Sergei Zubov & Petr Nedved for Ulf Samuelsson & Luc Robataille

[E-Train]

Add Tinordi to that. Frankly, keeping LaPerriere would have been the right move to do as well.

I was angry Laperriere was included too. That was an Espo type move. Keep a guy for 2 months and move on.

I would add Terry Carkner but his trade tree favors the Rangers. Ogrodnick was a needed scorer and Shaw paired with Leetch and then was dealt for Beuke.

 

[True Blue]

I was angry Laperriere was included too. That was an Espo type move. Keep a guy for 2 months and move on.

I would add Terry Carkner but his trade tree favors the Rangers. Ogrodnick was a needed scorer and Shaw paired with Leetch and then was dealt for Beuke.

The Carkner and Sameulson deals hurt as well. But yeah, Ogrodnick was necessary. The line with him Kisio & Mullen was one of my early favorites.

 

[E-Train]

But yeah, Ogrodnick was necessary. The line with him Kisio & Mullen was one of my early favorites.

I still remember Mullen’s OT winner on President’s Day 1990 against the Devils.

 

[Boris Zubov]

I still remember Mullen’s OT winner on President’s Day 1990 against the Devils.

Never understood why Mullen was given away to us by Winnipeg for the equivalent of a bucket of pucks. He was a solid, consistent player for us every season he was on the team.

 

[Kodiak]

Something we forget is that Leetch's career arch was almost the mirror reflection of Lidstrom.

Whereas Lidstrom got better and hit his peak in his 30s, Leetch really started to decline sharply at 29.

Some of it was being the captain, but he was also never quite the force at either end of the ice he was up to 1997.

There were flashes and stretches afterwards no doubt. But Brian Leetch more or less stopped being Brian Leetch in his late 20s.

Meanwhile, Lidstrom really didn't start becoming Lidstrom until his late 20s.

But what Lidstrom did through the 2000s is kind of what I expected Leetch to do.

I don't agree with this. Leetch had something left in the tank post-97, but the narrative was that he was done after Messier left the first time.

Leetch had a Norris-calibre season in 00-01 where he led the team in points, led all D in points, and played some of his best defense. But he got overshadowed by Lidstrom being Lidstrom and Bourque's farewell tour. He logged a lot of minutes on a bad team, so he had a poor +/-, and this seemed to be the only time anyone in hockey actually cared about +/-.

I could see Lidstrom still winning the Norris that year, and I get that Bourque was going to get votes for his final season, but it was a travesty that Leetch finished 5th in voting behind Blake and Stevens.

 

[Edge]

I don't agree with this. Leetch had something left in the tank post-97, but the narrative was that he was done after Messier left the first time.

Leetch had a Norris-calibre season in 00-01 where he led the team in points, led all D in points, and played some of his best defense. But he got overshadowed by Lidstrom being Lidstrom and Bourque's farewell tour. He logged a lot of minutes on a bad team, so he had a poor +/-, and this seemed to be the only time anyone in hockey actually cared about +/-.

I could see Lidstrom still winning the Norris that year, and I get that Bourque was going to get votes for his final season, but it was a travesty that Leetch finished 5th in voting behind Blake and Stevens.

That one year is pretty much the exception.

Outside of that year, moving forward Leetch was pretty much a 10-15 goal, 50-55 point defenseman when healthy, he wasn't getting the the all-star votes anymore and he really wasn't consistently close to being one of the top candidates for the Norris either.

Yes those were not great teams, but Leetch also wasn't quite a great player on those teams either. At least not enough to really elevate them.

There is a distinct drop in his game at that point, and not just offensively. His defensive game really regressed as well. Granted some of that is the team, but there's no real getting around it --- beloved figure as he was.

His career, for whatever combination of reasons, really started to downturn quite a bit earlier than one would've expected.

 

[Kodiak]

That one year is pretty much the exception.

Outside of that year, moving forward Leetch was pretty much a 10-15 goal, 50-55 point defenseman when healthy, he wasn't getting the the all-star votes anymore and he really wasn't consistently close to being one of the top candidates for the Norris either.

Yes those were not great teams, but Leetch also wasn't quite a great player on those teams either. At least not enough to really elevate them.

There is a distinct drop in his game at that point, and not just offensively. His defensive game really regressed as well. Granted some of that is the team, but there's no real getting around it --- beloved figure as he was.

His career, for whatever combination of reasons, really started to downturn quite a bit earlier than one would've expected.

