OT: Sens Lounge LXXV | Future Thread

[McManked]

Honestly, for a 14 year old boy that is obsessed with girls, I honestly think there's hardly a difference.

In 2014, I bet all those kids have cellphones that they watch porn or have naked pictures of.

In 2004, I bet those kids would read text sex stories on the internet.

In 1994, they were stealing older cousins porn vhs tapes.

In 1984, they were stealing older cousins magazines.

It's not like kids in 1984 were morally just and never thought about women that way, and only now are kids having "unpure" and "unholy" thoughts. It's just different methods that all achieve the same end result.

EDIT: I also think that showing spaghetti straps is a hell of a lot different than exposing the front of a bra. It's covering a shoulder for chrissakes.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

This Great Debate has been going on forever. Funny that this one girl put up such a stick as to make the news about it.

The women in the comments section saying "if you sexualize a 14 year old girl then you're the one with the problem!" annoy me. That's not the point. It's the 14 year old boys who can't concentrate worth a damn in class that I am concerned with

Anyway, the whole 'we should be able to express ourselves freely and creatively' take is silly. There should be a line drawn somewhere, and not being allowed to openly show underwear is a decent threshold. These kids should just be happy they don't have to wear uniforms. Then again, those same kids would then start battling the Board on how short their skirts can be.

This line of thinking is what's wrong with society, though. Theoretically, people shouldn't face limitations on what they wear because it could be distracting. Why are we placing the onus on girls to cover up, instead of on guys to control their impulses?

Don't take this the wrong way — I'm not some Tumblr-addicted social justice warrior telling everyone they should be offended — but there are legitimate reasons to have dress codes. The bolded line isn't one of them.

 

[Benjamin]

Tumblr/femanazis is/are always a good laugh. People lose perspective and become what they hate. Oh and the labeling of everything.

 

[DrakeAndJosh]

Girls should be able to dress however they want on their own time. At school they should be dressing presentably.

 

[PaGEEsBack]

This line of thinking is what's wrong with society, though. Theoretically, people shouldn't face limitations on what they wear because it could be distracting. Why are we placing the onus on girls to cover up, instead of on guys to control their impulses?

What's the limit on that line of thinking though - especially in a public school?

 

[Mr Invidious]

This movement reminds me of the whole "body art discrimination in the workplace" movement.

"They won't let me work for their professional business because I have 20 piercings on my face! Discrimination!"

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

What's the limit on that line of thinking though - especially in a public school?

It still stands in a public school, on the street, in a home, in a sporting arena, or in the middle of the Australian outback. There's no limit at all on that line of thinking.

The limit comes in play not because of how it makes others feel, but because of professionalism and venue appropriateness.

 

[Saabman0508]

I wasn't allowed to wear spaghetti straps or tube tops in high school. I don't see why they should be allowed to.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

This line of thinking is what's wrong with society, though. Theoretically, people shouldn't face limitations on what they wear because it could be distracting. Why are we placing the onus on girls to cover up, instead of on guys to control their impulses?

Don't take this the wrong way — I'm not some Tumblr-addicted social justice warrior telling everyone they should be offended — but there are legitimate reasons to have dress codes. The bolded line isn't one of them.

My point was in jest, but true enough. It's not like many of us complained about girls showing skin when we were in school, but in that same line of thinking, we don't have an epidemic of 14 year old ******* preying on girls at Ottawa schools. So I guess the bolded is sort of a moot point anyway. What I was really driving at was there should be a line drawn somewhere, and exposing underwear is a decent one.

 

[PaGEEsBack]

It still stands in a public school, on the street, in a home, in a sporting arena, or in the middle of the Australian outback. There's no limit at all on that line of thinking.

The limit comes in play not because of how it makes others feel, but because of professionalism and venue appropriateness.

Which are entirely based on feelings - so where does it end?

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Which are entirely based on feelings - so where does it end?

Simple. One is feeling that others should change what they do to make you feel comfortable, while the other is feeling that it's context-relevant. In the former case, people are saying "I don't want you to be comfortable because it makes me uncomfortable." The latter is saying "This isn't the right time or place for that" — not that there's NEVER a good time or place for it.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

What's easier

Putting a dress-code or group therapy for 14 year old boys on how their impulses are the source of the issue

I think the dress-code is easier to implement

But alas, in this day age people are absolutely obsessed with the concept of fairness: if something isn't fair it's automatically garbage and should be discarded

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

What's easier

Putting a dress-code or group therapy for 14 year old boys on how their impulses are the source of the issue

I think the dress-code is easier to implement

But alas, in this day age people are absolutely obsessed with the concept of fairness: if something isn't fair it's automatically garbage and should be discarded

There are two ways to do things: the easy way and the right way.

 

[PaGEEsBack]

Simple. One is feeling that others should change what they do to make you feel comfortable, while the other is feeling that it's context-relevant. In the former case, people are saying "I don't want you to be comfortable because it makes me uncomfortable." The latter is saying "This isn't the right time or place for that" — not that there's NEVER a good time or place for it.

But that'll be entirely based on someone elses idea of appropriateness. Telling me "This isn't the right time or place for that" hurts my feelings just as much as "that makes me uncomfortable." Where do you draw the line - can you draw the line?

