GDT: Senators at Oilers - 10PM - CBC/TVA - 97 and 7 - Two Big C's and Little Ceci

[Big Muddy]

I think the bigger concern is our top 6 forwards. Our best forwards have to play the best. We are only scoring one goal lately and its players like Kelly that are scoring.

 

[HSF]

He's an absolute force when he decides to play physically, it just doesn't happen often enough. Very frustrating .

it rarely happens its just not part of his game

 

[h2]

I think the bigger concern is our top 6 forwards. Our best forwards have to play the best. We are only scoring one goal lately and its players like Kelly that are scoring.

Our top 6 forwards lack two-way ability and don't play with tenacity, our bottom six lacks skill, our defense is the softest in the league, and our goaltenders are shaky on top of it all.

Fun times for a Sens fan.

 

[DylanSensFan]

He's an absolute force when he decides to play physically, it just doesn't happen often enough. Very frustrating .

He may be injured. Also, coming off a sprain will f*** anyone up.

 

[The Waffler]

What a disappointment Kastelic has become.

It’s wild how the biggest guy on the ice that wins all the fitness competitions and fastest skater can be so lacklustre in games.

 

[h2]

He may be injured. Also, coming off a sprain will f*** anyone up.

That's true, and also came back relatively early from that injury.

 

[HSF]

cant believe im saying it but Henrique is probably a good option

 

[Cosmix]

Interesting history of Ukrainians settling in Canada. I grew up in the north end of Winnipeg which was a melting pot of cultures including English, Scot, Ukrainian, Jewish, Polish, Metis.

That’s one of my criticisms with Chabot. His decision making is very slow.

So is his reaction time!

 

[Cosmix]

I think Chabot could be an excellent player IF he had a coach who would engage him in a discussion of his strengths and weaknesses, and work with him to improve his playmaking.

 

[Big Muddy]

Our top 6 forwards lack two-way ability and don't play with tenacity, our bottom six lacks skill, our defense is the softest in the league, and our goaltenders are shaky on top of it all.

Fun times for a Sens fan.

Our top forwards aren't scoring lately. We had a double minor, and didn't score. We only scored one goal again last night.

Only three of them have more than 10 goals: Tkachuk (16), Batherson (14) and Norris (12). Giroux has 10. Stutzle is 193rd in the goal category (lots of players tied with the same amount of goals of course).

Martin has them focused on playing better defensively, but we still need to score as well as play a sound team D game. We aren't going to win many games scoring just one goal.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Our top forwards aren't scoring lately. We had a double minor, and didn't score. We only scored one goal again last night.

Only three of them have more than 10 goals: Tkachuk (16), Batherson (14) and Norris (12). Giroux has 10. Stutzle is 193rd in the goal category (lots of players tied with the same amount of goals of course).

Martin has them focused on playing better defensively, but we still need to score as well as play a sound team D game. We aren't going to win many games scoring just one goal.

Top 6 group (Tkachuk, Stutzle, Batherson, Giroux, Tarasenko, Norris) has 14 goals total in the last 10 games; 3 PP goals (all from Norris)
'
They all have to be better . Most can bring their effort level up a notch or two.

 

[JD1]

Sigh. The guys that were named are simply some of the guys ranked above Chabot in D-men PPG since his 21 y/o season but surely it was really hard to understand, eh? That you believe he doesn't belong or not, this is still a FACT regarding D-men PPG since 2018-19. All it means is that the production has been there, it doesn't mean that I think he is as impactful as a guy like Hedman, for example.

I also never said Sens were a good team, au contraire. Again is it just an inability to read or intellectual dishonesty? I will ask you to pay more attention before quoting me, if not you're just wasting bandwidth and my time.

I have repeatedly said that as a team we are much much less than the sum of its parts and now I can even say that we are by far the worst team in the NHL in relation to the overall talent. It is a TEAM game and not just a collection of individuals together. I said multiple other things before the season that got the usual "resistance", like that the Habs rebuild was going much much better than ours, for example. Anyone who has paid any attention knows that I have heavily criticized this rebuild, management and coaching since 2020-21 and even said we wouldn't reach our potential with the people in place and unfortunately, I was right.

