OT: Sens Lounge -The four seasons edition

[StoicSensFan]

Also, I think they have diesels which are better on gas.

 

[jbeck5]

Haha nice catch. Semantics. I should have said "better on fuel economy" lol

 

[Stylizer1]

People just see them setting up cameras everywhere. Cops hiding behind trees or pillars. They're everywhere when it comes to handing out tickets.

But then when your car gets stolen or some crime is committed and they're called, seem to do very little investigation other than taking a report and filing it away.

I'm not saying that's how it is, but I'm saying that's how it appears to the public. Then there are other things like how they get these fancy 100k cars every few years while the firetruck is from 1992.

I think a lot of people wish they would put more of their time and effort policing real crime rather than road pirates catching people going 10 over or rolling a stop sign at 2am when no one is around.

It's the look of it that makes it seem like their priorities are out of wack.

As for the roads and how they're designed, I agree that the city needs to alter the set up to make it less normal to speed. Add roundabouts or intersections. Add trees in the island. Add trees on the side. Have street parking. Have crosswalks.


Having a wide open multi lane straight road that a blind person could safely drive 80 down, and then having a 50 limit is stupid.

Alter the road set up. Make it dangerous for anyone to go over 50, and then everyone will slow down.


No one flies down bank street or Preston going 80 when there's no traffic because cars are parked up and down and there's signs and poles and benches a foot off the curb.



If they increase their price, they lose their advantage and will be less successful.

The reason Walmart is more successful is because they still offer the cheapest price for most things.


As soon as they become the same price as everyone else, the mom and pop shops get a chance again.

Because if it's the same price, people will choose to go where the service is better. If it's way cheaper, then they'll go self checkout and not care about customer service.

The goal is to train people to think the are getting a better price. If you know that walmart is going to sell the staple items you use most like Milk, eggs, bread, laundry soap at the best price you won't notice where other things might be a few cents higher. Costco make their profits from memberships and by people feeling they have to get their money's worth from the subscription.

In bigger cities Walmart isn't as detrimental but in the smaller communities it has a dramatic effect. Because they can spread their losses across a vast region and the sheer volume they purchase no independent store can compete. Walmart pretty much put the traditional department store out of business and by offering food they are killing 2 birds with one stone.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Isn't that what any successful business does? Grows revenue...more sales...more sales allow them to purchase more bulk at a lower price, allowing you to sell things at a lower price point and still make profit.


Should we be anti companies being successful enough to grow and cut costs and sale prices?

Absolutely. I was not expressing a position on whether the various box stores are evil or good for society. I was just inserting myself into the conversation about whether Costco hurt small businesses in the same way that Walmart and Amazon do.

I agree with @Stylizer1 that these stores do drain money out of the local economy and send a good chunk of it to foreign owners. And personally, I try at every opportunity to give my money to small local businesses even if it means paying higher prices.

But I understand people preferring the savings and convenience of the box stores, and I don't begrudge them for doing so.

 

[Stylizer1]

Suburbs or not has nothing to do with in the greenbelt or not. The fact you wouldn't consider beacon Hill a suburb because it's inside the greenbelt should give you a hint that your definition is skewed.

You should really start thinking is suburbs as somewhere where it's mainly houses. Urban living comes with it building up instead of out. Houses are building out. Apartments are building up.

If you see a lot of apartments around like you're at Lee's, you can start to talk about urban living. If you're walking down a bunch of side streets with single family homes and bungalows, you're in a suburb lol.

Would you consider the Glebe the suburbs?

 

[Micklebot]

People just see them setting up cameras everywhere. Cops hiding behind trees or pillars. They're everywhere when it comes to handing out tickets.

But then when your car gets stolen or some crime is committed and they're called, seem to do very little investigation other than taking a report and filing it away.

I'm not saying that's how it is, but I'm saying that's how it appears to the public. Then there are other things like how they get these fancy 100k cars every few years while the firetruck is from 1992.

I think a lot of people wish they would put more of their time and effort policing real crime rather than road pirates catching people going 10 over or rolling a stop sign at 2am when no one is around.

It's the look of it that makes it seem like their priorities are out of wack.

Well, using speed cameras instead of patrol officers allows them to redirect manpower away from ensuring safe driving and towards the things you seem to prefer they address, so win win?

As for the roads and how they're designed, I agree that the city needs to alter the set up to make it less normal to speed. Add roundabouts or intersections. Add trees in the island. Add trees on the side. Have street parking. Have crosswalks.


Having a wide open multi lane straight road that a blind person could safely drive 80 down, and then having a 50 limit is stupid.

Alter the road set up. Make it dangerous for anyone to go over 50, and then everyone will slow down.


