OT: Sens Lounge LXXXVIV - Roman Numerals!!!!

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BonkTastic

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I totally agree. In the above story, the teacher isn't allowed to call a student by pronouns and they regularly change their gender. That's not ok. Identify as whatever you please but don't impose restrictions on others. There's acceptance and then there's insanity.

Sure, but this isn't an example of "gender-fluidity being an issue".

This is an example of "a self-absorbed doushe being a narcissistic problem child". It happens across all sexes, genders, races, and species. It's just more common now because, like I said above: people are wasting their outrage on stupid things.
 

Benjamin

Differently Financed
Jun 14, 2010
31,148
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Ultimately, at the end of the day, the way other people self-identify just doesn't affect my life in any negative way, so ultimately I could care less.
Someone could sexually identify as a 3-piece sofa set for all I care. If it makes them happy, whatever.

Not my life + doesn't hurt anyone else = IDGAF.



The older I get, the more I realize that there are far more things in life that really don't matter as much as people want it to matter than I had originally thought when I was younger.

People these days focus their outrage on really stupid ****, IMHO.
People have as much right to be whatever gender they want as I have the right to be skeptical about them.

Like FQL just said. Id also add kids being influenced by their parents into something they aren't. Leading to a decision that can't be undone. Surgery. Or even just leading to a lifetime of believing something false.

It's similar to religion. People have the right to believe what they want, but I prefer people believing true things.
 

BonkTastic

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People have as much right to be whatever gender they want as I have the right to be skeptical.

Like FQL just said. Id also add kids being influenced by their parents into something they aren't. Leading to a decision that can't be undone. Surgery. Or even just leading to a lifetime of believing something false.

It's similar to religion. People have the right to believe what they want, but I prefer people believing true things.

1) You absolutely have the right to be skeptical.

Hell, you even have the right to believe that invisible piranhas will devour you whole if you aren't polite and generous and good, if that's what you want to believe.

You do you. It's a crazy world, man. Just don't hurt anyone else, and you're solid.


2) comparing "believing in religion" to "believing in alternate sexual identity" is pretty flimsy, B.S. argument. Just calling it like I see it, bro.

Your "I prefer to believe in true things" quip, when you readily admit not even a day ago to being completely ignorant of the science, is hilarious from a defendable standpoint. I'm sure you've spent the last hour and a half completely educating yourself on this subject to be an authority of it's truthiness, right? Right.
 
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FolignoQuantumLeap

Don't Hold The Door
Mar 16, 2009
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Sure, but this isn't an example of "gender-fluidity being an issue".

This is an example of "a self-absorbed doushe being a narcissistic problem child". It happens across all sexes, genders, races, and species. It's just more common now because, like I said above: people are wasting their outrage on stupid things.

I think we pretty much agree here.

I'll ask you this, if I call a Transgender person a self absorbed ******, for demanding they be called by a certain pronoun and getting irate when someone doesn't do so, how would the general public react?
 

BonkTastic

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I want to the science behind the claims to get a better understanding.

Like FQL just said. Id also add kids being influenced by their parents into something they aren't. Leading to a decision that can't be undone. Surgery. Or even just leading to a lifetime of believing something false.

It's similar to religion. People have the right to believe what they want, but I prefer people believing true things.

Also: why are you even bothering to ask for scientific data in the first place when you seem confident that the issue is social in nature?
 

BonkTastic

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I think we pretty much agree here.

I'll ask you this, if I call a Transgender person a self absorbed ******, for demanding they be called by a certain pronoun and getting irate when someone doesn't do so, how would the general public react?

People care too much about stupid labels. I'm sure the general public would blow it out of proportion, and I'm sure I wouldn't give a ****.

Just treat everyone with equal respect, and you should be fine. Just be sure to make an effort, you know? If you look like a dude and I accidentally call you "sir", instead of "madam", it doesn't mean it is a lack of respect, it's just that my lifetime experiences have trained me to think that people who look like men are statistically likely to be a man.

If you look like a guy but identify as a woman, I'm not being intolerant if I call you a man (or woman, depending on the case), I just had a 98% chance of getting it right, and my gamble didn't pay off. Just tell me what you want me to call you. Man, woman, person, fridge, chesterfield, 1968 Ford Falcon. Whatever. Just don't be a massive dick about it.

I'm going to judge you far more from your attitude than I am about what you want to be called.
 

Benjamin

Differently Financed
Jun 14, 2010
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2) comparing "believing in religion" to "believing in alternate sexual identity" is pretty flimsy, B.S. argument. Just calling it like I see it, bro.