Chabot is more of an offensive D? We agree on that?

Since the 21-22 season, there are 123 guys with 2500 5 on 5 minutes.

Chabot is

66th in p/60.
13th in giveaways/60.
82nd in takeaways/60.
76th in hits/60
82nd in hits taken/60
36th in shots blocked/60.

Summarizing, he's not a big point producer at even strength, he gives the puck away a lot, he is kinda average in takeaways, in hitting guys, in getting hit. The only area where he's clearly above average is blocking shots.

Looking at shot data, it's all pretty middle of the pack. Nothing stands out.

He is first in 5 on 5 toi/game at 5 on 5 over that span, but he also doesn't have near the mileage that other guys do because he rarely PKs. There's 140 guys with 200 minutes of pk time, Chabot is not one of them. PK ice is much more tiring.

If you look at total ice time, he's 83rd in total ice time during that span. Why? Cause he's hurt a lot. He's also not had to endure the playoff grind.

I don't much care what Chabot did earlier in his career, although I do agree he looked good early. As this team started to move towards being more competitive, it's blatantly obvious that our 8aav defenceman was not delivering the goods. He's not been particularly healthy and he's not been particularly productive, at either end of the ice, when he is healthy

Chabot's cap hit is T14 for D men this year. He's not delivering that value.

I think we've got some good pieces, but I think pretty much everyone on this board is a bit guilty of overeating the pieces we have. Me included obviously.

 

[ottawah]

I don't disagree, Chabot like the rest of his teammates need to improve his play but like them all, he has proven he can be good. They are almost all underperforming right now.

Regarding Ceci, very underrated on this board. He has been really fine since his season in Pittsburgh, it FIXED him. Like if you loan any of our players to a winning organization (ex Boston), they would all be "fixed" quite fast... until they'd come back here and started being infected again. Need to build that culture. The changes madde under Andlauer are promising at least

Ceci has been a very solid player for Edmonton, but its as a defensive presence. His job is to play other teams top lines, not give the puck away not take bad penalties and to keep the puck out of his own net. Thats what he is excelling at.

Offensively he's OK, but pretty much limited to his general 20-25 point output due to usage. Chabot gets such favorable minutes, he should be blowing him out of the water 5v5, but is not.

Ottawa is certainly a better team with Chabot, he does some nice things, but not at an elite, or arguably even great level.

 

[Puikiou]

**Wrong tread, please delete**

Trade deadline:
1. Tarasenko @50% to a contender for a late 1st.
2. Kubalik @50% to a contender for a bag of pucks.
3. Forsberg to Colorado for a late round pick.
4. Brännström + mid round pick for Dante Fabbro (extend him).

Offseason:
1. Draft Sam Dickinson top 5
2. Chabot to Arizona for Guenther + 1st
3. Sign Formenton
4. 3rd round pick for Andrew Peeke
5. Hamonic + pick for Jamie Benn (1M real salary post bonus)

Tkachuk - Stützle - Giroux/Guenther
Norris - Greig - Batherson
Formenton - Pinto - Joseph
Benn - Kastelic - Smejkal
Kelly/Boucher

Chychrun - Fabbro
Sanderson - Zub
Kleven - Peeke
JBD/Guenette

Korpisalo
Sogaard

 

[ottawah]

Top 6 group (Tkachuk, Stutzle, Batherson, Giroux, Tarasenko, Norris) has 14 goals total in the last 10 games; 3 PP goals (all from Norris)
'
They all have to be better . Most can bring their effort level up a notch or two.

That actually lines up within a game of Martin starting coaching. Not necessarily blaming it on him as Ottawa has actually scored a slight bit more since he took over, but it does make me wonder if there is something in that co-incidence. When Martin left originally it also coincided with a noticeable increase in the teams front line scoring (and scoring overall).

 

[Adrianopolous]

Chabot is more of an offensive D? We agree on that?

