GDT: Senators @ Devils - 1:00 P.M. - MSGSN, NHLN

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I don't think Fitzgerald is huge on deadline acquisitions in general. Not sure the right player is out there. I always think back to 2012 Alexei Ponikarovsky, just the perfect addition. I used to think the Devils needed an LW to push Cotter down, but now I'm beginning to think the answer is on the right wing to play a guy who can help out Cotter. Don't know what that means for Mercer, who has to find his game. I guess Cotter and Haula don't mix so it still just has to be an LW and Cotter has to move to the 4th line.

Tatar-Lazar-Bastian may not be able to score enough but they're basically even in xG and they've mostly played over this lousy stretch from the team. Cotter-Lazar-Bastian has less time but similar xG results.

Yeah, as much as I shit on post salary cap Lou, that was a tremendous work in GMing. He also flipped Kurtis Foster who he acquired earlier in the year for Zidlicky, who was a big piece in our cup run.. The move is probably to throw the 2026 1st on the block and see if you can entice a team to give a guy up with term but again, that's just to test the market imo.

I don't hate the bottom 6 as much as I complain about it, they should be a net neutral which I think they have been (?) but the moves to get bigger/stronger is what scare me and they further move down that needle as opposed to what made them a juggernaut in 22/23 which was skating teams into the ground.

 

[guitarguyvic]

well excuse me, I didnt not run the calc after today's game! I apologize!

97 points has never been a bubble team lmao I dont think a team with that many points has ever missed the playoffs.

Since 2021-2022, 58% of the WC teams had 97 points or more. If you make the cutoff 95, it's 75%.

97 points is closer to WC than division winner, that is for sure.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

But we were at 100 pt pace yesterday, and 108 not too long ago, and probably higher before that.

Point being is unless we start playing better that pace will continue to go lower.

No one is disagreeing that they need to be better. They do. Hopefully this week where they only have 1 game in 5 days helps.

My entire point is the doom and gloom "No true contending team ever has streaks like this!" stuff. It just isn't true.

 

[devilsblood]

No one is disagreeing that they need to be better. They do. Hopefully this week where they only have 1 game in 5 days helps.

My entire point is the doom and gloom "No true contending team ever has streaks like this!" stuff. It just isn't true.

Im no doom and gloomer, but it is true that this team still needs to prove it is good. The early season success was merely a good start.

 

[guitarguyvic]

You've stepped in it now because the '2022 bad stretch' doesn't coincide with the stretch I am talking about at all. That's the whole point - teams play good and bad and they win and lose and while playing well has a correlation with winning, it doesn't always and especially not over 10 game stretches.



I don't care about 'so far'. Do not care at all. You've been consistently wrong about this core and will continue to be up until the point that they win a Stanley Cup. You've just goalpost shifted about them and will continue to do so until then. And maybe they won't win that Cup. But the goalpost shifts are already there.

LOL I've stepped in what? I literally said it's not so much about the end result as it is how they are playing. This is just nonsense.

First you don't even know what I'm arguing, now I'm shifting goalposts. What have I been wrong about? What goalposts have I shifted?

 

[Better Call Sal]

People trying to pinpoint the blame are just looking for their pound of flesh. I get the team has not had their success over the past 12 years, but the complaints that come on here do come across incredibly babyish. If that is your prerogative, be my guest. I don’t want to tell someone how to feel. But I find that a very grating way to be a fan.

There were stretches in this skid where if our top 6 didn’t produce, we weren’t going to win. Now we’re in a stretch where they’re actually getting a goal squeezed out of the 4th line two games in a row but the top 9 is nowhere to be seen. Outside of goaltending, which has plagued us in years past, you can pinpoint every thing imaginable that could go against us in this stretch and it has.

Do you truly believe this is the team? Do you truly believe they’ll shoot 7% the rest of the way with the group they have? Do you really believe they will win two of 11 the rest of the way? Do you believe this team that had a dominant stretch of play as games wore on in the 2nd and 3rd have suddenly forgot how to play late?