No one flies down bank street or Preston going 80 when there's no traffic because cars are parked up and down and there's signs and poles and benches a foot off the curb.

Its true some streets have posted limits that are lower than they need to be, but those limits need to be appropriate for most weather conditions and all times of day. That said, I think refining what the appropriate speed limit for a street is given the traffic patterns, pedestrian traffic, bike traffic, histical accidents, ect is a different conversation than how to effectively efforce those posted limits.

The reality is, the cameras are having the desired effect, people are slowing down, and it's opening up resources to be redistributed to other priorities. But I do think street design is a better solution as acts as a natural deterrent to speeding, it just isn't as easy to employ once the streets are already built.

 

[jbeck5]

The goal is to train people to think the are getting a better price. If you know that walmart is going to sell the staple items you use most like Milk, eggs, bread, laundry soap at the best price you won't notice where other things might be a few cents higher. Costco make their profits from memberships and by people feeling they have to get their money's worth from the subscription.

In bigger cities Walmart isn't as detrimental but in the smaller communities it has a dramatic effect. Because they can spread their losses across a vast region and the sheer volume they purchase no independent store can compete. Walmart pretty much put the traditional department store out of business and by offering food they are killing 2 birds with one stone.

I think you would be hard pressed to find an item at Wal Mart that is more expensive than a small shop.

Even comparing to like metro, whether cat food, or dairy, or frozen goods, or toilet paper, etc, it seems to always be cheaper at Wal Mart.

So I don't personally see the "you'll save on some items, but pay more for others" thing you describe...what items are you paying more for to make up for paying less on the other items?

The other thing is, because they sell more, they have fresher items. When I look at bread or creme or milk, I get like 2 weeks for bread before the best before, and a month for milk/creme.

When I go to a smaller grocery store, their bread is best before 5 days from now, and their milk goes bad in 14 days. All of a sudden we can't even take advantage of any of their 2/deals because we're not going to drink 6 bags of milk in 2 weeks...it's just me and my wife lol.

Whereas I've taken advantage of the 2/ deals at Walmart for creme because they last a month and we can go through a carton in a couple weeks.

 

[jbeck5]

Would you consider the Glebe the suburbs?

Inner city suburbs...similar to Vanier.

If you can walk down street after street and it's all houses and schools and parks with only local traffic, you're basically describing a suburb.

The glebe is interesting because it gets outside traffic on occasion for football games or what not.

I bet if Lansdowne stadium wasn't there, you would feel more comfortable calling it a suburb.

It was actually exactly that when it was established. A suburb. Leave places like lower town, and get nice land and a nice house in the glebe.

 

[Micklebot]

Suburbs or not has nothing to do with in the greenbelt or not. The fact you wouldn't consider beacon Hill a suburb because it's inside the greenbelt should give you a hint that your definition is skewed.

You should really start thinking is suburbs as somewhere where it's mainly houses. Urban living comes with it building up instead of out. Houses are building out. Apartments are building up.

If you see a lot of apartments around like you're at Lee's, you can start to talk about urban living. If you're walking down a bunch of side streets with single family homes and bungalows, you're in a suburb lol.

I'm with you on this one, Suburbs definitions are not universal, sometimes it's just proximity to a city, ie just outside the city limits, other times it's characteristics of the neighborhood, depending on who you ask. The latter to me is far more useful as a contrast to Urban, which typically denotes higher population density with mixed use zoning.

Suburbs tends to bring to mind singles and perhaps some row housing, spaced out on crescents, with any commercial zones centrally located in strip malls. You don't have alot of multi family units in the burbs, and certainly not a lot of high rise apartments.

 

[jbeck5]

Well, using speed cameras instead of patrol officers allows them to redirect manpower away from ensuring safe driving and towards the things you seem to prefer they address, so win win?




Its true some streets have posted limits that are lower than they need to be, but those limits need to be appropriate for most weather conditions and all times of day. That said, I think refining what the appropriate speed limit for a street is given the traffic patterns, pedestrian traffic, bike traffic, histical accidents, ect is a different conversation than how to effectively efforce those posted limits.

The reality is, the cameras are having the desired effect, people are slowing down, and it's opening up resources to be redistributed to other priorities. But I do think street design is a better solution as acts as a natural deterrent to speeding, it just isn't as easy to employ once the streets are already built.

I would agree with you about that, but always seeing cops still hiding to catch people or parked a timmies gives a bad look. Sure, they could be doing paperwork. But it's the appearance to the public.

It looks like they're a lot more interested in generating revenue than solving real crime. I'm just sharing the vibes i get from the general public when these things come up.


You'll never hear of ambulances or fire trucks doing certain things just to get revenue. Only the cops. That's why the public is generally more supportive of firemen and healthcare workers than policeman. It's the appearance to the public.

