Seravalli: Seravalli- Canucks had multiple major offers for JT Miller in January- "Very good chance it happens this summer instead"

[Pierce Hawthorne]

avs fans had been going on about how the canucks would only be able to get a 1st and barron because of sakic etc.. then he gives away a 2nd and barron for pending ufa Lehkonen.

Lehkonen is an RFA, which is also what makes it not an overpayment at all. He's going to be a core piece of this team for the next 4-5 years likely, versus a prospect that wouldn't even be a piece for this team for another 2-3 years if that.

thats true, but also going to be the reason they wont win the cup until he dishes out for some high impact rentals

Except he literally went out and got one of the best deadline acquisitions in Lehkonen this year, and added a solid Top 4D at the deadline.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Remove the retention on Miller, and Id consider it. I feel Marners contract is too much and part of that should be retained if hes coming back

95pt player and our 2 best d prospects for Dickenson, the worst contract in the NHL and 1 year rental. That's some grade A bait right there lol.

 

[BCNate]

I think it will depend what happens in the playoffs, if AVS cant win a cup i see them big game hunting with Miller more than those other players you mentioned.



i guess if the price was right and Toronto adds alot.

Otherwise id rather not trade the biggest trade asset in franchise history for possibly 2 years of Nylander.

Canucks can just trade Miller and for after Forsberg.

That is the kind of thing I can see happening. Trade Miller for picks/prospects, sign Forsberg as UFA with the available money.

 

[dbaz]

appears to be working out just fine as they pursue a championship. let's see what Arizona can do with any of those assets first



because of Barron's potential rating?
because of the illusive mystery player to be drafted in the 2nd ?

montreal still has to properly develop Barron into a position for him to succeed and hit on a player to be drafted in that 2nd round.

Lekhonen is 26 and knows how to play in all three zones.

basing off the fact that people on here wouldnt give more than a 1st and barron for 2 cup runs with miller but now people are on here claiming the lehkonen deal is great.

in that way im saying to those avs fans, you overpaid.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

basing off the fact that people on here wouldnt give more than a 1st and barron for 2 cup runs with miller but now people are on here claiming the lehkonen deal is great.

in that way im saying to those avs fans, you overpaid.

Avs did overpay a little to get their guy.

Vancouver decided to wipe a big portion of Miller's value out by holding on to him. A full playoff run. Lehk was an RFA and GM's care about control. This past TDL was the hottest market we've seen for wingers in a long time, not sure you will get that kind of value moving forward.

The fact that Vancouver is dealing Miller instead of some other salary to make room for D tells us that we're not alone in thinking we might be overvaluing him around here.

 

[Tact]

95pt player and our 2 best d prospects for Dickenson, the worst contract in the NHL and 1 year rental. That's some grade A bait right there lol.

The “worst contract in NHL” would be your #2 defencemen behind Reilly.

Miller at 2.6M is huge value to a contending team looking to win the cup.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

The “worst contract in NHL” would be your #2 defencemen behind Reilly.

Miller at 2.6M is huge value to a contending team looking to win the cup.

Are you actually saying you think Miller at 2.6m for 1 year is worth 3 years of 25 year old Marner and our best 2 prospects?

I won't even bring in the OEL part because you couldn't staple Miller for free to that contract and find a taker.

Canuck fans, come get your boy, he's drunk!

 

[AcerComputer]

I could see that working if Toronto retains 50% on Nylander and adds a 1st, Sandin and Robertson

Delusional.

I think it will depend what happens in the playoffs, if AVS cant win a cup i see them big game hunting with Miller more than those other players you mentioned.



i guess if the price was right and Toronto adds alot.

Otherwise id rather not trade the biggest trade asset in franchise history for possibly 2 years of Nylander.

Canucks can just trade Miller and for after Forsberg.

Why would Toronto add? laughable.

 

[dbaz]

The fact that Vancouver is dealing Miller instead of some other salary to make room for D tells us that we're not alone in thinking we might be overvaluing him around here.

Clearly he is overvalued by vancouver fans on this board, but hes still going to fetch a very good return. The fact the canucks are looking at trading him also doesnt mean they think he is overvalued. Its that he has that value + his possible upcoming cap hit as to to why they would need to dump him as their cap is so screwed up

Realistically who can the canucks dump?
OEL - have to pay to dump
Myers - have to retain or pay to dump
Dickenson - have to pay to dump
Boeser - No return due to his q/o or would have to take back a similar q/o
Pettersson/Hughes - Thats ridiculous
Horvat - Possibly
Garland - would get something, but has a good cap hit going forward. a better asset to use to target a dman.
Pearson - similar player back or a 3rd?

Hes basically the only option to dump for a good haul. But even then it depends on what he wants salary wise

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Clearly he is overvalued by vancouver fans on this board, but hes still going to fetch a very good return. The fact the canucks are looking at trading him also doesnt mean they think he is overvalued. Its that he has that value + his possible upcoming cap hit as to to why they would need to dump him as their cap is so screwed up

Realistically who can the canucks dump?
OEL - have to pay to dump
Myers - have to retain or pay to dump
Dickenson - have to pay to dump
Boeser - No return due to his q/o or would have to take back a similar q/o
Pettersson/Hughes - Thats ridiculous
Horvat - Possibly
Garland - would get something, but has a good cap hit going forward. a better asset to use to target a dman.
Pearson - similar player back or a 3rd?

