Seravalli: NHL Back to AZ Within 5yrs ?!?

[Cas]

do you have this backwards? the opposite is a significant factor in California, so much so that that the legislature in California is trying to tax people who are leaving.

He's saying that lots of people are moving from California to Arizona.

The last bit of your statement is just utter nonsense, though.

 

[LuckyDay]

He's saying that lots of people are moving from California to Arizona.

The last bit of your statement is just utter nonsense, though.

It was utter nonsense

California Exit Tax & Wealth Tax: What is it & How it Applies to You - Brotman Law - All Rights Reserved | 402 W Broadway, Suite 800 • San Diego, California 92101

The California Exit & Wealth Tax of 2020 is a 0.4% tax on CA resident's net worth over $30,000,000, but there are exceptions. Find out more here!

www.sambrotman.com

 

[Cas]

It was utter nonsense

California Exit Tax & Wealth Tax: What is it & How it Applies to You - Brotman Law - All Rights Reserved | 402 W Broadway, Suite 800 • San Diego, California 92101

The California Exit & Wealth Tax of 2020 is a 0.4% tax on CA resident's net worth over $30,000,000, but there are exceptions. Find out more here!

www.sambrotman.com

Yep, its nonsense.

AB 2088 died and was never enacted. This entire blurb is about a dead proposal that went nowhere. Every single result that says there is an "exit tax" is a web page that purports to be a law firm, tax accountant, wealth management firm, etc, without a single citation to any actual section of the California tax code.

If you want to show me where in the law this tax resides, I'll reconsider. Until then, I'm chalking this up to nonsensical Facebook rants about California stemming from grifters or people who don't live here.

 

[Figgy44]

do you have this backwards? the opposite is a significant factor in California, so much so that that the legislature in California is trying to tax people who are leaving.

I don't think I have it backwards although when I said changes post pandemic, I'm also associating certain changes that started pre pandemic too. Poor wording. I'm not claiming myself as an expert on the situation. Just saying what my conversation was with him a few years ago and at that time a few years ago he was saying that was his understanding. It's possible I mixed up the understanding at that time too, but I don't think so. He was saying how the pandemic rules in Arizona relaxing earlier along with the ability to WFH caused many to move to Arizona from California. It was a casual conversation with a local whom I believed was in the know. It wasn't like we were writing a research paper or anything. It was pure opinion.

It's also possible that the rules now are keeping people from leaving California. I'm just saying that the conversation was that just prior to the pandemic and during the pandemic, he said he heard there were a lot of people moving from California to Arizona and also many from Arizona to Texas. If there was a lot of transient activity during that time, it's possible that it was a small contributing reason since those people wouldn't be as interested in focusing on sports/hockey over other personal things they're dealing with.

This random link says around 60K annually move from Cali to Ari.
Why Are Californians Moving To Arizona? For Many Reasons.

Over 10 years, that still seems significant to me. Especially the demographic of people that typically decide to move cross state. I wasn't trying to say millions were leaving en masse or anything like that, so I'm sorry if my poor wording implied it.

 

[TheLegend]

I've seen comments about shitty ownership and not getting on ice results for some reasons to why Arizona hasn't worked out. Which is fair.

My question becomes, how long are fans willing to wait for the new Arizona club if they aren't successful out of the gate?

To me it would seem the leash would be short for interest if the team doesn't have results early on.

Speaking as a Coyotes fan..... anything short of a bonafide owner and an actual arena (for hockey) built isn't going to be acceptable.

A lot of people don't realize the Coyotes came about as a last minute desperation move by the original Jets owners and the league when they couldn't secure an arena deal in Minnesota.

Zero preparation, zero thought into how they could make it work by the subsequent parade of owners.

The fact they lasted 28 years is a miracle in itself. But they burned up a lot of political good will here in the process, and that's going to take more work than it would winning the fans over.

 

[AKL]

Yep, its nonsense.

AB 2088 died and was never enacted. This entire blurb is about a dead proposal that went nowhere. Every single result that says there is an "exit tax" is a web page that purports to be a law firm, tax accountant, wealth management firm, etc, without a single citation to any actual section of the California tax code.

If you want to show me where in the law this tax resides, I'll reconsider. Until then, I'm chalking this up to nonsensical Facebook rants about California stemming from grifters or people who don't live here.