We agree on the second paragraph. Going to Europe and seeing all the slower speed streets being tighter and then the open roads having high limits is refreshing.

Here, we'll have unmarked quiet side streets with a limit of 50km/h. Your quiet cul de sac? 50.

Then your main artery wide open road with great sightlines and no kids around...30 or 40. Makes no sense.

Like, why is mer bleu a 60 from Innes to Brian Coburn, but Brian Coburn itself which is tiny compared to mer bleu, and actually has pedestrians and houses near by, a 70?

 

[Loach]

Inner city suburbs...similar to Vanier.

If you can walk down street after street and it's all houses and schools and parks with only local traffic, you're basically describing a suburb.

The glebe is interesting because it gets outside traffic on occasion for football games or what not.

I bet if Lansdowne stadium wasn't there, you would feel more comfortable calling it a suburb.

It was actually exactly that when it was established. A suburb. Leave places like lower town, and get nice land and a nice house in the glebe.

Traffic on occasion in the Glebe? Have you been there? It's busy all the time. Got busier when Main and Elgin streets got reduced to two lanes. It's like the last north/south to and from of the city.

 

[Relapsing]

You'll never hear of ambulances or fire trucks doing certain things just to get revenue. Only the cops. That's why the public is generally more supportive of firemen and healthcare workers than policeman. It's the appearance to the public.

.. I mean, I think there are a myriad of reasons why people might be less supportive of cops than fireman or healthcare workers, and I'd bet that giving people fines are pretty low down their list of reasons.

 

[Masked]

Inner city suburbs...similar to Vanier.

If you can walk down street after street and it's all houses and schools and parks with only local traffic, you're basically describing a suburb.

The glebe is interesting because it gets outside traffic on occasion for football games or what not.

I bet if Lansdowne stadium wasn't there, you would feel more comfortable calling it a suburb.

It was actually exactly that when it was established. A suburb. Leave places like lower town, and get nice land and a nice house in the glebe.

With Bank Street in the Glebe it is not suburban.

You can zoom in on the map here to see what is suburban and what isn't in Ottawa - Canadian Suburbs Atlas - School of Cities.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

MSN

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Also, I think they have diesels which are better on gas.

Correct the Diesel powered vehicle practically use Zero Gas…..

 

[Micklebot]

.. I mean, I think there are a myriad of reasons why people might be less supportive of cops than fireman or healthcare workers, and I'd bet that giving people fines are pretty low down their list of reasons.

I think perhaps some of those other factors might play into why people see speeding tickets as done "just to get revenue" rather than as public safety measures intended to curb dangerous behaviour.

But yeah, on the list of reasons police have a poor reputation among the public, tickets are probt pretty low...

 

[jbeck5]

Traffic on occasion in the Glebe? Have you been there? It's busy all the time. Got busier when Main and Elgin streets got reduced to two lanes. It's like the last north/south to and from of the city.

Bank street is busy, yes. But so is Innes. Doesn't mean Orleans isn't a suburb.

When me and my gf started dating, she lived on 3rd. We would take walks throughout the glebe. Lots of quiet side streets with nice homes. Parks every other corner. That to me, is suburban living.

 

[jbeck5]

With Bank Street in the Glebe it is not suburban.

You can zoom in on the map here to see what is suburban and what isn't in Ottawa - Canadian Suburbs Atlas - School of Cities.

It's right on the edge of "transit suburb".

But like I said, the glebe is tricky. It started out as a suburb, but since, there has been rezoning to add tall apartments, which aren't suburbs...so I'm ok with it going either way. I'm not dying on the hill of is the glebe a suburb or not. It used to be, it's less so now. Dealers choice.

I think perhaps some of those other factors might play into why people see speeding tickets as done "just to get revenue" rather than as public safety measures intended to curb dangerous behaviour.

But yeah, on the list of reasons police have a poor reputation among the public, tickets are probt pretty low...

Depends on the demographic.

If you were talking to a black kid in the states who has faced or seen his friends face racism or being targeted or something, then yeah, speeding tickets are irrelevant. (Not saying young blacks aren't targetted in Canada, it's just way less of a headline)

If you talk to a 50 year old white male in the suburbs, tickets are probably higher on their list.


In the states it seems to be black vs blue in the headlines. We don't get that in Canadian suburbs. The tickets handed out climb closer to the top of the list.

 

[Loach]

Bank street is busy, yes. But so is Innes. Doesn't mean Orleans isn't a suburb.

When me and my gf started dating, she lived on 3rd. We would take walks throughout the glebe. Lots of quiet side streets with nice homes. Parks every other corner. That to me, is suburban living.