Perspective is often lost on here. I think it would benefit some to not leap off in January. Lengthy skid of poor play notwithstanding.

 

[Triumph]

LOL I've stepped in what? I literally said it's not so much about the end result as it is how they are playing. This is just nonsense.

They weren't playing well but they were getting good results during a stretch in 2022-23. Because that is how an NHL season usually goes.

First you don't even know what I'm arguing, now I'm shifting goalposts. What have I been wrong about? What goalposts have I shifted?

You have shifted goalposts about this core from the beginning. You and Jim were the last people to see Jack Hughes as a superstar player - even in 2021 when it was obvious that Jack Hughes was already a star, you were out here comparing him to Mathew Barzal. I'm sure I can go dig up stuff you've said about Nico which will look ludicrous now, which you will claim 'well that was just what I was saying at the time based on what I was seeing'. You just won't let yourself acknowledge something good might happen in the future until it's staring you in the face and it has to be recognized.

 

[guitarguyvic]

No one is disagreeing that they need to be better. They do. Hopefully this week where they only have 1 game in 5 days helps.

My entire point is the doom and gloom "No true contending team ever has streaks like this!" stuff. It just isn't true.

Unsurprisingly, this is a gross over-simplification of what posters are venting about. Relative to expectations, the team at its best has looked "pretty good" for a few weeks and and at it's worst looks like a f***ing lottery team for a few weeks. That's a wild swing across pretty large time periods, and dismissing it under the notion that it happens to every team is baloney.

 

[Dylan9z9]

Do something with this team. Jesus Christ

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Unsurprisingly, this is a gross over-simplification of what posters are venting about. Relative to expectations, the team at its best has looked "pretty good" for a few weeks and and at it's worst looks like a f***ing lottery team for a few weeks. That's a wild swing across pretty large time periods, and dismissing it under the notion that it happens to every team is baloney.

THIS DOES HAPPEN TO EVERY TEAM lol

jesus christ man. Watch some other teams! It CONSTANTLY Happens to other teams.


2023-24 Florida Panthers. Had a 5-10 streak in late March, early April. Won the Cup.
2023-24 Edmonton Oilers. Had a 5-13 streak early in the year. Made the Finals.
2022-23 Vegas Golden Knights. Had a 2-8 stretch in January. Won the Cup.
2022-23 Florida Panthers. Stunk the literal entire first half of the season. Had a 1-6 stretch and another 4 game losing streak. Made the Finals.
2021-22 Colorado Avalanche. Ended the season (literally the last 7 games) on a 1-6 stretch. Had another 1-5 stretch earlier in the year. Won the Cup.
2021-22 Tampa Bay Lightning. Had a 1-6 stretch and 2 other separate 3 game losing streaks. Made the Finals

etc. etc.

 

[guitarguyvic]

They weren't playing well but they were getting good results during a stretch in 2022-23. Because that is how an NHL season usually goes.

Yeah ok and? What do you think you're arguing here that's relevant to what I'm saying? Regardless of record or insufficient xG metrics, I think it's absolutely off the mark to suggest that the 2022-23 team's worst stretch of hockey was anything remotely as bad as what we are seeing right now.

You have shifted goalposts about this core from the beginning. You and Jim were the last people to see Jack Hughes as a superstar player - even in 2021 when it was obvious that Jack Hughes was already a star, you were out here comparing him to Mathew Barzal. I'm sure I can go dig up stuff you've said about Nico which will look ludicrous now, which you will claim 'well that was just what I was saying at the time based on what I was seeing'. You just won't let yourself acknowledge something good might happen in the future until it's staring you in the face and it has to be recognized.

This is stupid because the argument was never that he would not become a superstar, it was about anointing a player that status before he's proven it. And yeah it's really no different than the argument about the core now. They haven't lived up to expectations as far as I'm concerned. You're saying they have - that's not an argument about the future.