Since the 21-22 season, there are 123 guys with 2500 5 on 5 minutes.

Chabot is

66th in p/60.
13th in giveaways/60.
82nd in takeaways/60.
76th in hits/60
82nd in hits taken/60
36th in shots blocked/60.

Summarizing, he's not a big point producer at even strength, he gives the puck away a lot, he is kinda average in takeaways, in hitting guys, in getting hit. The only area where he's clearly above average is blocking shots.

Looking at shot data, it's all pretty middle of the pack. Nothing stands out.

He is first in 5 on 5 toi/game at 5 on 5 over that span, but he also doesn't have near the mileage that other guys do because he rarely PKs. There's 140 guys with 200 minutes of pk time, Chabot is not one of them. PK ice is much more tiring.

If you look at total ice time, he's 83rd in total ice time during that span. Why? Cause he's hurt a lot. He's also not had to endure the playoff grind.

I don't much care what Chabot did earlier in his career, although I do agree he looked good early. As this team started to move towards being more competitive, it's blatantly obvious that our 8aav defenceman was not delivering the goods. He's not been particularly healthy and he's not been particularly productive, at either end of the ice, when he is healthy

Chabot's cap hit is T14 for D men this year. He's not delivering that value.

I think we've got some good pieces, but I think pretty much everyone on this board is a bit guilty of overeating the pieces we have. Me included obviously.

This is the type of post that certain users will ignore

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

That actually lines up within a game of Martin starting coaching. Not necessarily blaming it on him as Ottawa has actually scored a slight bit more since he took over, but it does make me wonder if there is something in that co-incidence. When Martin left originally it also coincided with a noticeable increase in the teams front line scoring (and scoring overall).

According to Hockey Reference he's coached 9 games.

In the 6 games before that the Sens went 1 - 5
They are 3-6 under Jacques.


Now we should expect what exactly a snap turnaround ? With what a couple of practices and a goal to change the mindset and structure of players that were terrible at the details and away from the puck. I think you are looking for something that isn't there and now you want to compare to some anomaly from over 20 years ago .

The success we had leading up to this was not sustainable .. It just wasn't they had no idea how to play the right way.. As soon as they meet a team like LA who can just wear you down .. the Sens were lost. We need to be able to beat those teams if we are going to have any success in the post season , if that day ever comes.
I know Sens fans have been through a lot but we are seriously going to have to reset our expectations and have some patience. There is a significant turn around needed to get this back on the rails with some thing that looks like it can be duplicated game after game.

 

[Beech]

Chabot is more of an offensive D? We agree on that?

Since the 21-22 season, there are 123 guys with 2500 5 on 5 minutes.

Chabot is

66th in p/60.
13th in giveaways/60.
82nd in takeaways/60.
76th in hits/60
82nd in hits taken/60
36th in shots blocked/60.

Summarizing, he's not a big point producer at even strength, he gives the puck away a lot, he is kinda average in takeaways, in hitting guys, in getting hit. The only area where he's clearly above average is blocking shots.

Looking at shot data, it's all pretty middle of the pack. Nothing stands out.

He is first in 5 on 5 toi/game at 5 on 5 over that span, but he also doesn't have near the mileage that other guys do because he rarely PKs. There's 140 guys with 200 minutes of pk time, Chabot is not one of them. PK ice is much more tiring.

If you look at total ice time, he's 83rd in total ice time during that span. Why? Cause he's hurt a lot. He's also not had to endure the playoff grind.

I don't much care what Chabot did earlier in his career, although I do agree he looked good early. As this team started to move towards being more competitive, it's blatantly obvious that our 8aav defenceman was not delivering the goods. He's not been particularly healthy and he's not been particularly productive, at either end of the ice, when he is healthy

Chabot's cap hit is T14 for D men this year. He's not delivering that value.

I think we've got some good pieces, but I think pretty much everyone on this board is a bit guilty of overeating the pieces we have. Me included obviously.

in 2018 we were as spooked a fanbase as Calgary was in 2022.

