OT: Sens Lounge -The four seasons edition

[Tnuoc Alucard]

 

[StoicSensFan]

How about them speeding ticket cameras. I heard people are getting tickets for going 5kph over.... wowee

 

[Stylizer1]

How about them speeding ticket cameras. I heard people are getting tickets for going 5kph over.... wowee

They artificially lower the speed limits on the streets where they put those camera's knowing that people will likely travel faster because it feels normal to do so. This is such a money grab/ hidden tax on people. All in the name of making streets safer yet there is no evidence that there was ever a problem that needed solving.

 

[Senscore]

thank god my license plates are so poorly made they are unreadable

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

They artificially lower the speed limits on the streets where they put those camera's knowing that people will likely travel faster because it feels normal to do so. This is such a money grab/ hidden tax on people. All in the name of making streets safer yet there is no evidence that there was ever a problem that needed solving.

Really wish they would put one in my street.

The speed limit is 30 kph, but I regularly see people zipping by at 60 or 70. My neighbours have two young daughters and every time I see them walking to the park it stresses me a little bit knowing that one of these jackasses might lose control and veer on to the sidewalk (which has happened twice in the last few years).

 

[Stylizer1]

Really wish they would put one in my street.

The speed limit is 30 kph, but I regularly see people zipping by at 60 or 70. My neighbours have two young daughters and every time I see them walking to the park it stresses me a little bit knowing that one of these jackasses might lose control and veer on to the sidewalk (which has happened twice in the last few years).

Who loses control going 60-70 kmh? Was your street always 30kmh because that seems ridiculously slow for a street? People are just not getting hit by cars as often as these councilors fear they might if they don't reduce speed limits across the country. This is designed to give the impression that people need more protection and justify stupid measures to take more money from people. Distracted driver is far worse than someone going 10 km's over the speed limit. Would you be in favour of cars automatically giving you a ticket if you speed through a GPS application?

As for veering on to the sidewalk over the last few years, were you there to witness it?

 

[Micklebot]

thank god my license plates are so poorly made they are unreadable

So, if it's because they are peeling like crazy, odds are yours are from a defective batch, and you can get them replaced free of charge. the fine for driving with a damaged plate is $100, so do with this information what you will.

 

[Micklebot]

Who loses control going 60-70 kmh? Was your street always 30kmh because that seems ridiculously slow for a street? People are just not getting hit by cars as often as these councilors fear they might if they don't reduce speed limits across the country. This is designed to give the impression that people need more protection and justify stupid measures to take more money from people. Distracted driver is far worse than someone going 10 km's over the speed limit. Would you be in favour of cars automatically giving you a ticket if you speed through a GPS application?

As for veering on to the sidewalk over the last few years, were you there to witness it?

Speed limits on residential city roads have been 30-40 km/h for a while, though most are still 40, 30 isn't all that uncommon. It just depends on the road. If you're going 70 down some of the roads in my area losing control would be a very real possibility, as they are pretty windy, particularly if you're coming up to oncoming traffic around a bend with cars parked on the side of the road or if a kid steps out into the the road to grab an errant ball.

The relationship between speed and serious injuries or fatalities to pedestrians is well documented, 10 km absolutely makes a difference,

I don't get people complaining about a 10km/h difference on residential streets. The difference between going 40 and 30 km/h on the maybe 2-3km you likely travel down the residential roads of a given trip maybe adds a min to your travel. People need to get over themselves and realize the aren't more important than everybody else.

 

[bicboi64]

I don't get people complaining about a 10km/h difference on residential streets. The difference between going 40 and 30 km/h on the maybe 2-3km you likely travel down the residential roads of a given trip maybe adds a min to your travel. People need to get over themselves and realize the aren't more important than everybody else.

I'm a minute man, I got places to be

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Speed limits on residential city roads have been 30-40 km/h for a while, though most are still 40, 30 isn't all that uncommon. It just depends on the road. If you're going 70 down some of the roads in my area losing control would be a very real possibility, as they are pretty windy, particularly if you're coming up to oncoming traffic around a bend with cars parked on the side of the road or if a kid steps out into the the road to grab an errant ball.

The relationship between speed and serious injuries or fatalities to pedestrians is well documented, 10 km absolutely makes a difference,

I don't get people complaining about a 10km/h difference on residential streets. The difference between going 40 and 30 km/h on the maybe 2-3km you likely travel down the residential roads of a given trip maybe adds a min to your travel. People need to get over themselves and realize the aren't more important than everybody else.

