out of it.
Helena is going to fall for Mark and start working with the Innies, and then the Innies are going to find out it isn't Helly, but Helena. And that's going to cause a shit storm and then a major plot point of the season will be how that ultimately unfolds and how Helena reacts when the Innies figure out who she is, and what she ends up doing about it.
Lt Dan
F*** your ice cream!
Wow.
I figured Mark was going to reintegrate at some point this season based on some of the trailers showing him flipping between outtie/innie the way Petey did, but I figured that would be an endgame of the season type deal. We're sitting here talking about Helena, but now we're going to have both versions of Mark on the severed floor.
Episode was great outside of the Cobel mystery. After being the most interesting part of episode 2, the Helena/Cobel stuff and everything before it was tedious
Episode was great outside of the Cobel mystery. After being the most interesting part of episode 2, the Helena/Cobel stuff and everything before it was tedious
More thoughts
Some serious cringecore in the first half of the episode.
Milchik getting those paintings that are basically just blackface Kier as his way to see himself in Kier. Like it's partially and sad and amusing that to a soulless cultlike corporation, the big way for Milchik to relate to Kier is just throwing on blackface on his image, but the scenes with his reactions do beg the question, why is he so devoted to Lumon? I think Cobel there's some strong theories relating to her mother, but Milchik it could be literally anything.
Helena as Helly awkwardly trying to kiss innie Mark. Neither of them are feeling the vibe. Helena has no history with him and Mark S. is preoccupied by an obligation to a marriage he knows his outie self had. He doesn't necessarily love Ms. Casey but he cares about her enough and likely wants to help her for his outie, especially after finding out his outie severed because of her death. Ms. Casey is essentially the catalyst of innie Mark's existence. So he likely doesn't have much interest in a budding romance before the reintegration even if there is attraction and interest there. Now that he is reintegrated, it wrinkles things that much more. This feels like a show that can't have happy endings until the end so I'd imagine they'd find a way to sever Mark again by season's end or maybe the investigation goes for multiple seasons. In any case, the attempted kiss was top shelf cringe.
Then the meeting with Dylan and his wife was pretty expectedly awkward. But I was surprised that it seems like Milchik was telling the truth about family visitation given we saw her with Outie Dylan too. Is it is as simple as they're just trying to placate Dylan after his rebellion in S1 that was largely motivated by wanting to know more about his outie life? Could they have gotten his wife to lie about why Dylan severed just to get him to be motivated to stay a good worker to support the family? I had a theory I kept to myself that the whole visitation wing would end up with them using a fake wife and kids to manipulate Dylan, and doesn't look like that was right, but there has to be something more to this. I refuse to believe Lumon is starting to change for the better.
Milchik getting those paintings that are basically just blackface Kier as his way to see himself in Kier. Like it's partially and sad and amusing that to a soulless cultlike corporation, the big way for Milchik to relate to Kier is just throwing on blackface on his image, but the scenes with his reactions do beg the question, why is he so devoted to Lumon? I think Cobel there's some strong theories relating to her mother, but Milchik it could be literally anything.
Helena as Helly awkwardly trying to kiss innie Mark. Neither of them are feeling the vibe. Helena has no history with him and Mark S. is preoccupied by an obligation to a marriage he knows his outie self had. He doesn't necessarily love Ms. Casey but he cares about her enough and likely wants to help her for his outie, especially after finding out his outie severed because of her death. Ms. Casey is essentially the catalyst of innie Mark's existence. So he likely doesn't have much interest in a budding romance before the reintegration even if there is attraction and interest there. Now that he is reintegrated, it wrinkles things that much more. This feels like a show that can't have happy endings until the end so I'd imagine they'd find a way to sever Mark again by season's end or maybe the investigation goes for multiple seasons. In any case, the attempted kiss was top shelf cringe.
Then the meeting with Dylan and his wife was pretty expectedly awkward. But I was surprised that it seems like Milchik was telling the truth about family visitation given we saw her with Outie Dylan too. Is it is as simple as they're just trying to placate Dylan after his rebellion in S1 that was largely motivated by wanting to know more about his outie life? Could they have gotten his wife to lie about why Dylan severed just to get him to be motivated to stay a good worker to support the family? I had a theory I kept to myself that the whole visitation wing would end up with them using a fake wife and kids to manipulate Dylan, and doesn't look like that was right, but there has to be something more to this. I refuse to believe Lumon is starting to change for the better.
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