Hes basically the only option to dump for a good haul. But even then it depends on what he wants salary wise

Who's cap won't be screwed up by a 30 year old player looking for 6 or 7 years on their next deal?

Then, do they have the assets to meet the very high asking price?

I am not asking that in a rhetorical way, I am just having trouble coming up with a list of teams looking for that kind of player. His value as a rental isn't Nylander or Newhook. It's probably more risk heavy, something around picks and prospects. Even Turcotte+1st+2nd like mentioned above seems too steep, I doubt LA wants to make that deal or mess up their cap structure.

I could see Toronto or similar type teams looking for a rental situation, offering something like the Hagel deal. Hagel is not as impactful, but also has an extra year of control, and the market for him was red hot. Tampa likely sees long term potential there and was willing to overpay because they think he can come in and fill the Killorn/Palat hole.

I wonder what Pittsburgh is up to. Miller would fit right into that lineup.

 

[UrbanImpact]

I wouldnt mind Nylander but certainly not for Miller.

Garland for Nylander sure!

Its seems more and more likely though that Nylander will be the sacrificial scapregoat for another disastrous year in Toronto.

I'm not exactly in a hurry to send them a powerforward like JT Miller

Teams I can see going after Miller hard this off-season.

1. Minny
2. Boston
3. Pitt.
4. Philly.
5. NJD
6. LA.
7. CBJ.
8. Nashville
9. Washington
10. Toronto
11. Ottawa
12. Detroit
13. NYR
14. NYI

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I wouldnt mind Nylander but certainly not for Miller.

Garland for Nylander sure!

Its seems more and more likely though that Nylander will be the sacrificial scapregoat for another disastrous year in Toronto.

I'm not exactly in a hurry to send them a powerforward like JT Miller

Teams I can see going after Miller hard this off-season.

1. Minny
2. Boston
3. Pitt.
4. Philly.
5. NJD
6. LA.
7. CBJ.
8. Nashville
9. Washington
10. Toronto
11. Ottawa
12. Detroit
13. NYR
14. NYI

If you aren't interested in Nylander, I would love to hear what you think Minnesota, Boston, Philly and others would be willing to give up?

What would be acceptable from Boston or Minnesota, from a Canuck's fan POV?

 

[YP44]

if one of the goals with the Canucks is to clear cap why would they want Nylander?

 

[Mitch nylander]

I wouldnt mind Nylander but certainly not for Miller.

Garland for Nylander sure!

Its seems more and more likely though that Nylander will be the sacrificial scapregoat for another disastrous year in Toronto.

I'm not exactly in a hurry to send them a powerforward like JT Miller

Teams I can see going after Miller hard this off-season.

1. Minny
2. Boston
3. Pitt.
4. Philly.
5. NJD
6. LA.
7. CBJ.
8. Nashville
9. Washington
10. Toronto
11. Ottawa
12. Detroit
13. NYR
14. NYI

Nylander for Garland wouldn't make much sense from our end. As Nylander is a significantly better player.

A trade of this nature is not to be made between these teams. As the pieces needed to acquire miller (ie: multitude of high level nhl ready prospects, or young center man or young d aren't in Toronto)

The pieces to acquire Nylander aren't necessarily there either. We are looking for either a young top 6 power forward or a young top 4 dman.

------
as for the rest of your post.

Can't see Minnesota being able to afford him, same with boston unless retained and cap comes back the other way.

Philly/NJD/CBJ/Ottawa are rebuilding.

Pittsburgh has no prospects or pieces that would entice them. As does Washington. Both have worse prospects than Toronto and lack young nhl pieces worthwhile in a miller deal.

Realistically LA, and NYR are the best suitors.

 

[57special]

I wouldnt mind Nylander but certainly not for Miller.

Garland for Nylander sure!

Its seems more and more likely though that Nylander will be the sacrificial scapregoat for another disastrous year in Toronto.

I'm not exactly in a hurry to send them a powerforward like JT Miller

Teams I can see going after Miller hard this off-season.

1. Minny
2. Boston
3. Pitt.
4. Philly.
5. NJD
6. LA.
7. CBJ.
8. Nashville
9. Washington
10. Toronto
11. Ottawa
12. Detroit
13. NYR
14. NYI

MN has between 14-15M of dead cap space in each of the next three years. Trading for Miller makes no sense, cap wise. The only reason that Fiala is on the block is due to cap reasons, not because they don't want an 85 pt, 25 yo player.

 

[YP44]

MN has between 14-15M of dead cap space in each of the next three years. Trading for Miller makes no sense, cap wise. The only reason that Fiala is on the block is due to cap reasons, not because they don't want an 85 pt, 25 yo player.

