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Value of: Seth Jones to anywhere

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Stickpucker said:
I think it's an easy waive to go from Chicago to a team in Montreal showing signs of life.

It's not exactly as if he's leaving a cup contender.
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Considering he wanted to go to Chicago or Dallas from reports at time of trade years ago doubtful he would be open to Canada let alone Montreal (Maybe Toronto could appeal to him but still doubt it)
 
cbjthrowaway said:
he also gave them a list of 2-3 teams (iirc) who he would sign an extension with.
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He had 1 year left with CBJ. And told them that he would not extend once his deal was up, thus making him a UFA. CBJ was free to move him within the confines of his MNTC I believe that he had at the time.

Clearly, being able to extend him would change the return for his services and he did make it clear that he wouldn't sign early unless it was to a couple of teams like you pointed out. Any team would want to speak to him about a contract before acquiring his services and if they get a, no I don't want to sign at this time, they adjust their trade to make it a rental acquisition.

Nothing wrong with what he did. If he wanted to go elsewhere come UFA, he was free to do so. He never threatened to not play for CBJ should he not be dealt. That's a different matter.

Now, for Jones today. No sympathy for him now. Chi is not obligated to move him unless they get a deal that they like. So, while he may not like the losing, this was one of the places he wanted to go. Not sure what he was thinking picking Chi with an aging Keith, Kane, Toews, Seabrook (was he injured at the time?) and moved? But, that core that won the 3 cups would soon be gone. So, he made a bad choice, but that's on him to live with now.
 
StreetHawk said:
He had 1 year left with CBJ. And told them that he would not extend once his deal was up, thus making him a UFA. CBJ was free to move him within the confines of his MNTC I believe that he had at the time.

Clearly, being able to extend him would change the return for his services and he did make it clear that he wouldn't sign early unless it was to a couple of teams like you pointed out. Any team would want to speak to him about a contract before acquiring his services and if they get a, no I don't want to sign at this time, they adjust their trade to make it a rental acquisition.

Nothing wrong with what he did. If he wanted to go elsewhere come UFA, he was free to do so. He never threatened to not play for CBJ should he not be dealt. That's a different matter.
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"nothing wrong with what he did" and "forced his way out" are not mutually exclusive in this scenario though.

could they have kept him? sure.

could they have traded him as a rental? sure.

could i go take a dump on my living room floor right now? also sure.

point being, yes, the jackets could have taken a different path with jones, but the parameters jones set out (and to be clear, he wasn't out of line in doing so) meant that all but one of those paths were not sensibles ones to take.
StreetHawk said:
Now, for Jones today. No sympathy for him now. Chi is not obligated to move him unless they get a deal that they like. So, while he may not like the losing, this was one of the places he wanted to go. Not sure what he was thinking picking Chi with an aging Keith, Kane, Toews, Seabrook (was he injured at the time?) and moved? But, that core that won the 3 cups would soon be gone. So, he made a bad choice, but that's on him to live with now.
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are there rumblings that jones wants to leave chicago? the sense i've gotten as an outsider is that the fans are just sick of watching him and want to get out from under his contract.
 
cbjthrowaway said:
point being, yes, the jackets could have taken a different path with jones, but the parameters jones set out (and to be clear, he wasn't out of line in doing so) meant that all but one of those paths were not sensibles ones to take.
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Like Panarin and Bob, no one is obligated to sign their UFA years with their current team. They could have very well treated Jones the same was as those 2 and play it out and let him walk. We've seen it many times with other players who would not sign ufa years and were subsequently traded.
 
StreetHawk said:
Like Panarin and Bob, no one is obligated to sign their UFA years with their current team. They could have very well treated Jones the same was as those 2 and play it out and let him walk. We've seen it many times with other players who would not sign ufa years and were subsequently traded.
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i'm not saying that they (or jones) were obligated to do anything.

jones did the org a solid by giving them advance notice. but what he did (as well as bob + panarin) still constitutes "forcing his way out" as i define it.

he's not obligated to sign there. saying that he wouldn't consider signing there + would only extend with a handful of teams creates a scenario where the only logical move is a trade.

i'm not saying that what he did was unprofessional or wrong, i'm saying that the player engineering a scenario that guaranteed a trade is the definition of "forcing their way out"

the mechanics and optics of him "forcing his way out" are far more favorable to the way that dubois, laine, etc. did it, but that doesn't mean the underlying intent (not wanting to play here) or outcome (getting to play somewhere else) were any different.
 
malcb33 said:
So, by your estimation, for 2M retained it would be approximately a 2nd and 3rd?
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I look at recent cap dump deals.

