Pre-Game Talk: SENS in St.Louis tonight 8:00pm on TSN

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Certain kind of players you want on a hockey team. Bobby Ryan is one of them, Mike Hoffman is not.

And it was quite evident last night.

 

[jbeck5]

What an awful post. Hoffman is the better player and makes this team better. Period.

I'm not saying Hoffman isn't good or we should trade him...but the post you quoted is exactly why people have a hard time liking Hoffman. Hes either very disinterested in the play or very bad at making decisions. He doesn't support his teammates offensively. Instead of getting open for an easy support pass he likes to hide at the other end of the ice making it hard to use him in a play other than a hail Mary pass. This isn't bantam.

 

[jbeck5]

Certain kind of players you want on a hockey team. Bobby Ryan is one of them, Mike Hoffman is not.

What? They both aren't nearly as good as they could be either due to lazyness or stupidity.

If they both had a motor on them like MacArthur they'd be 70 point players...but they both don't keep their feet moving. They both don't spend hour after hour working on their explosiveness and endurance in the gym. They both need a dash of hossa/Chara work ethic. Those 2 were known to wanna improve their game every summer and did.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Fisher and Neil worked their asses off. Every shift. Does Ryan do that? I don’t think he does. There are times I hardly notice him. If he had a consistent work effort every game, I’d agree with you. I don’t see that though.

You obviously did not watch last night's game.

Ryan was probably the most noticeable Ottawa forward on the ice. He was fore checking, back checking and was hitting more than every other Senator, except Boro.

He was probably the fastest skating Senator forward out there last night, in the second game of a back to back games on the road.

 

[jbeck5]

"I agree that he scores goals but he doesn't do things that make this team win games"

The **** am I reading.

What a simplistic way of looking at things. There's more to hockey than goals.

For example, karlsson has never led our team in goals yet is seen as much more valuable then Hoffman because of all the other stuff. Puck possession, play making, shot blocking, hits, etc.

Hoffman is lazy and often hurts the team with his play...but then will score a goal here and there.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Yep. Even if he's still owner in Lebreton, he'll do the same thing there as in Kanata...take the profits and put them into his own pocket while running a shoestring budget and crying poor.

Source?

 

[jbeck5]

He definitely shys away from contact in season games. But who cares ? He’s a super slight guy. It’s not his strength. People help in their own ways. His is producing.

Then he should help by moving his feet, creating offense, and supporting his teammates. He doesn't do that. Instead of supporting his teammates he stays far side behind 3 opponents. Instead of moving his feet he glides most of the time. Instead of creating offense he's invisible other than a goal here or there.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Only in this place would they make such an asinine argument as Ryan is better for the team than Hoffman. God wow I am at loss for words.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Source?

...you realize the Sens have been on the good side of the ledger for the last several years, right? Yet we still have the smallest, most bare-bones operation (Melynk even confirmed this) in the league, and a self-imposed team budget of 68 mil for player salaries. You think all that money simply evaporated in a snowdrift?

 

[Suiteness]

At this point that might actually be a plausible argument...

Considering the stupidity of our management, I can actually picture them making plans hinging on winning a farking lottery.

 

[jbeck5]

I don't think it is a fallacy. It is hard to score but I think if you have the right players and it becomes a lot easier. Jut look at William Karlsson and Erik Haula two guys thought as expendable depth players who are having terrific seasons playing a more prominent role. I big part of the reason I like Ryan is because I see him doing things that make it easier for his teammates, but I watch Hoffman and most nights its the complete opposite.



Trust me I've always had my issues with Hoffman, the frustration though has recached a new high. He is supposed to be one of the players who can get you out of slumps like these, instead he has tucked his tail between his legs and ran the other way.

You are seriously asking why they have tried something new on the PP. They feed Hoffman from that spot for months, it stopped working well before they gave up on it.



When was the last time Bobby Ryan's shape was questioned and I'm not talking about someone speculating he is out shape, around here or on TSN 1200. When was his conditioning legitimately questioned. Bobby Ryan definitely isn't the fleetest of foot and I can see how some may his question his effort as a result of it but he's a guy who's always gonna battle. He's going to fight through checks, he's going to dig the puck out in a battle, he's going to come across the ice and support his teammates. Against teams that are quicker he may not always be effective but you don't have to worry about his effort.

On top of that he's still very skilled and I'm not just talking about shooting and passing. You won't find a player on this team who is better at taking the puck off the boards and putting it on a teammates stick. His hand injuries are really unfortunate because he is a great player when he is able to be.

Ryan's work ethic was in question all last year until the playoffs when he actually continuously moved his feet. Then when the season started people asked "are we getting lazy Ryan or hardworking Ryan this year?" Then people said "looks like back to lazy Ryan" so I dunno what you're talking about.

There's so many times he could have moved his feet and been first on the puck but instead went at 75% and got there second and swung his stick and put in a body check. That's not what he did in the playoffs when he wasnt being lazy.

There was a play a few weeks ago that I kept rewinding and laughing at. Ryan just hopped over the boards to start his shift and we had just dumped the puck in around the boards to the far side. Ryan is forechecking soooo slowly and looks sooo gassed. He litterally just started his shift. He was in position to be first on the puck but looked like someone who had just been bag skated where the coach is yelling one more round and you exaggerate every limb pump to make it look like you're trying but you're clearly exhausted and can't push. You guys know what I'm talking about. Question is, why the heck is Ryan so gassed like he just did a bag skate and has nothing left to give WHEN HE JUST STARTED HIS SHIFT. He's so out of shape..