You just compared the Glebe to Innes? You lost bro. Enjoy Boston Pizza.

 

[Stylizer1]

I think you would be hard pressed to find an item at Wal Mart that is more expensive than a small shop.

Even comparing to like metro, whether cat food, or dairy, or frozen goods, or toilet paper, etc, it seems to always be cheaper at Wal Mart.

So I don't personally see the "you'll save on some items, but pay more for others" thing you describe...what items are you paying more for to make up for paying less on the other items?

The other thing is, because they sell more, they have fresher items. When I look at bread or creme or milk, I get like 2 weeks for bread before the best before, and a month for milk/creme.

When I go to a smaller grocery store, their bread is best before 5 days from now, and their milk goes bad in 14 days. All of a sudden we can't even take advantage of any of their 2/deals because we're not going to drink 6 bags of milk in 2 weeks...it's just me and my wife lol.

Whereas I've taken advantage of the 2/ deals at Walmart for creme because they last a month and we can go through a carton in a couple weeks.

I'm referring to Walmart vs all of their competition. They obviously have better prices than interdependent retailers which I stated. People assume because the things they purchase most like the staples are the best prices they assume the rest are priced comparatively. No one notices the things that are 10-40 cents higher like a jar of pickles because that wouldn't be an item you pick up each week or month for that matter so they can get away with having the price a little higher. For items like bread, milk, eggs etc that gets people through the door. I have many times found better priced items for non food items at Canadian tire than at Walmart.

 

[BigRig4]

I think you would be hard pressed to find an item at Wal Mart that is more expensive than a small shop.

Even comparing to like metro, whether cat food, or dairy, or frozen goods, or toilet paper, etc, it seems to always be cheaper at Wal Mart.

So I don't personally see the "you'll save on some items, but pay more for others" thing you describe...what items are you paying more for to make up for paying less on the other items?

The other thing is, because they sell more, they have fresher items. When I look at bread or creme or milk, I get like 2 weeks for bread before the best before, and a month for milk/creme.

When I go to a smaller grocery store, their bread is best before 5 days from now, and their milk goes bad in 14 days. All of a sudden we can't even take advantage of any of their 2/deals because we're not going to drink 6 bags of milk in 2 weeks...it's just me and my wife lol.

Whereas I've taken advantage of the 2/ deals at Walmart for creme because they last a month and we can go through a carton in a couple weeks.

Yeah I hate to credit a big corporation… but it’s really apparent recently that while the Canadian grocers have been raising the prices on everything Walmart has been relatively consistent.

Costco is still the best value I think as long as you’re careful about only buying what you actually need and will use.

 

[Micklebot]

With Bank Street in the Glebe it is not suburban.

You can zoom in on the map here to see what is suburban and what isn't in Ottawa - Canadian Suburbs Atlas - School of Cities.

That's an interesting site, I do find their definition of suburb a bit odd, it's based on higher use of transit or cars than average, that's as good of a way as any I suppose.

With their definition, In theory, improving transit could convert an urban neighborhood into a transit suburb. Seems odd.

 

[Stylizer1]

Bank street is busy, yes. But so is Innes. Doesn't mean Orleans isn't a suburb.

When me and my gf started dating, she lived on 3rd. We would take walks throughout the glebe. Lots of quiet side streets with nice homes. Parks every other corner. That to me, is suburban living.

We can all agree that all neighborhoods out side the greenbelt are suburbs and some inside by depending what definition you go with then? Just because there is a neighborhood with single family homes doesn't mean it's a suburb in my opinion. At one time when the city was small you would have classified the Glebe, Westboro, Beconhill, as suburbs but as the city intensifies and density expands from the center out these neighborhoods will lose that distinction. Orleans, Barhaven, Kanata are all in the process of building high rises, does this mean they no longer meet the suburban threshold? This not an important argument concerning the argument I was making.

 

[Micklebot]

Yeah I hate to credit a big corporation… but it’s really apparent recently that while the Canadian grocers have been raising the prices on everything Walmart has been relatively consistent.

Costco is still the best value I think as long as you’re careful about only buying what you actually need and will use.

I find Costco is good on average, but you can often get better deals by buying what happens to be on sale from the regular grocers. You might have to hit up a couple stores to get what you need though.

 

[Stylizer1]

Yeah I hate to credit a big corporation… but it’s really apparent recently that while the Canadian grocers have been raising the prices on everything Walmart has been relatively consistent.

Costco is still the best value I think as long as you’re careful about only buying what you actually need and will use.

The thing is if you shop around you can find way better deals on food than you would gt at costco. Costco also have way less inventory than your regular grocery store. Like I said the majority of their profits come from memberships.