And asides from accidents, you'll lose half your vehicle in some of the potholes around this province. You have to go slow if you don't want a massive repair bill in a lot of areas these days.

 

[Stylizer1]

So, if it's because they are peeling like crazy, odds are yours are from a defective batch, and you can get them replaced free of charge. the fine for driving with a damaged plate is $100, so do with this information what you will.

I drove with damaged plates for 10 plus years. cops don't care. There are too many on the road.

 

[Micklebot]

I drove with damaged plates for 10 plus years. cops don't care. There are too many on the road.

It's one of those add on things, if you get pulled over they may tack it on to whatever else they are doing. More likely they'll just tell you to get it addressed, but the more pertinent fact is it may be free to fix,

 

[Stylizer1]

Speed limits on residential city roads have been 30-40 km/h for a while, though most are still 40, 30 isn't all that uncommon. It just depends on the road. If you're going 70 down some of the roads in my area losing control would be a very real possibility, as they are pretty windy, particularly if you're coming up to oncoming traffic around a bend with cars parked on the side of the road or if a kid steps out into the the road to grab an errant ball.

The relationship between speed and serious injuries or fatalities to pedestrians is well documented, 10 km absolutely makes a difference,

I don't get people complaining about a 10km/h difference on residential streets. The difference between going 40 and 30 km/h on the maybe 2-3km you likely travel down the residential roads of a given trip maybe adds a min to your travel. People need to get over themselves and realize the aren't more important than everybody else.

Your graphic makes sense but how many people are actually getting hit by those "speeding" cars? I can't recall any 30kmh roads anywhere unless they are on private streets/condo area's. The only accidents with cars and people over the last 5 years have primarily been bike vs car. Those happen in intersections in high density area's like downtown, not driving down your neighborhood streets. When was the last story of a kid getting killed by a car traveling at any speed? The last story I remember was a 13 year old boy killed in Orleans by a 79 year old man who didn't slow down while merging onto highway 174 in 2019.

It's one of those add on things, if you get pulled over they may tack it on to whatever else they are doing. More likely they'll just tell you to get it addressed, but the more pertinent fact is it may be free to fix,

Or you don't get dinged going 5 kmh over the speed limit. I've been pulled over a handful of times over the last 10 years and it may have been brought up once. Didn't change a thang.

 

[coladin]

Your graphic makes sense but how many people are actually getting hit by those "speeding" cars? I can't recall any 30kmh roads anywhere unless they are on private streets/condo area's. The only accidents with cars and people over the last 5 years have primarily been bike vs car. Those happen in intersections in high density area's like downtown, not driving down your neighborhood streets. When was the last story of a kid getting killed by a car traveling at any speed? The last story I remember was a 13 year old boy killed in Orleans by a 79 year old man who didn't slow down while merging onto highway 174 in 2019.


Or you don't get dinged going 5 kmh over the speed limit. I've been pulled over a handful of times over the last 10 years and it may have been brought up once. Didn't change a thang.

My street and neighborhood is 40. I regularly go 30 and advise everyone in my family to do the same.

 

[BankStreetParade]

They artificially lower the speed limits on the streets where they put those camera's knowing that people will likely travel faster because it feels normal to do so. This is such a money grab/ hidden tax on people. All in the name of making streets safer yet there is no evidence that there was ever a problem that needed solving.

You should see what's happening on the roads in Toronto. Absolute f***ing maniacs who deserve every f***ing ticket they get. Absolute shitshow of speeding and dangerous driving. I'm up for them making every street a speed camera trap and I don't exactly drive slowly myself. They need to do something to curb this absolute insanity.

 

[Micklebot]

Your graphic makes sense but how many people are actually getting hit by those "speeding" cars? I can't recall any 30kmh roads anywhere unless they are on private streets/condo area's. The only accidents with cars and people over the last 5 years have primarily been bike vs car. Those happen in intersections in high density area's like downtown, not driving down your neighborhood streets. When was the last story of a kid getting killed by a car traveling at any speed? The last story I remember was a 13 year old boy killed in Orleans by a 79 year old man who didn't slow down while merging onto highway 174 in 2019.


Or you don't get dinged going 5 kmh over the speed limit. I've been pulled over a handful of times over the last 10 years and it may have been brought up once. Didn't change a thang.