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

...you realize the Sens have been on the good side of the ledger for the last several years, right? Yet we still have the smallest, most bare-bones operation (Melynk even confirmed this) in the league, and a self-imposed team budget of 68 mil for player salaries. You think all that money simply evaporated in a snowdrift?

Again, source?




http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports...Senators+have+lost+million/8799118/story.html

Down Goes Brown: Why are the Ottawa Senators losing money?

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

Hoffman isn't the best guy in the work zone. He's a gifted offensive player with defensive issues. This would be fine if everyone were performing at normal levels, but it's unacceptable when the team has regressed and we need him to elevate.

 

[Engineer]

Again, source?




Under Eugene Melnyk, Senators have lost $94 million

Down Goes Brown: Why are the Ottawa Senators losing money?

A 2010 and a 2013 article, lol, not dated whatsoever.

Ottawa Senators on the Forbes The Business of Hockey List

Forbes estimates they have been profitable since 2010.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

A 2010 and a 2013 article, lol, not dated whatsoever.

Ottawa Senators on the Forbes The Business of Hockey List

Forbes estimates they have been profitable since 2010.

The Forbes article lumps the Senators and the CTC in together to calculate their combined value.

The team is operated separately from the CTC, and "the Team" is operated under an internal budget, and the Owner has stated many times that the Team needs to make the playoffs to turn a profit.

Don't forget that the Team generates revenues in CDN dollars, but the vast majority of their costs are in US dollars, so the profitability of the Team is certainly affected by the fluctuation of the exchange rate.

So I still very much doubt that your assertion that the Team has been profitable, every year, for the past decade. If this were true, then why is the Owner perusing a move to Lebreton Flats, that will cost him a lot more money than just staying put in Kanata IF, as you suggest, he's making money every year?

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Then he should help by moving his feet, creating offense, and supporting his teammates. He doesn't do that. Instead of supporting his teammates he stays far side behind 3 opponents. Instead of moving his feet he glides most of the time. Instead of creating offense he's invisible other than a goal here or there.

Except he does more than that. There’s not many TRULY lazy players in the league. Hoffman isn’t one.

 

[Engineer]

The Forbes article lumps the Senators and the CTC in together to calculate their combined value.

The team is operated separately from the CTC, and "the Team" is operated under an internal budget, and the Owner has stated many times that the Team needs to make the playoffs to turn a profit.

They lump those two companies in together because that is what any sane financial analyst would do.
Just because the owner has them separated on paper, doesn't mean they shouldn't be analyzed as a joint venture.
How about you use some logic in your analysis here.

So I still very much doubt that your assertion that the Team has been profitable, every year, for the past decade. If this were true, then why is the Owner perusing a move to Lebreton Flats, that will cost him a lot more money than just staying put in Kanata IF, as you suggest, he's making money every year?

the definition of investment

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Only in this place would they make such an asinine argument as Ryan is better for the team than Hoffman. God wow I am at loss for words.

The thing is they both have their strengths. And both mos def have their weaknesses. A strength of Hoffman’s is he’s in a nice deal. Ryan is on one of the west deals in the entire league. Right there he takes a hit on his “this is how I help the team” resume.

 

[God Says No]

I don't think it is a fallacy. It is hard to score but I think if you have the right players and it becomes a lot easier. Jut look at William Karlsson and Erik Haula two guys thought as expendable depth players who are having terrific seasons playing a more prominent role. I big part of the reason I like Ryan is because I see him doing things that make it easier for his teammates, but I watch Hoffman and most nights its the complete opposite.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Let's see if Karlsson/Haula first can score more than 27 goals this year, and next whether they can do it consistently for the next 3 years.

 

[Alex1234]

Ryan was really good last night but its not always like that far from it
I like his style and his dekeing at one on one his top 30 in the league Imo but...
How many times in the past year did we witness a nonchalant player who don't skate hard, falls a number of times, miss the net or doesn't go to the net charging
We count on him for scoring goals he has 6
Yeah he was hurt but his S% is still 263rd in the league
Not enough for a goal scorer

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I'm surprised there isn't more emphasis on how bad our goalies have been this year. It's been the driving factor that led to this meltdown and killed the team early on. Anderson had another terrible goal last night and it seems that neither him or Condon can ever follow up a quality game with another. 7 million for two guys that can't stop a beach ball this year.

 

[Jorge Garcia]

Wouldn't their record indicate that that's exactly what they are?

Only if you believe that last year they were a solid contender. They were a crappy fluke goal away from the Cup final.

 

[Swisssen]

I regret for paying NHL-TV for the whole Season.
I just don`t give a shit anymore. didn`t know they played the blues yesterday. I loled when I saw the score in the morning. When I actually watch a game, I skip a lot of it und don`t pay much attention, usually it`s so boring. Time to ged rid of Bocher. With our GM, I`m really concenrned about the trade deadline.

 

[TeamRenzo]

Feels like the choke is sunk in and theres 2 hooks in too

Just waiting to fall asleep

I love the BJJ reference!

 

[Langdon Alger]

You obviously did not watch last night's game.

Ryan was probably the most noticeable Ottawa forward on the ice. He was fore checking, back checking and was hitting more than every other Senator, except Boro.

He was probably the fastest skating Senator forward out there last night, in the second game of a back to back games on the road.

I watched some of the game, but not all of it. Pretty boring stuff. Ryan needs to play that way more often then. One game isn’t good enough.