Semin's contract set the starting point for Kessel's?

Riptide · Apr 10, 2013

Garbs said:
Kessel is officially a PPG player for the first time this season.

Here's a list of players who have posted a PPG in each of the last two seasons, while also playing more than 50% of the games:

Evgeni Malkin
Steven Stamkos
Niklas Backstrom
Phil Kessel

Really study this list, nice and long.

And if you go PPG over 3 years... there's only 2. Crosby and Stamkos. And if you go PPG 2 of the last 3 years, there's 11 players. What's your point? But nice way to cherry pick things to make it look as good as possible for him.

Player |2010-11| 2011-12 | 2012-13 | PPG 3 years | PPG 2 years | PPG 2 of 3 years | Current Cap Hit
Evgeni Malkin | 43/37pts | 75/109pts | 27/28pts |

No

|

Yes

|

Yes

|

8.7m

|
Steven Stamkos | 82/91pts | 82/97pts|39/50pts |

Yes

|

Yes

|

Yes

|

7.5m

|
Claude Giroux | 82/76pts |77/93pts|39/38pts |

No

|

Yes*

|

Yes*

|

3.5m

|
Jason Spezza | 62/57pts |80/84pts|5/5pts |

No

|

Yes

|

Yes

|

7m

|
Ilya Kovalchuk | 81/60pts |77/83pts|32/27pts |

No

|

No

||
Phil Kessel | 82/64pts |82/82pts|40/40pts |

No

|

Yes

|

Yes

|

5.25m

|
James Neal | 79/45pts |80/81pts|39/32pts |

No

|

No

||
Joffrey Lupul | 54/31pts |66/67pts|10/14pts |

No

|

Yes

|

Yes

|

4.25m

|
Daniel Sedin |82/104pts|72/67pts|39/33pts |

No

|

No

||
Martin St. Louis |82/99pts|77/74pts|39/49pts |

No

|

No

|

Yes

|
Henrik Sedin | 82/99pts|82/81pts|39/36pts |

No

|

Yes*

|

Yes*

|

6.1m

|
Alex Ovechkin|79/85pts|78/65pts|40/44pts |

No

|

No

|

Yes

|
Henrik Zetterberg|80/80pts|82/69pts|37/35pts |

No

|

No

||
Patrick Kane|73/73pts|82/66pts|39/46pts |

No

|

No

|

Yes

|
Sidney Crosby|41/66pts|22/37pts|36/56pts|

Yes

|

Yes

|

Yes

|

8.7m

|
Pavel Datsyuk|56/59pts|70/67pts|38/38pts|

Yes*

|

Yes*

|

Yes

|

6.7m

|
Nicklas Backstrom|77/65pts|42/44pts|40/42pts|

No

|

Yes

|

Yes

|

6.7m

|
* honorable mention|

The_Chosen_One · Apr 10, 2013

Riptide said:
The thought of paying Kessel anything over 6m is chilling. I'd be alright with 6m, and might be able to stomach 6.25m - maybe. But if the price is 6.5m or more... trade his ass. Just because you have cap space, doesn't mean you fill it with bad contracts - especially for a team that can afford to spend to the cap (vs say Columbus/Phoenix/Florida who will never be cap teams).

Kessel isn't worth $6.5 million, but Paul Stastny is? I don't know if we're watching the same team here, but Kessel has demonstrated that he can make those around him better. In contrast, Paul - not Peter - had Chris Stewart, Milan Hedjuk, on his own line. Not to mention, Duchenet, that two-way guy O'Reilly and Anderson in net.

That team looked a lot more promising than the Leafs. Yet, Kessel even as Lupul went down, went a PPG. We would've easily been in the playoffs (like now) if goaltending didn't break down. In fact, we were outscoring much of the league. If anything, Kessel will probably a receive a minimum of $6.5 million per or more likely within the $7 million-ish range.

HockeyThoughts · Apr 11, 2013

Riptide said:
And if you go PPG over 3 years... there's only 2. Crosby and Stamkos. And if you go PPG 2 of the last 3 years, there's 11 players. What's your point? But nice way to cherry pick things to make it look as good as possible for him.