Your "I prefer to believe in true things" quip, when you readily admit not even a day ago to being completely ignorant of the science, is hilarious from a defendable standpoint. I'm sure you've spent the last hour and a half completely educating yourself on this subject to be an authority of it's truthiness, right? Right.

When I don't know if something is true or false, I default to false until I see evidence saying otherwise. Im asking questions and I read some of that wikipedia page to get a better understanding.

I compared it to religion because both of their louder advocates are asserting their feelings as truth without real evidence to back it up.

I want believe true things and I dont know how much truth their is to all these different genders. So If there is truth behind the genders, I want to know.

Also: why are you even bothering to ask for scientific data in the first place when you seem confident that the issue is social in nature?

I don't think it is social at all.
 

Babych Moustache

Don'tBashThe'Stache
Jul 4, 2008
850
1
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If you look like a guy but identify as a woman, I'm not being intolerant if I call you a man (or woman, depending on the case), I just had a 98% chance of getting it right, and my gamble didn't pay off. Just tell me what you want me to call you. Man, woman, person, fridge, chesterfield, 1968 Ford Falcon. Whatever. Just don't be a massive dick about it.

I'm going to judge you far more from your attitude than I am about what you want to be called.

Well said... some people are just looking for a fight sometimes... wanting others to slip up and say the wrong thing. If I make a mistake, it's cause I'm learning how to better interact with you... and if you politely and respectfully correct me and help me learn how to properly address you, awesome - we're all learning! But if someone who identifies as gender neutral/gender fluid is just waiting to jump down someone's throat because that day I said he/she/etc., then how as a species are we to move ahead? Like I said, some people (in all walks of life) just want a confrontation... fight for what you think is right, but don't be a dick about it to trip up people who are just trying to learn how to interact respectfully with a new way of thinking for so many of us...

/end rant
 

Babych Moustache

Don'tBashThe'Stache
Jul 4, 2008
850
1
Ottawa
Just tell me what you want me to call you. Man, woman, person, fridge, chesterfield, 1968 Ford Falcon. Whatever. Just don't be a massive dick about it.

And for the record Bonkers, I would like to be called by my first car ever - 1989 Ford Probe. How insensitive of you to call me a 1968 Ford Falcon. The nerve... :sarcasm:

3691630003_large.jpg
 

BonkTastic

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When I don't know if something is true or false, I default to false until I see evidence saying otherwise. Im asking questions and I read some of that wikipedia page to get a better understanding.

Skepticism is healthy.

Making categorically "true/false" statements before doing the research isn't.
 

Benjamin

Differently Financed
Jun 14, 2010
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Then why the "kids being influenced" bit?

If I misinterpreted that, apologies. I just took it at face value.
The small percentage of bad parents that want their kid to be the new thing instead of the kid finding out for themselves in an open environment.

I really want to emphasize its a probably a very small percentage of parents.
Skepticism is healthy.

Making categorically "true/false" statements before doing the research isn't.

I default to false but with an open mind.
 

BonkTastic

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The small percentage of bad parents that want their kid to be the new thing instead of the kid finding out for themselves in an open environment.

I really want to emphasize its a probably a very small percentage of parents.

Ah, ok then, my apologies.


Though, slightly echoing what I said earlier: that is less a "trangender / gender identity" issue, and more of a "stupid idiot parent" issue. If it wasn't trangender identity, these parents would just be pushing something equally inappropriate on their kids.
 

Here I Pageau Again

Registered User
Jul 4, 2012
8,296
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I totally agree. In the above story, the teacher isn't allowed to call a student by pronouns and they regularly change their gender. That's not ok. Identify as whatever you please but don't impose restrictions on others. There's acceptance and then there's insanity.

This.

I'm happy to have people do as they please... but it gets to a point where our world is getting way too politically correct and people just expect everyone to do as they please.

My cousin is Transgender and I don't get it. But apparently there is some brain MRI images that shows that men who identify as being female have MRI that appear more "female" (as men and women have different brains on MRI).
 

Ice-Tray

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Jan 31, 2006
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I'm with Bonk on the IDGAF area of the response spectrum.

As with a lot of things, when people win new 'freedoms' they tend to want to openly express them, 'flaunt' them, share them, whatever, and given what tend to be long periods of shame, oppression, ignorance, etc... There tends to be a desire for open acceptance and acknowledgment by those around them.

Almost a sense that all 'normal' people were in some way complicit, and now the way to show that you are accepting involves going out of ones way to illustrate acceptance.