30km/h roads have to meet specific criteria, it has to be a local road and or meet certain pedestrian presence thresholds, there are guidelines wrt frequency of transit routes (no more than three per hour unless prevailing traffic conditions result in them going <30 anyways), there are guidelines relating to whether a school is present, ect. The initiative only started about 7 years ago.

Wrt accidents, where are you getting your stats from when you say in the last 5 years it's primarily been bikes not pedestrians? The city released a study a few years ago that had the stats on fatal collisions, and from 2017-2020, there were 4 fatal collisions with cyclists, compared to 22 with pedestrians, so that doesn't seem to align with what you're saying.

Actually, the city of Ottawa has data available on all collisions, it goes from Jan 2017 to Dec 2022, I was able to pull some quick stats from it, but it doesn't include data on the speed limit that I could find,

Type​	Total​	Maj Inj​	Fatalities​
Pedestrian​	1663​	162​	40​
Bike​	1361​	82​	9​

 

[Stylizer1]

30km/h roads have to meet specific criteria, it has to be a local road and or meet certain pedestrian presence thresholds, there are guidelines wrt frequency of transit routes (no more than three per hour unless prevailing traffic conditions result in them going <30 anyways), there are guidelines relating to whether a school is present, ect. The initiative only started about 7 years ago.

Wrt accidents, where are you getting your stats from when you say in the last 5 years it's primarily been bikes not pedestrians? The city released a study a few years ago that had the stats on fatal collisions, and from 2017-2020, there were 4 fatal collisions with cyclists, compared to 22 with pedestrians, so that doesn't seem to align with what you're saying.

Actually, the city of Ottawa has data available on all collisions, it goes from Jan 2017 to Dec 2022, I was able to pull some quick stats from it, but it doesn't include data on the speed limit that I could find,

Type​	Total​	Maj Inj​	Fatalities​
Pedestrian​	1663​	162​	40​
Bike​	1361​	82​	9​

Speed limit is the point of argument so its kind of important.

 

[Stylizer1]

My street and neighborhood is 40. I regularly go 30 and advise everyone in my family to do the same.

and it probably was 50 not too long ago. During covid my street went from 50 to 40 based the perception that it makes it safer.

 

[Micklebot]

and it probably was 50 not too long ago. During covid my street went from 50 to 40 based the perception that it makes it safer.

It's been a 40 since they 80s when the development went up. The perception happens to be backed up by research, whether you think the difference in how much safer it is validates the loss of a minute or two in your commute is up for debate, but whether or not lowering speeds increases safety really isn't

Here's an example of a study looking at the impact of reducing the speed limit of 50 to 40 in Edmonton,

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0001457523004268?dgcid=coauthor

Speed limit is the point of argument so its kind of important.

Well, when you have stats to share that can be sourced with that information, feel free to post them. I'm just trying to add something empirical to the discussion rather than just taking random posters at their word when they make a claim that doesn't seem to align with reality.

 

[Beech]

And asides from accidents, you'll lose half your vehicle in some of the potholes around this province. You have to go slow if you don't want a massive repair bill in a lot of areas these days

There is a beauty. On Mitch Owens and Van Villet road in Manotick. I mean a beauty. I cycle past it regularly. They fixed it (RIGHT!!!)... Man, I hope city workers, work for free. We would die of shame if we realized we are actually paying them.

this baby is collapsing again. And it is right in line with the tire path in the road.

Manotick has its cowboys with dough.. I mean Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Vets.. and these cowboys love themselves a Hoedown. In another month, that pothole will return to its original 1 foot x 2 foot hole, and OOOHHHWAAHHH, what them cowboys are gonna see.

What do you figure a torn up front or rear drive assembly on one of these babies costs? Or how will ole' Molly housewife be, when in her Porsche SUV, she is thrown across the intersection.

You think that I would get in trouble if I installed a camera there, just to watch the carnage?

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Who loses control going 60-70 kmh? Was your street always 30kmh because that seems ridiculously slow for a street? People are just not getting hit by cars as often as these councilors fear they might if they don't reduce speed limits across the country. This is designed to give the impression that people need more protection and justify stupid measures to take more money from people. Distracted driver is far worse than someone going 10 km's over the speed limit. Would you be in favour of cars automatically giving you a ticket if you speed through a GPS application?

As for veering on to the sidewalk over the last few years, were you there to witness it?