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

But that'll be entirely based on someone elses idea of appropriateness. Telling me "This isn't the right time or place for that" hurts my feelings just as much as "that makes me uncomfortable." Where do you draw the line - can you draw the line?

That's a gray area. I'll give you that. It's tough, and near impossible, to settle somewhere that's acceptable to everyone.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

There are two ways to do things: the easy way and the right way.

And the right way isn't always the best way

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Agreed. Some girl wrote this on fb last night, as soon as I read it I decided I was done with the internet for the day.

What about that second quote is wrong? Whoever wrote it hit the nail on the head.

 

[Mr Invidious]

What about that second quote is wrong? Whoever wrote it hit the nail on the head.

Sexual assault is wrong. Duh. We get it.

But that entire schpeel is a cry for the damnation of all men. It ignores all realities and lumps men (which she quoted; kind of gives it away she's speaking in a derogatory manner) into one category of molesters and rapists.

It's typical feminist-extremist propaganda.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

This line of thinking is what's wrong with society, though. Theoretically, people shouldn't face limitations on what they wear because it could be distracting. Why are we placing the onus on girls to cover up, instead of on guys to control their impulses?

Don't take this the wrong way — I'm not some Tumblr-addicted social justice warrior telling everyone they should be offended — but there are legitimate reasons to have dress codes. The bolded line isn't one of them.

Agreed completely.

What l find truly scary are the people that believe the girl deserves some of the blame for 'distracting' boys by revealing clothing or whatever the case may be. How is it her fault? If a boy or a man can't control his impulses, and infringes on the rights of somebody else he is to blame entirely and should be punished. This line of thinking is dangerous, it diminishes the crime by shifting blame away from where it belongs, and indirectly enables that type of behaviour to continue.

I wonder if there was an epidemic of young straight boys being assaulted by older gay men because they dressed to sexy like, and the aggressors kept getting away with slaps on the wrists, if some people would still think part of the blame lies with the victim.

Excuse the hyperbole.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Sexual assault is wrong. Duh. We get it.

But that entire schpeel is a cry for the damnation of all men. It ignores all realities and lumps men (which she quoted; kind of gives it away she's speaking in a derogatory manner) into one category of molesters and rapists.

It's typical feminist-extremist propaganda.

I think you missed the point. It's not damning all men, it's damning a line of thinking that can be perfectly symbolized by this 'friendzone' ******** that's popping up in memes everywhere.

And you can't tell me that the courts aren't way too easy on rapists and other sexual aggressors. Or that generally speaking men have advantages in society. That's just the society we live in, and I don't blame women one bit for fighting to balance the playing field.

The method isn't always right, and there is a massive difference between a feminist and an extremist. But that doesn't mean the cause isn't just.

 

[PaGEEsBack]

And the funniest thing in all of this is school dress codes are written up and enforce by the people who need it most - the faculty. Jealous frumpy old women and aging horndogs. Male student's care about exposed bra straps as much as female students care about boxers hanging out from low hanging jeans - about 0.


It always seems to be the loud and in charge crowd who can't control themselves.

 

[PaGEEsBack]

What l find truly scary are the people that believe the girl deserves some of the blame for 'distracting' boys by revealing clothing or whatever the case may be. How is it her fault? If a boy or a man can't control his impulses, and infringes on the rights of somebody else he is to blame entirely and should be punished. This line of thinking is dangerous, it diminishes the crime by shifting blame away from where it belongs, and indirectly enables that type of behaviour to continue.

If all actions have consequences and you can only control your own actions - who's to blame when something bad happens?

 

[StefanW]

If all actions have consequences and you can only control your own actions - who's to blame when something bad happens?

Of course, victim blaming.

Or, maybe we can entertain the option that other people have agency as well, and hold those individuals responsible for their actions. Not a tough leap.

 

[StefanW]

Sexual assault is wrong. Duh. We get it.

But that entire schpeel is a cry for the damnation of all men. It ignores all realities and lumps men (which she quoted; kind of gives it away she's speaking in a derogatory manner) into one category of molesters and rapists.

It's typical feminist-extremist propaganda.

I get the impression from your comments that you actually have no understanding of feminism at all. Also, you appear to insist on repeating stereotypes about it which are often not true. I'd suggest taking a course in Intro Sociology, where there will be a short unit on feminist social theory. That is a much lighter way into the topic that going all out into Women's Studies courses. Take it in, and form an opinion that is based on facts. Expect your mind to change over time, because everyone's does.

 

[Mr Invidious]

I get the impression from your comments that you actually have no understanding of feminism at all. Also, you appear to insist on repeating stereotypes about it which are often not true. I'd suggest taking a course in Intro Sociology, where there will be a short unit on feminist social theory. That is a much lighter way into the topic that going all out into Women's Studies courses. Take it in, and form an opinion that is based on facts. Expect your mind to change over time, because everyone's does.

You can try and be condescending all you'd like, I know what I'm talking about.

I made it perfectly clear that I'm talking about extremism. Feminist extremists that pretty much deem their gender superior. I don't believe in feminism. I believe in equality. While the majority of the feminist movement does mean well and fight for equality, there are many outliers just like any other movement that takes things too far.

I have a problem with the tripe that Smeddy posted earlier. That was bordering on extremism.