Player |2010-11| 2011-12 | 2012-13 | PPG 3 years | PPG 2 years | PPG 2 of 3 years | Current Cap Hit
Evgeni Malkin | 43/37pts | 75/109pts | 27/28pts |
No
|
Yes
|
Yes
|
8.7m
|
Steven Stamkos | 82/91pts | 82/97pts|39/50pts |
Yes
|
Yes
|
Yes
|
7.5m
|
Claude Giroux | 82/76pts |77/93pts|39/38pts |
No
|
Yes*
|
Yes*
|
3.5m
|
Jason Spezza | 62/57pts |80/84pts|5/5pts |
No
|
Yes
|
Yes
|
7m
|
Ilya Kovalchuk | 81/60pts |77/83pts|32/27pts |
No
|
No
||
Phil Kessel | 82/64pts |82/82pts|40/40pts |
No
|
Yes
|
Yes
|
5.25m
|
James Neal | 79/45pts |80/81pts|39/32pts |
No
|
No
||
Joffrey Lupul | 54/31pts |66/67pts|10/14pts |
No
|
Yes
|
Yes
|
4.25m
|
Daniel Sedin |82/104pts|72/67pts|39/33pts |
No
|
No
||
Martin St. Louis |82/99pts|77/74pts|39/49pts |
No
|
No
|
Yes
|
Henrik Sedin | 82/99pts|82/81pts|39/36pts |
No
|
Yes*
|
Yes*
|
6.1m
|
Alex Ovechkin|79/85pts|78/65pts|40/44pts |
No
|
No
|
Yes
|
Henrik Zetterberg|80/80pts|82/69pts|37/35pts |
No
|
No
||
Patrick Kane|73/73pts|82/66pts|39/46pts |
No
|
No
|
Yes
|
Sidney Crosby|41/66pts|22/37pts|36/56pts|
Yes
|
Yes
|
Yes
|
8.7m
|
Pavel Datsyuk|56/59pts|70/67pts|38/38pts|
Yes*
|
Yes*
|
Yes
|
6.7m
|
Nicklas Backstrom|77/65pts|42/44pts|40/42pts|
No
|
Yes
|
Yes
|
6.7m
|
* honorable mention|

The real question is, what is your point?

That is some ridiculously elite company to be listed among.

pcruz · Apr 11, 2013

I would not want to be named in the same offensive statistical group as Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Stamkos, Sedin #1, Sedin #2, Datsyuk, Kovalchuck, Giroux, St. Louis, etc...

And I definitely would not want to use their contracts as a base for my contract negotiations.

Who the hell would?

Leaf Rocket · Apr 11, 2013

HockeyThoughts said:
The real question is, what is your point?

That is some ridiculously elite company to be listed among.

I dont get it either.

This place sure became a ghost-thread in the past few games. :laugh:

Regadless, Kessel is back on his what? 34 goal pace I think? He's on route for a 48 points, 17 goals, 31 assists, in 48 games. Over a full season 96 points, 34 goals and a career high 62 assists.

anderson3133 · Apr 11, 2013

Leaf Rocket said:
I dont get it either.

This place sure became a ghost-thread in the past few games.

Regadless, Kessel is back on his what? 34 goal pace I think? He's on route for a 48 points, 17 goals, 31 assists, in 48 games. Over a full season 96 points, 34 goals and a career high 62 assists.

I don't normally question you, but your math seems horribly flawed on this one LR :laugh:

Kessel goes from 48 points in 48 games to 96 points in 82 games?

Leaf Rocket · Apr 11, 2013

anderson3133 said:
I don't normally question you, but your math seems horribly flawed on this one LR

Kessel goes from 48 points in 48 games to 96 points in 82 games?

yikes im awful, i doubled it in hastiness! so shall we just call it another year where he's is in PPG? also still remember how a lot of people said it wasn't kessel who was driving lupul but vice versa. :laugh:

yea i need to go to sleep.

anderson3133 · Apr 11, 2013

Leaf Rocket said:
yikes im awful, i doubled it in hastiness! so shall we just call it another year where he's is in PPG? also still remember how a lot of people said it wasn't kessel who was driving lupul but vice versa.

yea i need to go to sleep.

Sadly.

Enjoy your sleep LR.

Rants Mulliniks · Apr 11, 2013

Riptide said:
And if you go PPG over 3 years... there's only 2. Crosby and Stamkos. And if you go PPG 2 of the last 3 years, there's 11 players. What's your point? But nice way to cherry pick things to make it look as good as possible for him.