Eugene and Dorion had shipped out, Karlsson, Stone and a few others. The team was in the dump. The Euge had delivered his famous outdoor speech/threat.

The fan base had hit a 10 on the pissed off scale.

They needed to appease fan anger.. Chabot was the golden boy. Young, a Franco, it was assumed he was the next Erik Karlsson. So they rushed in with a contract..they also did that with Collin white.

Now we see the danger. Now we see why you don't rush with an 8 x 8.. and worse, an 8 x 8 that will pay him 10 M, this year, next and teh year after.. coming down to 8 in the last year.

Dorion and Traeliving need to have few beers together. Chabot and Huberdeau should be best men at each other's weddings!!!! and we need to send Calgary a few tons of Beavertails and have them send us someone's tail.. maybe teh tails of a few Alberta steers..

AAAYYYYE.. if only we knew the problems that were walking in, in August 2003, as the Euge wondered in.

 

[LiseL]

I'm tough on the guy but man has Norris been brutal tonight. I worry he's toast. Looks like a soft 3rd liner.

I remember Mann when in Belleville said he was a 3rd line center. Looks like he was right lol.

 

[LiseL]

I'm definitely not trading Giroux . This team needs him. They should hire him when he calls it quits

I would think Giroux wants to win a cup before he retires so who knows if he wouldn't move to a contending team? I wouldn't be upset if he did. You only get so many kicks at the can and this team ain't it for a long time coming.

 

[ottawah]

According to Hockey Reference he's coached 9 games.

In the 6 games before that the Sens went 1 - 5
They are 3-6 under Jacques.


Now we should expect what exactly a snap turnaround ?

I was talking specifically to the drying up of the offense from "the core", not the record in general.

 

[milkbag]

I would think Giroux wants to win a cup before he retires so who knows if he wouldn't move to a contending team? I wouldn't be upset if he did. You only get so many kicks at the can and this team ain't it for a long time coming.

Family life and settling down seems to be a higher priority for an aging Giroux and his family. Seems his wife agrees.

With a few crafty moves and a quick retool we could easily enter the conversation again next year-- G himself has said he believes in this group. I highly doubt we're going scorched earth and starting back from square one.

 

[dumbdick]

The team always turns it around mid year after the pressure is off.

Jacques is going to look like a savant. In reality, the team would have done the same under DJ.

The team has trouble with pressure. You can see it in errors that cascade through the players. Hopeully they mature out of it with more experience.

 

[Micklebot]

According to Hockey Reference he's coached 9 games.

In the 6 games before that the Sens went 1 - 5
They are 3-6 under Jacques.

Why are you looking at 9 games under Martin and the last 6 under DJ, Last 9 under DJ gives you the exact same record as Martin has, 3-6.

Idk, I expected our defensive play to improve, gradually, under Martin. Not sure that has really happened. Under Martin, xGA/60 has been the worst in the league 5v5 at 3.28/60. Under DJ we were respectable at 2.64, idk, maybe this is just short term pain to get them used to playing the right way, or a level of competition difference?

I think the roster was flawed but reasonable expectations (imo, for the little that's worth) was to see some improvement over last year, rather than regression. Special teams in particular took a major nosedive, I expected it to take a step back but we have too much talent to be so bad on the PP, and I'd like to think we should be at least a bit better than worst in the league on the PK.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Why are you looking at 9 games under Martin and the last 6 under DJ, Last 9 under DJ gives you the exact same record as Martin has, 3-6.

Idk, I expected our defensive play to improve, gradually, under Martin. Not sure that has really happened. Under Martin, xGA/60 has been the worst in the league 5v5 at 3.28/60. Under DJ we were respectable at 2.64, idk, maybe this is just short term pain to get them used to playing the right way, or a level of competition difference?

I think the roster was flawed but reasonable expectations (imo, for the little that's worth) was to see some improvement over last year, rather than regression. Special teams in particular took a major nosedive, I expected it to take a step back but we have too much talent to be so bad on the PP, and I'd like to think we should be at least a bit better than worst in the league on the PK.

Just to show the team was sliding downwards when Martin took over vs compare records