There are things I have wanted to see from this core for several years now. We got a taste of it during the regular season 2022-23, but not in the playoffs, and not really in other regular season before or since then. If you are inclined to agree with this viewpoint, it doesn't seem particularly controversial to say that the more it goes on, the less confidence one would have that it will materialize.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

People trying to pinpoint the blame are just looking for their pound of flesh. I get the team has not had their success over the past 12 years, but the complaints that come on here do come across incredibly babyish. If that is your prerogative, be my guest. I don’t want to tell someone how to feel. But I find that a very grating way to be a fan.

There were stretches in this skid where if our top 6 didn’t produce, we weren’t going to win. Now we’re in a stretch where they’re actually getting a goal squeezed out of the 4th line two games in a row but the top 9 is nowhere to be seen. Outside of goaltending, which has plagued us in years past, you can pinpoint every thing imaginable that could go against us in this stretch and it has.

Do you truly believe this is the team? Do you truly believe they’ll shoot 7% the rest of the way with the group they have? Do you really believe they will win two of 11 the rest of the way? Do you believe this team that had a dominant stretch of play as games wore on in the 2nd and 3rd have suddenly forgot how to play late?

Perspective is often lost on here. I think it would benefit some to not leap off in January. Lengthy skid of poor play notwithstanding.

I think the anger comes from this team never getting a full 60 from everyone at once. Even we were winning before Christmas, there was a worry that Markstrom would f*** it up by letting in a softy. Now Markstrom has played out of his mind, we can't score and it feels like the Cory days again. When the top 6 + Markstrom look decent, the bottom 6 or defense is getting caved. They're somewhere in the middle between that pre Christmas stretch and what we're seeing now.

 

[guitarguyvic]

THIS DOES HAPPEN TO EVERY TEAM lol

jesus christ man. Watch some other teams! It CONSTANTLY Happens to other teams.


2023-24 Florida Panthers. Had a 5-10 streak in late March, early April. Won the Cup.
2023-24 Edmonton Oilers. Had a 5-13 streak early in the year. Made the Finals.
2022-23 Vegas Golden Knights. Had a 2-8 stretch in January. Won the Cup.
2022-23 Florida Panthers. Stunk the literal entire first half of the season. Had a 1-6 stretch and another 4 game losing streak. Made the Finals.
2021-22 Colorado Avalanche. Ended the season (literally the last 7 games) on a 1-6 stretch. Had another 1-5 stretch earlier in the year. Won the Cup.
2021-22 Tampa Bay Lightning. Had a 1-6 stretch and 2 other separate 3 game losing streaks. Made the Finals

etc. etc.

Again, over-simplification because it's about more than just the record. Unless you were dutifully watching those teams during those games, you have absolutely no idea what they looked like relative to what this team looks like right now.

 

[devilsblood]

Unsurprisingly, this is a gross over-simplification of what posters are venting about. Relative to expectations, the team at its best has looked "pretty good" for a few weeks and and at it's worst looks like a f***ing lottery team for a few weeks. That's a wild swing across pretty large time periods, and dismissing it under the notion that it happens to every team is baloney.

When this team was holding teams to under 20 shots for however many games I thought they looked great, very much the type of hockey that can succeed in the playoffs.

I also don't think they've looked like a lottery team of late. Lacking in offense, which is an oddity given the talent, but not terrible play.

 

[guitarguyvic]

I mean, people are asking me what I'm arguing. What exactly are you guys arguing? It doesn't seem like you all really believe this team as currently constructed is as good as anticipated being that we are all pretty much in agreement that we need 1-2 forwards inserted into the lineup by trade deadline.

The issue there is that we are acting like it's an inevitability that Fitz will be able to improve the roster. Trade deadline acquisitions are notoriously hit or miss, and we don't exactly have assets up the yin yang to swing, there's a 50/50 chance we don't wind up with the upgrades we expected.

 

[Triumph]

Yeah ok and? What do you think you're arguing here that's relevant to what I'm saying? Regardless of record or insufficient xG metrics, I think it's absolutely off the mark to suggest that the 2022-23 team's worst stretch of hockey was anything remotely as bad as what we are seeing right now.