Player |2010-11| 2011-12 | 2012-13 | PPG 3 years | PPG 2 years | PPG 2 of 3 years | Current Cap Hit
Evgeni Malkin | 43/37pts | 75/109pts | 27/28pts |
No
|
Yes
|
Yes
|
8.7m
|
Steven Stamkos | 82/91pts | 82/97pts|39/50pts |
Yes
|
Yes
|
Yes
|
7.5m
|
Claude Giroux | 82/76pts |77/93pts|39/38pts |
No
|
Yes*
|
Yes*
|
3.5m
|
Jason Spezza | 62/57pts |80/84pts|5/5pts |
No
|
Yes
|
Yes
|
7m
|
Ilya Kovalchuk | 81/60pts |77/83pts|32/27pts |
No
|
No
||
Phil Kessel | 82/64pts |82/82pts|40/40pts |
No
|
Yes
|
Yes
|
5.25m
|
James Neal | 79/45pts |80/81pts|39/32pts |
No
|
No
||
Joffrey Lupul | 54/31pts |66/67pts|10/14pts |
No
|
Yes
|
Yes
|
4.25m
|
Daniel Sedin |82/104pts|72/67pts|39/33pts |
No
|
No
||
Martin St. Louis |82/99pts|77/74pts|39/49pts |
No
|
No
|
Yes
|
Henrik Sedin | 82/99pts|82/81pts|39/36pts |
No
|
Yes*
|
Yes*
|
6.1m
|
Alex Ovechkin|79/85pts|78/65pts|40/44pts |
No
|
No
|
Yes
|
Henrik Zetterberg|80/80pts|82/69pts|37/35pts |
No
|
No
||
Patrick Kane|73/73pts|82/66pts|39/46pts |
No
|
No
|
Yes
|
Sidney Crosby|41/66pts|22/37pts|36/56pts|
Yes
|
Yes
|
Yes
|
8.7m
|
Pavel Datsyuk|56/59pts|70/67pts|38/38pts|
Yes*
|
Yes*
|
Yes
|
6.7m
|
Nicklas Backstrom|77/65pts|42/44pts|40/42pts|
No
|
Yes
|
Yes
|
6.7m
|
* honorable mention|

LOL. I'm pretty sure Phil's numbers speak loudly enough for themselves that no one needs to "cherry pick" to make him look good.

Faltorvo · Apr 11, 2013

The_Chosen_One said:
Kessel isn't worth $6.5 million, but Paul Stastny is? I don't know if we're watching the same team here, but Kessel has demonstrated that he can make those around him better. In contrast, Paul - not Peter - had Chris Stewart, Milan Hedjuk, on his own line. Not to mention, Duchenet, that two-way guy O'Reilly and Anderson in net.

That team looked a lot more promising than the Leafs. Yet, Kessel even as Lupul went down, went a PPG. We would've easily been in the playoffs (like now) if goaltending didn't break down. In fact, we were outscoring much of the league. If anything, Kessel will probably a receive a minimum of $6.5 million per or more likely within the $7 million-ish range.

It's gonna be a 60m contact.

Faltorvo · Apr 11, 2013

Leaf Rocket said:
yikes im awful, i doubled it in hastiness! so shall we just call it another year where he's is in PPG? also still remember how a lot of people said it wasn't kessel who was driving lupul but vice versa.

yea i need to go to sleep.

Thats it, remove the purple on the grounds of shenanigans.

28g/54a pace.

Rants Mulliniks · Apr 13, 2013

eyeball11 said:
cup67 must be happy After saying "whoever steps up in the final 10 games when it matters most is the real MVP of this team", who pots 4 goals in 2 games but his most hated, bum of a player, Phil! Trade the bum!!!

Soooo...first 3 games of the final 10 for Kessel:

5 G 2 A +4

Bum! Trade him!! Can't compete when it matters!!! :laugh:

johnny_rudeboy · Apr 13, 2013

Kessel have been really good lately. Well he have been good the whole season but he looks to have found another gear lately. Hopefully he keeps it up WHEN we get in to the playoffs.

TheOneArmedMan · Apr 13, 2013

eyeball11 said:
Soooo...first 3 games of the final 10 for Kessel:

5 G 2 A +4

Bum! Trade him!! Can't compete when it matters!!!

but.....but his +- has been crap all season.... lol people complaining about a useless stat

pcruz · Apr 14, 2013

Is it fair to say that Kessel has had a major role in some of the last Leafs games?

Could it be argued that he provided all the offense for what could be a major home and home series near the end of the season? A series that could have been rather damaging to the team's standings.

Are some of the doubters here ready to grudgingly acknowledge the fact that Kessel is amongst the very best offensive players in the league, that he has improved his overall game, and that opposing teams really believe that he is still the main threat on the team despite Kadri putting up very good offensive numbers?

As for the topic at hand, is someone with a below average defensive game, but with consecutive top 10 finishes in points, worth a contract similar, if not superior to, other players who produce less offensively, and contribute just as much defensively?