An oft overlooked consideration is that true acceptance often manifests itself with an IDGAF attitude, like "why am I supposed to care about this, just carry on and self-identify how you will". Like Bonkie says, if I address you the wrong way, just correct me in a way that understands that I meant no disrespect, I just had no idea you needed something different, and lets carry on...

Like a lot of social justice issues, the pendulum tends to swing back in the opposite direction before settling closer to the middle again. A certain flamboyance and in-your-face attitude seems necessary until things settle back into a more central area. Maybe that's how you make a culture accept things relatively quickly, having something in your face certainly makes one think and digest things rather than being able to out-of-sight-out-of-mind.

Interestingly enough the transgendered issue leads to bureaucratic and administrative changes as well since it deals with signage, bathroom availability, language, and gender. I mean, with racism and homosexuality, language, gender, bathrooms, etc... stayed relatively static. The biggest change was internal, people just had to learn (and still learn) to accept people for who they are. This new gender issue has added a whole laundry list of new changes, and there isn't an exact change even that needs making.

Then of course there is the issue of what make look like a boy in a what looks to be a girls bathroom... This is an area that leaks in to sex, sexuality, and the North American notions of sexual fear and protection of youths from 'it'. It is quite likely that an inherent fear of sex (sexual conservatives, religious notions, etc..) is at the root of these 'disruptions' of the 'safe' and 'normal'.

I know I'm not digging super deep into this, but it does raise so many questions, and as is often the case, the deeper you look into these types of issues, the more you find yourself actually looking deeply into yourself.
 

Ice-Tray

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Jan 31, 2006
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Haha apparently moissanite is a decent cheaper replacement... and looks decent.

Just get his initials tatooed on the inside of your ring finger. That's what we're doing. Neither of us want a ring and everything that comes along with it.

It's our little thing that only we know is there unless someone is really looking or we show it off.

Just our way of looking at things, all perspectives are good if they're good for those involved :)
 

Engineer

Rustled your jimmies
Dec 23, 2013
6,143
1,892
Forbes has updated Elizabeth Holmes personal value frm $4.5B to $0, lol.


She should be rotting in jail for decades.
 

Here I Pageau Again

Registered User
Jul 4, 2012
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Just get his initials tatooed on the inside of your ring finger. That's what we're doing. Neither of us want a ring and everything that comes along with it.

It's our little thing that only we know is there unless someone is really looking or we show it off.

Just our way of looking at things, all perspectives are good if they're good for those involved :)

I know a few ppl who have done that. And it's really cool. Both of us are not huge needle fans so tattoos doesn't seem "us"... but like you said do what works for you! My biggest thing is that rings are a lot of money... seemingly a waste to me.
 

Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,619
8,531
Victoria
I know a few ppl who have done that. And it's really cool. Both of us are not huge needle fans so tattoos doesn't seem "us"... but like you said do what works for you! My biggest thing is that rings are a lot of money... seemingly a waste to me.

Agreed, especially given the artificial diamond market...
 

saskriders

Can't Hold Leads
Sep 11, 2010
25,086
1,618
Calgary
Regarding the aforementioned common core maths; I think they should teach both it and regular. To me common core seems more intuitive, and I ended up "inventing" my own way to do arithmetic (which I later learned was basically common core) because the standard way just didn't click with me. I have always found in school that I can start out being one of the strongest in a new topic, but than fall behind as it gets more complex. I think the reason for this is that I need to completely understand why something works, yet others may be able to accept that "it just works that way". Common core maths seems to show why arithmetic works the way it does. Students should learn both the old and new methods.

edit: meant to post this video

 
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Knave

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Mar 6, 2007
21,825
2,439
Ottawa
Forbes has updated Elizabeth Holmes personal value frm $4.5B to $0, lol.


She should be rotting in jail for decades.

It's a pretty amazing story. The board of directors for that company was filled with powerful people.

As for common core - I don't really understand it. If it can help increase math scores - why not? The major downside is parents can't really help their kids since they didn't learn common core.
 
Jan 19, 2006
23,600
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Calgary
I just don't understand the cutoffs. They just seem arbitrary set.

Someone being male or female is generally accepted. Someone being trans is less accepted, but it generally accepted lingo. But then you get into genderqueer, non-gendered, genderbendered, agendered, genderless, non-binary, third-gendered, two-spirited, bi-gendered, genderfluid, otherkin etc. for which acceptance ranges from should be accepted as a real distinction, to this person/thing/weirdo has a mental illness that should be treated.
 
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