Past was always better, future is always worse. xG metrics don't count, it's just vibes. You don't remember bad vibes, so they couldn't've been there.

This is stupid because the argument was never that he would not become a superstar, it was about anointing a player that status before he's proven it. And yeah it's really no different than the argument about the core now. They haven't lived up to expectations as far as I'm concerned. You're saying they have - that's not an argument about the future.

lol good memory. This is so incorrect about the argument from the past.

There are things I have wanted to see from this core for several years now. We got a taste of it during the regular season 2022-23, but not in the playoffs, and not really in other regular season before or since then. If you are inclined to agree with this viewpoint, it doesn't seem particularly controversial to say that the more it goes on, the less confidence one would have that it will materialize.

Yawn. I am not really inclined to agree with this viewpoint. Most of what has gone wrong with the team over the last 3 years has been inexperience, injuries, or things other than the core. The fact that you listed Jesper Bratt as a player you 'hate' or 'dislike' or whatever the hell you said today better just be one of your feelings that don't need to be validated. Jesper Bratt is an absolute joy to watch play hockey and is one of the most consistent players on the team, in my view. If you don't like Jesper Bratt, you will never like this team until they win you a Cup. And that's just depressing to think about.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I mean, people are asking me what I'm arguing. What exactly are you guys arguing? It doesn't seem like you all really believe this team as currently constructed is as good as anticipated being that we are all pretty much in agreement that we need 1-2 forwards inserted into the lineup by trade deadline.

The issue there is that we are acting like it's an inevitability that Fitz will be able to improve the roster. Trade deadline acquisitions are notoriously hit or miss, there's a 50/50 chance we don't wind up with the upgrades we expected.

and IF that happens, I'll be right here with you complaining. They absolutely need reinforcements. If they don't come, its a failure.

Until then? Maybe lets just see what happens.

 

[Triumph]

I mean, people are asking me what I'm arguing. What exactly are you guys arguing? It doesn't seem like you all really believe this team as currently constructed is as good as anticipated being that we are all pretty much in agreement that we need 1-2 forwards inserted into the lineup by trade deadline.

The issue there is that we are acting like it's an inevitability that Fitz will be able to improve the roster. Trade deadline acquisitions are notoriously hit or miss, and we don't exactly have assets up the yin yang to swing, there's a 50/50 chance we don't wind up with the upgrades we expected.

I think the team can still win it all as constituted, but they would have to get quite lucky. Everyone will feel better with a 3rd line forward acquisition, but truth is that stuff really doesn't matter a ton - the luck would have to be injury luck as well as everything else. Even if you're the best team going into the playoffs, it doesn't matter a whole lot. They have shown the level of a Cup contender this season.

 

[devilsblood]

We may have been a victim of our own defensive success, and because of putting such a focus on defense we have now lost our offensive focus.

Too many guys in this stretch with miniscule shot rates.

Over the last 10 games no player is in double digts/60 at 5v5. Over the last 10 only Jack is and everyone else is below 8. Over the last 20 Bratt is below 5.

The PP, which was a huge part of our early success, has lost it's way as well.

I think Keefe may need to open things up to get their confidence going again.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Past was always better, future is always worse. xG metrics don't count, it's just vibes. You don't remember bad vibes, so they couldn't've been there.



lol good memory. This is so incorrect about the argument from the past.

You seem quite well-versed with my past posts, so I'd think you'd include an actual quote or more cogent summary of what I've supposedly argued in the past. If you don't have that, then please don't bother with this nonsense. If you want to try, I can help clarify for you. You can look through my posts in 2022-23 and easily find that I defended that team vigorously after they tore things up in the first couple of months, including during the dog days when other posters were worried they weren't as good as they thought. So it's not something I'm just imagining because the "past was always better". This is just you being your usual condescending self where you don't think it's possible for someone to objectively recall anything, particularly if they don't agree with your viewpoint.