LEAFSIN4 · Apr 14, 2013

pcruz said:
Is it fair to say that Kessel has had a major role in some of the last Leafs games?

Could it be argued that he provided all the offense for what could be a major home and home series near the end of the season? A series that could have been rather damaging to the team's standings.

Are some of the doubters here ready to grudgingly acknowledge the fact that Kessel is amongst the very best offensive players in the league, that he has improved his overall game, and that opposing teams really believe that he is still the main threat on the team despite Kadri putting up very good offensive numbers?

As for the topic at hand, is someone with a below average defensive game, but with consecutive top 10 finishes in points, worth a contract similar, if not superior to, other players who produce less offensively, and contribute just as much defensively?

if that doesn't shut people up, nothing will.

Take out Kessel's first 10 games this season.

31 GP 15 G/ 21 A/ 36 PTS (on pace for 40 G/ 55 A/ 95 PTS over a full season)

Don't Believe Me, Just Watch

RhyZa · Apr 14, 2013

superleafsfan said:
if that doesn't shut people up, nothing will.

Take out Kessel's first 10 games this season.

31 GP 15 G/ 21 A/ 36 PTS (on pace for 40 G/ 55 A/ 95 PTS over a full season)

Don't Believe Me, Just Watch

You don't get to take out games then extrapolate numbers to determine a player's worth.

The Blue Devil · Apr 14, 2013

Riptide said:
The thought of paying Kessel anything over 6m is chilling. I'd be alright with 6m, and might be able to stomach 6.25m - maybe. But if the price is 6.5m or more... trade his ass. Just because you have cap space, doesn't mean you fill it with bad contracts - especially for a team that can afford to spend to the cap (vs say Columbus/Phoenix/Florida who will never be cap teams).

So you'd be hesitant to pay PPG player more than 6mil?

The Apologist · Apr 14, 2013

The Blue Devil said:
So you'd be hesitant to pay PPG player more than 6mil?

If some people on these boards were ever GMs, this team would never have any talented players. They would lowball everyone we currently have and watch them walk.

Meanwhile, all the super talented 'far superior' players would be re-signing with their teams.

They'd then have a team full of 3/4 scrubs as they sit there wondering how their brilliant plan went do wrong.

The Blue Devil · Apr 14, 2013

The Apologist said:
If some people on these boards were ever GMs, this team would never have any talented players. They would lowball everyone we currently have and watch them walk.

Meanwhile, all the super talented 'far superior' players would be re-signing with their teams.

They'd then have a team full of 3/4 scrubs as they sit there wondering how their brilliant plan went do wrong.

I honestly don't get it. We're in our most important stretch of the season and Kessel is absolutely tearing it up and some still don't think he's worth more than 6mil, it's laughable to say the least. Not to mention he's on pace for yet another PPG season while also on pace for a 4th straight 30+ goal season.

cyris · Apr 14, 2013

The Apologist said:
If some people on these boards were ever GMs, this team would never have any talented players. They would lowball everyone we currently have and watch them walk.

Meanwhile, all the super talented 'far superior' players would be re-signing with their teams.

They'd then have a team full of 3/4 scrubs as they sit there wondering how their brilliant plan went do wrong.

And every GM in the league would have their phone # blocked after repeated attempts to trade 4th line scrubs for allstars.

LEAFSIN4 · Apr 14, 2013

RhyZa said:
You don't get to take out games then extrapolate numbers to determine a player's worth.

I'm just pointing out the pace that he's been playing at since the early season slump when everyone was calling for his head.

BayStreetBullies* · Apr 14, 2013

RhyZa said:
You don't get to take out games then extrapolate numbers to determine a player's worth.

But it's ok to perpetuate the myth that Kessel is a one-dimensional, soft winger. :sarcasm:

Petes2424 · Apr 14, 2013

Riptide said:
The thought of paying Kessel anything over 6m is chilling. I'd be alright with 6m, and might be able to stomach 6.25m - maybe. But if the price is 6.5m or more... trade his ass. Just because you have cap space, doesn't mean you fill it with bad contracts - especially for a team that can afford to spend to the cap (vs say Columbus/Phoenix/Florida who will never be cap teams).

Buckle your jeans and get ready cause he's going to get quite a bit more than $6 million.

RhyZa · Apr 14, 2013

BayStreetBullies said:
But it's ok to perpetuate the myth that Kessel is a one-dimensional, soft winger.

Nice straw-man argument you got there.

One is subjective, one isn't.

Semin's contract set the starting point for Kessel's?

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