The wild need Boldy and Rossi to contribute ASAP given their cap crunch. Boldy will, but I think it is a lot to ask of Rossi given his healthy issues.

 

[bobbyb2009]

All of the Maple leafs talk.... GRRR

But if Miller plus cap for Nylander and Liljegren etc.???, I still don't think so, but, at least I think about it

It all reminds me of the Maple Leafs fans saying no to Tanev all the time, or offering very little for him. He would have been perfect on that team and made them so much better. Same thing now. Miller is exactly what TO needs now!! They just wont give up enough to get him.

 

[Forge]

Round and round we go

 

[Connor McConnor]

Nylander is a whole three years younger compared to Miller. That isn't enough to make a difference, when we are already considering trading players younger in age in Boeser, Garland (10 days younger) and/or Hoglander. One extra year of control is, according to Seravelli anyway, not worth much, if teams are expected to offer similar packages to what was offered already with one year remaining on Miller's contract. One year extra isn't something we'd be worried about, at all. Nylander is an inferior player in nearly every aspect of the game, and an extra year of control and being three years younger is not enough to overcome this.

What a team does with Miller after trading for him is none of our business. If Miller doesn't like the new destination, or team composition, or management, and chooses not to sign, that doesn't affect us in the slightest or what we expect as a return.

He's 4 years younger and he's not much worse than JT Miller who is clearly at his peak in a career year. Also the gap of 25 to 29 is pretty big, especially when JT is going to want a long term deal and those back end years will be awful.

It'd be pretty good asset management to get someone like Nylander back but in this case I don't think he fits with Vancouver since they already have someone with a similar profile in EP. But you're making it out to seem like JT Miller is going to return a better asset than Nylander is pretty funny to me.

 

[UrbanImpact]

MN has between 14-15M of dead cap space in each of the next three years. Trading for Miller makes no sense, cap wise. The only reason that Fiala is on the block is due to cap reasons, not because they don't want an 85 pt, 25 yo player.

I'm only going by what FS is saying that teams will be doing everything they can such as moving their own cap space to get in the Miller sweepstakes.

To me Miller is exactly what they need.

99 point player, that can be had at 2.6 AAV if Canucks retain

 

[Cogburn]

He's 4 years younger and he's not much worse than JT Miller who is clearly at his peak in a career year. Also the gap of 25 to 29 is pretty big, especially when JT is going to want a long term deal and those back end years will be awful.

It'd be pretty good asset management to get someone like Nylander back but in this case I don't think he fits with Vancouver since they already have someone with a similar profile in EP. But you're making it out to seem like JT Miller is going to return a better asset than Nylander is pretty funny to me.

A 93 birth year and a 96 birth year is three years. Miller also signed what I would describe as a team friendly deal when he was a little younger than Nylander, and Nylander has already had one 11th hour RFA contract so I really don't understand this "he'll be easier to resign" stuff.

I could not disagree more here. A package of high picks and high end prospects would be fine asset management, if we are looking to rebuild. Downgrading from Miller to Nylander (for nothing) to buy a year of UFA status and three years (while Nylander is still a "win now" player) makes very little sense. Miller won't be the only player moved, but if he is will set the tone for the other deals. We won't be looking for a more expensive, slightly younger roster player as the major (only) piece in a deal for Miller. We have Pettersson (as mentioned) and also Boeser already, so there are 0 perimeters of this proposed deal that make sense for the Canucks. If we want to compete, we keep Miller. If we want to rebuild, Nylander doesn't fit much better then Miller. If we were looking for a hockey deal, there are way more pressing matters other than another offense only winger.

 

[Connor McConnor]

A 93 birth year and a 96 birth year is three years. Miller also signed what I would describe as a team friendly deal when he was a little younger than Nylander, and Nylander has already had one 11th hour RFA contract so I really don't understand this "he'll be easier to resign" stuff.

I could not disagree more here. A package of high picks and high end prospects would be fine asset management, if we are looking to rebuild. Downgrading from Miller to Nylander (for nothing) to buy a year of UFA status and three years (while Nylander is still a "win now" player) makes very little sense. Miller won't be the only player moved, but if he is will set the tone for the other deals. We won't be looking for a more expensive, slightly younger roster player as the major (only) piece in a deal for Miller. We have Pettersson (as mentioned) and also Boeser already, so there are 0 perimeters of this proposed deal that make sense for the Canucks. If we want to compete, we keep Miller. If we want to rebuild, Nylander doesn't fit much better then Miller. If we were looking for a hockey deal, there are way more pressing matters other than another offense only winger.

Delete - google is wrong (Says Nylander born in 97).

I just don't think Miller will return as much as people think. Stone got a B+ prospect and a 2nd and that included him already agreeing an extension

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

We need picks, prospects and U25 contributing NHLers.

Something like:

Mid 1st
A-grade Prospect
U25 Defenceman

That would get things started.

 

[Gstank]

This thread is literally just two people arguing about Miller for Nylander lol

 

[mouser]

Vancouver should have traded Miller in January.