A 2nd to dump Walman.
A 3rd to dump Ceci.

But those are actual players with worth. So if you are just dumping/retaining pure dollars like 2M in one year and 3M in another year. I would estimate the cost to be around 4th round pick each.
 
BHawk21 said:
bad or bad for his contract? he was either the best or second best defenseman on the team...
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He hasn't been the best Dman on this team for at least 2 years, and being the 2nd best Dman on the Blackhawks isn't exactly a ringing endorsement considering who the Dmen are. Bad is relative yes. Most of last year and for ~10 games this year he was a decent 2nd pairing Dman.
 
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Hawkaholic said:
He hasn't been the best Dman on this team for at least 2 years, and being the 2nd best Dman on the Blackhawks isn't exactly a ringing endorsement considering who the Dmen are. Bad is relative yes. Most of last year and for ~10 games this year he was a decent 2nd pairing Dman.
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so if hes the 2nd best dman and we have no cap issues whats the rush to move him when hes playing his worst hockey right now.
 
BHawk21 said:
so if hes the 2nd best dman and we have no cap issues whats the rush to move him when hes playing his worst hockey right now.
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He isn't the 2nd best Dman right now, and I wouldn't say I am in a rush to move him, but I wouldn't mind if he's dealt just to get rid of him. You are probably right that now probably isn't the best time to move him since he's worse now than he's ever been, but you have to hope his game improves and this isn't the new normal from him or you definitely aren't ridding yourself of him at all for the remainder of the contract.
 
I wish there was a way to make it work for Vancouver. He'd be great in a sort of secondary role and also give another good option to play with Hughes. But i just can't see any way to make that contract work. There's way too much term left, so Chicago aren't going to retain...and Canucks don't really have anything close to the sort of "bad money" to send back as a counterweight. :dunno:



Biggest problem with this whole thing is...i do think he's got some good hockey left to give, but realistically, the only teams that are in the right cap situation to take him on at full value and with that kind of term, are mostly other non-playoff teams.
 
With the cap apparently going up significantly I feel like this is something that’d have to be an offseason deal with a team making some big changes.
 
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TheNumber4 said:
I look at recent cap dump deals.

A 2nd to dump Walman.
A 3rd to dump Ceci.

But those are actual players with worth. So if you are just dumping/retaining pure dollars like 2M in one year and 3M in another year. I would estimate the cost to be around 4th round pick each.
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Seth Jones has 5 more years left after this season. I would assume that getting the Hawks to retain 2M for 3.5 years would cost more than a 4th-round pick.

If the acquisition cost was truly that low with retention, I could certainly see Montreal being interested.
 
malcb33 said:
Seth Jones has 5 more years left after this season. I would assume that getting the Hawks to retain 2M for 3.5 years would cost more than a 4th-round pick.

If the acquisition cost was truly that low with retention, I could certainly see Montreal being interested.
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...don't see the Habs as a fit at all; fairly robust D prospects already in the pool...
 
malcb33 said:
Seth Jones has 5 more years left after this season. I would assume that getting the Hawks to retain 2M for 3.5 years would cost more than a 4th-round pick.

If the acquisition cost was truly that low with retention, I could certainly see Montreal being interested.
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Per Year I said.
 
Regal said:
With the cap apparently going up significantly I feel like this is something that’d have to be an offseason deal with a team making some big changes.
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Between the full nmc, cap hit, Hawks willingness to retain, it’s still a tough fit to find an acceptable deal for all 3 parties.
 
malcb33 said:
That wasn't very clear, so my bad for missing it.

So, obviously 5 x 4th picks isn't a currency the Hawks would consider, so what is that equal to a 2nd and a 3rd?
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All good it was buried in the original reply.

In the context of Jones and Hawks, haven't really thought of it. My original comment was just saying like if you used a 3rd party broker to Eat that cap hit as a pure cap hit, that's what it should cost around. In the case of the Hawks and Jones i would need to evaluate his value compared to his cap to figure out what should be spent on or asked on Jones.
 
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BigDaddyLurch said:
...don't see the Habs as a fit at all; fairly robust D prospects already in the pool...
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Not really on the right side. They have Carrier playing top minutes, which he's doing well at right now but the goal is to bring Reinbacher and Mailloux into the mix slowly. Having a RHD minute muncher would help the younger players acclimatize with limited pressure; and would also be a great opportunity for Jones to build back his value on a young up and coming team. Kent loves a buy-low opportunity too...
 
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