Leetch clearly had some down years post-97, but I think he also had some better years than his numbers indicated. Once the narrative was out there, no one really cared to challenge it.

He was the best player on a number of very poor (in terms of talent and coaching) teams. The tail end of his career may have looked differently if he wasn't playing through our dark ages.

 

[Boris Zubov]

That one year is pretty much the exception.

Outside of that year, moving forward Leetch was pretty much a 10-15 goal, 50-55 point defenseman when healthy, he wasn't getting the the all-star votes anymore and he really wasn't consistently close to being one of the top candidates for the Norris either.

Yes those were not great teams, but Leetch also wasn't quite a great player on those teams either. At least not enough to really elevate them.

There is a distinct drop in his game at that point, and not just offensively. His defensive game really regressed as well. Granted some of that is the team, but there's no real getting around it --- beloved figure as he was.

His career, for whatever combination of reasons, really started to downturn quite a bit earlier than one would've expected.

Leetch clearly had some down years post-97, but I think he also had some better years than his numbers indicated. Once the narrative was out there, no one really cared to challenge it.

He was the best player on a number of very poor (in terms of talent and coaching) teams. The tail end of his career may have looked differently if he wasn't playing through our dark ages.

I think it was a combination of the two. He started to regress & playing on really bad teams just magnified that. I also think the amount of serous injuries probably just started catching up with him. He broke both ankles, suffered nerve damage in his shoulder & separated a shoulder (f*** you Trent Klatt). Add them all up & that's a lot of miles on a guy who was playing 25 minutes a night for the better part of 15 years.

 

[Edge]

I think it was a combination of the two. He started to regress & playing on really bad teams just magnified that. I also think the amount of serous injuries probably just started catching up with him. He broke both ankles, suffered nerve damage in his shoulder & separated a shoulder (f*** you Trent Klatt). Add them all up & that's a lot of miles on a guy who was playing 25 minutes a night for the better part of 15 years.

I pretty much agree with this. It wasn't just one thing --- it usually never is.

I felt like the shoulder injury was a bit of a turning point for him, and then the other injuries started catching up, and the team wasn't great, and the captaincy didn't help, and age is a factor, etc. etc. etc.

I think what always made it stand out was just high of a level Leetch reached as a defenseman. We're not even talking very good, or great for the era. We're talking all-time great. That's the peak level he attained. You always hope that those are the guys who can last longer.

In Leetch's case it was hard because some of his peers maintained or re-invented themselves a little: Bourque, Chelios, Lidstrom, MacInnis, etc.

You thought Leetch might be one of those guys still challenging for or Winning Norris trophies at 33, 35, maybe even 38 or 40.

But he didn't, and he was out of the league completely at an age where some of his peers were still among the best in the sport.

Lundqvist was another one who I thought was going to be better than he was in his mid 30s.

 

[effen]

*snip*

Leetch got killed by the Ron Low teams running him out 30 mins a night. Years and years of miles on that body before Valentine's Day. Sadistic workload.

Just looked in one game in 2000-01 he had 36 minutes against Washington LOL.

 

[Edge]

Leetch got killed by the Ron Low teams running him out 30 mins a night. Years and years of miles on that body before Valentine's Day. Sadistic workload.

Just looked in one game in 2000-01 he had 36 minutes against Washington LOL.

Ironically, Leetch's first season under Low was also his one exception year to the decline.

But overall, his ATOI was actually slightly less under Low than it was in the previous two seasons under Muckler.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Don't know if most on here are old enough to remember 95 or they just look at what Zubov did after. He was abused by the Flyers, and even the Devils in the regular season. Eastern conference was VERY physical and it looked like Zubov couldn't handle it. Nedved was VERY soft that year, and if IIRC he had a knack for scoring goals when they were already up 4-1.

The trade in 96 was worse. Laperriere, Norstrom, Ferraro for Churla, McSorley, and Kurri. They had an awesome top 2 lines, Graves-Mess-Verbeek, Kovalev-Ferraro-Robitaille. They were in 1st place most of the year, and then it fell apart. Without that trade, I think they had a great chance to win the East, not sure they could have beat Colorado in the Finals.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Don't remember all the deals.
Do remember Mattias Norstrom to LA and that was short term win now disaster.
Would not have done Gartner for Andersson.
Would not have done Amonte for Noonan + Matteau (Matteau! Matteau!!)

Would have kept Zubov.
Would have tried other options to get Sammy.
Would have tried other options for grit.

Then they would have never won the Cup.