Yawn. I am not really inclined to agree with this viewpoint. Most of what has gone wrong with the team over the last 3 years has been inexperience, injuries, or things other than the core. The fact that you listed Jesper Bratt as a player you 'hate' or 'dislike' or whatever the hell you said today better just be one of your feelings that don't need to be validated. Jesper Bratt is an absolute joy to watch play hockey and is one of the most consistent players on the team, in my view. If you don't like Jesper Bratt, you will never like this team until they win you a Cup. And that's just depressing to think about.

I don't hate any player, it's just a sport. Perhaps the better descriptor would be that I'm disappointed - it's not about the individual skill level or point totals. It's the situational performance and team success. But I really don't have the motivation to get into this, I think I've had enough for this evening.

 

[devilsblood]

I mean, people are asking me what I'm arguing. What exactly are you guys arguing? It doesn't seem like you all really believe this team as currently constructed is as good as anticipated being that we are all pretty much in agreement that we need 1-2 forwards inserted into the lineup by trade deadline.

The issue there is that we are acting like it's an inevitability that Fitz will be able to improve the roster. Trade deadline acquisitions are notoriously hit or miss, and we don't exactly have assets up the yin yang to swing, there's a 50/50 chance we don't wind up with the upgrades we expected.

Good teams always add at the deadline though. Or at least look to.

I'm also not sure we need to add a fwd. I think Haula returning healthy could be a big positive. Otherwise it's about guys finding their games. And that goes for our top guys as well as the the bottom sixers.

 

[Hisch13r]

So Keefe confirmed the illness isn’t an excuse or widespread. Where are we moving goalposts to next?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

So Keefe confirmed the illness isn’t an excuse or widespread. Where are we moving goalposts to next?

I mean lol of course he is gonna say that

did you really think he'd say "yeah theyre sucking but they're sick so its okay"

 

[Better Call Sal]

I think the anger comes from this team never getting a full 60 from everyone at once. Even we were winning before Christmas, there was a worry that Markstrom would f*** it up by letting in a softy. Now Markstrom has played out of his mind, we can't score and it feels like the Cory days again. When the top 6 + Markstrom look decent, the bottom 6 or defense is getting caved. They're somewhere in the middle between that pre Christmas stretch and what we're seeing now.

Maybe it’s just me, but that is something that I expect over an 82 game season. There’s always peaks and valleys. We’ve been conditioned for so long that the valleys truly speak to the team. I feel like that’s the way the board operates. And maybe I’m often just too optimistic for the general lot.

 

[Mgd31]

People trying to pinpoint the blame are just looking for their pound of flesh. I get the team has not had their success over the past 12 years, but the complaints that come on here do come across incredibly babyish. If that is your prerogative, be my guest. I don’t want to tell someone how to feel. But I find that a very grating way to be a fan.

There were stretches in this skid where if our top 6 didn’t produce, we weren’t going to win. Now we’re in a stretch where they’re actually getting a goal squeezed out of the 4th line two games in a row but the top 9 is nowhere to be seen. Outside of goaltending, which has plagued us in years past, you can pinpoint every thing imaginable that could go against us in this stretch and it has.

Do you truly believe this is the team? Do you truly believe they’ll shoot 7% the rest of the way with the group they have? Do you really believe they will win two of 11 the rest of the way? Do you believe this team that had a dominant stretch of play as games wore on in the 2nd and 3rd have suddenly forgot how to play late?

Perspective is often lost on here. I think it would benefit some to not leap off in January. Lengthy skid of poor play notwithstanding.

I like this post. I can understand why people are pissed and others less so.

They haven’t been playing great these past 11 games but despite that they have been in pretty much every one score wise. 9 of them have been one goal games and the other two, the Kings and Hurricanes could have been as well if not for some questionable reffing. The Kings game could have been 1-1 at the start of the 3rd and the Canes one was 2-2 before the questionable major.

The fact that they only won 2 of these games is kind of cruel.