So to be clear, you agree with him that they tried?

 

[GKJ]

Save us all with the ‘nobody in Arizona cares’ thing. They have a robust youth program, men and women, that’s produced one of the best players in the world. It’s strong enough there that they have a D1 hockey team. There’s a lot of current NHL markets who have been around far, far longer who cannot boast either of those things.

 

[Cas]

So to be clear, you agree with him that they tried?

A handful of members of the legislature, yes (though I'm not sure of the particulars of the bill itself - I certainly don't trust the statements of grifters, who claimed that there is such a law on the books, as to what exactly the draft bill entailed and I'm not going to read it right now). Of course, a handful of legislators in every single legislature propose weird stuff every session.

It's meaningless fluff, publicized by journalists desperate to attract eyeballs, or politicians or grifters hoping to gain a vote or a dollar, and always, always winds up being conflated to the entire legislature, or state, or party, often as an amorphous "they" (which you yourself are using there). It's journalistic malpractice at best (extremely common malpractice, I can easily identify it as my least favorite journalistic genre), outright lies at worst.

 

[tucker3434]

Why would Atlanta be next? They have had teams fail there multiple times.

The thrashers failed because they had a toxic landlord. They’ll be next because they’ll have 1) their own dedicated arena, 2) the funds for the expansion fee and 3) plenty of corporate support to buy up all the ad space and luxury boxes.

Cash is king. Hope this answers your question.

 

[lakeshirts37]

this has always been the plan - why are people surprised?

 

[AKL]

A handful of members of the legislature, yes (though I'm not sure of the particulars of the bill itself - I certainly don't trust the statements of grifters, who claimed that there is such a law on the books, as to what exactly the draft bill entailed and I'm not going to read it right now). Of course, a handful of legislators in every single legislature propose weird stuff every session.

It's meaningless fluff, publicized by journalists desperate to attract eyeballs, or politicians or grifters hoping to gain a vote or a dollar, and always, always winds up being conflated to the entire legislature, or state, or party, often as an amorphous "they" (which you yourself are using there). It's journalistic malpractice at best (extremely common malpractice, I can easily identify it as my least favorite journalistic genre), outright lies at worst.

All he said was they tried man, you are getting way too worked up and defensive over this.

Back to the NHL in AZ...

 

[Ocoee]

All he said was they tried man, you are getting way too worked up and defensive over this.

Back to the NHL in AZ...

I think he explained it well.

 

[AKL]

The thrashers failed because they had a toxic landlord.

Based on what I've heard, that might be underselling it. Didn't the ownership group want the Hawks and the arena, had to buy the Thrashers with them, didn't want the Thrashers, actively tanked the franchise in the process of trying to get rid of it?

 

[tucker3434]

Based on what I've heard, that might be underselling it. Didn't the ownership group want the Hawks and the arena, had to buy the Thrashers with them, didn't want the Thrashers, actively tanked the franchise in the process of trying to get rid of it?

For the most part, yeah. The Thrashers were offered for sale without arena rights, so they’d have to lease 41 dates from ASG. Especially under that CBA, there was no path to profitability for prospective local owners without building a new arena. It’s why the NHL didn’t lift a finger to help us out. ASG basically ensured that moving the franchise was the only option.

 

[StreetHawk]

For the most part, yeah. The Thrashers were offered for sale without arena rights, so they’d have to lease 41 dates from ASG. Especially under that CBA, there was no path to profitability for prospective local owners without building a new arena. It’s why the NHL didn’t lift a finger to help us out. ASG basically ensured that moving the franchise was the only option.

No nhl club is just a tenant to an nba team controlled arena. Only to one owned by the city. Just not financially viable for an nhl team given their much lower tv revenue than nba. Where teams like Boston and Philly are tenants to nhl controlled arenas. Sixers looking to building their own. Sale of the Celtics, depending on who buys them might also be a catalyst for them to build their own. Was talk a few years ago about them and some land near a casino area. But nothing came to pass.

What the thrasher situation hi lights is the impact one person or entity’s decision has on whether the nhl remains or enters that city. Houston, it’s up to Fertitia. AZ I would imagine hinges on Ishiba. Think most other cities would prefer that if they build a new arena that they also attract the Suns as well to make it the most worthwhile.