Both days where someone lost control were light snow days. Because it’s a hill, people typically go too fast without realizing it, apply their brakes, and pretty quickly the road gets polished to become very slick.

In both cases I witnessed the aftermath… in one case the car had jumped the sidewalk and was sitting atop a 4 foot high snowbank, in the other case the car plowed across my neighbours front yard and got impaled on a traffic sign. Note that this is not the neighbour with young kids, so there was no one out playing in the lawn. In both cases the driver needed to call a tow truck.

My entire neighborhood is 30 kph limit, not sure if that is common or not.

The point is, obviously, that speed limits and reasonable enforcement measures are very good ideas in some cases.

I am generally becoming more and more annoyed by the bad driving which permeates this city — and I include the distracted drivers as well as the Lewis Hamilton wannabes.

 

[Stylizer1]

It's been a 40 since they 80s when the development went up. The perception happens to be backed up by research, whether you think the difference in how much safer it is validates the loss of a minute or two in your commute is up for debate, but whether or not lowering speeds increases safety really isn't

Here's an example of a study looking at the impact of reducing the speed limit of 50 to 40 in Edmonton,

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0001457523004268?dgcid=coauthor

Well, when you have stats to share that can be sourced with that information, feel free to post them. I'm just trying to add something empirical to the discussion rather than just taking random posters at their word when they make a claim that doesn't seem to align with reality.

And if you reduced the speed limit to 10 kmh there would zero fatalities.

There are no stats to show for what I am arguing in the neighborhoods in Ottawa, just ones in general. You tried to post info that had no relevance to the argument but backs up your facts that people do get killed on roads. great

What is the threshold most people are willing to accept is the question not how can the city rob people of more money.

 

[Stylizer1]

Both days where someone lost control were light snow days. Because it’s a hill, people typically go too fast without realizing it, apply their brakes, and pretty quickly the road gets polished to become very slick.

In both cases I witnessed the aftermath… in one case the car had jumped the sidewalk and was sitting atop a 4 foot high snowbank, in the other case the car plowed across my neighbours front yard and got impaled on a traffic sign. Note that this is not the neighbour with young kids, so there was no one out playing in the lawn. In both cases the driver needed to call a tow truck.

My entire neighborhood is 30 kph limit, not sure if that is common or not.

The point is, obviously, that speed limits and reasonable enforcement measures are very good ideas in some cases.

I am generally becoming more and more annoyed by the bad driving which permeates this city — and I include the distracted drivers as well as the Lewis Hamilton wannabes.

Light snow days are usually the worst for driving so having a year round speed reduction seems a little excessive.

 

[Micklebot]

And if you reduced the speed limit to 10 kmh there would zero fatalities.

There are no stats to show for what I am arguing in the neighborhoods in Ottawa, just ones in general. You tried to post info that had no relevance to the argument but backs up your facts that people do get killed on roads. great

What is the threshold most people are willing to accept is the question not how can the city rob people of more money.

Are you sure there are no stats, or just that you don't have access to them? You made a claim that most accidents are actually bikes, if the ratio remains constant, the stats I posted suggest otherwise. If you don't have stats to support your claim, then why are you making that claim as though it is a fact?

I posted a study that showed a general reduction in collisions when reducing limits from 50 to 40, sure, it's Edmonton, and not Ottawa, but the principles at play are likely to transfer. Combine that with the stats on estimated survival rates at various speeds and you get an indication of the impact on safety

You made a claim there was no evidence there was a problem that needed solving, well the city releases annual collision reports, those reports are the basis for their determination that an action plan was needed, they made an action plan with a goal of a 20% reduction in fatal and major injury collisions by 2024 and the changes your seeing are the mechanisms they have put in place to realize that goal.

Getting a speeding ticket in the mail for going 5 over the limit or whatever sucks, but there's a simple solution that has a minimal impact on your life, just don't speed. The city isn't robing people of money, people are choosing to break the law, and have to deal with the consequences. The penalty for speeding in this context is $3/km over the limit, if you think getting to your destination 1 min quicker is really that important, then you can accept the potential of being fined $15-$30.

 

[StoicSensFan]

I was hoping more people would vent about getting dinged on King Edward, didn't know it would evolve.. I'm so sorry. Speeding is bad, but 5kph over for a ticket in a 40 is a little much. What if I just sneezed and touched the throttle?