Seemingly Small Moves That Ended Up Having Major Consequences

[Brodeur]

I'm sure Dean Lombardi isn't losing sleep about this plus two Cup rings, but fun to think about the butterfly effect:

2006 Draft: Lombardi is hired by LA a couple months before the draft. He had spent the season on the pro scouting side with the Flyers, so he wasn't particularly well-versed with the draft crop. Lombardi mostly let the incumbent scouts run the show. Lombardi inherited a Kings roster with a ton of young forwards but not much on blue line.

In the first round, the scouts picked Jonathan Bernier and Trevor Lewis. With pick #48, former Kings scout Grant Sonier said they wanted to take Milan Lucic. Lombardi intervened and told them to take a defenseman. They ended up taking a D named Joe Ryan who didn't pan out. Lucic went #50 to Boston.

2009 Draft: Lombardi had penciled in Kyle Clifford with pick #35. Lucic just had a breakout season with Boston and Clifford was a Lucic-esque prospect. As the draft unfolded, the Kings scouts are surprised to see Ryan O'Reilly dropping and they implore Lombardi to try to get him. Apparently there were offers that would have allowed LA to get O'Reilly but all required giving up pick #35. Lombardi didn't think Clifford would last until their 3rd rounder, so he didn't do the deal. O'Reilly goes #33 to Colorado.

2015 Draft: Story goes that Kings assistant GM Mike Futa starts talking with Boston the night before the draft. The two teams happened to be staying at the same hotel. Lucic is brought up and talks unexpectedly got serious to the point where Lombardi had to be summoned. LA eventually sent Martin Jones, Colin Miller, and pick #13 for a retained Lucic. Futa would later say that Matt Barzal was the highest remaining guy on their board had they kept the pick.

TL;DR - Lombardi passing on Milan Lucic in 2006 might have cost them Ryan O'Reilly and Matt Barzal down the line. Butterfly effect is whether Boston and St. Louis win their Cups in this scenario as well.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Going way back to 1983. The Kings draft Kevin Stevens in the 6th round. A couple months later they trade him to the Penguins for role player Anders Håkansson before the season even begins because lord knows the Penguins are not trying to win games in 1983-84. Håkansson is retired by the time Kevin Stevens makes his debut, right in time to be a massive piece for the early 90s Penguins, helping win a couple Stanley Cups. 61 playoff points (30+31 in 45 GP) in those two Cup runs for Stevens, or as many points as Håkansson would score over 3 seasons with the Kings.

I think this example always jumped out to me because Stevens was traded so soon after being drafted. You rarely ever see that...and this is probably one of the reasons why. It took 4 1/2 years for Stevens to play a game for the Penguins, but damn did that seemingly minor move years before pay off in spades.

 

[Super Hans]

What about moves that prevented major consequences? Pretty sure Varlamov was ready to bolt back to KHL after losing his starter role in Washington to Neuvirth before the Avs made the trade. His KHL team was Lokomotiv Yaroslavl...

 

[Brodeur]

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/lightning-acquire-rights-to-ryan-malone-gary-roberts-1.743571

In June 2008, Pittsburgh traded the rights to Ryan Malone and Gary Roberts to Tampa for a 2009 3rd round pick.

No offer: Sens ship Meszaros to Tampa

www.sportsnet.ca

The Lightning’s offer sheet was reportedly a multi-year deal worth around US$5 million per season. Meszaros made $984,200 last season.

Had the Lightning signed Meszaros away from Ottawa, the Senators would have received first-, second- and third-round picks as compensation. That presented a snag for Tampa Bay, which had traded its third-rounder to Pittsburgh for Ryan Malone on June 28.

Later that summer, Tampa's new management group wanted to acquire a young established NHL defenseman to pair with Steven Stamkos. Their target was Andrej Meszaros who was an RFA and Ottawa didn't have much cap space.

Rumor was that Meszaros and Tampa had agreed to terms, but Tampa couldn't submit an offer sheet because they were missing that 2009 3rd round pick. They apparently tried to get it back from Pittsburgh, but Penguins GM Ray Shero thought he was doing the honorable thing by not enabling.

On the eve of training camp, Tampa and Ottawa worked out a trade instead. Ottawa thought its window was still open so they didn't want just picks in return for Meszaros. They'd get back Filip Kuba and San Jose's 1st (acquired in the Dan Boyle deal).

With Meszaros, Tampa still had a terrible 2008-09 season. Had they been able to submit the offer sheet as they originally intended, they would have unwittingly given away the Victor Hedman pick.

TL;DR - Signing Ryan Malone and Gary Roberts would indirectly help Tampa get a couple Cups a decade+ later.

 

[BHD]

It's crazy to think that Kyle Clifford - your stereotypical grinder - was valued more than Ryan O'Reilly - a word-class centre during his prime. Although, it really does change things if they drafted O'Reilly instead. Do they still target Mike Richards a few years later? If not, where do Wayne Simmonds, Brayden Schenn fit into their lineup? Whatever becomes of that second rounder? This doesn't even cover the Flyers side of things... How much different do they look that season?

 

[CDN24]

June 28th 1964 - The Boston bruins draft Ken Dryden and then pretty much immediately trade him to Montreal for a couple guys who will never play. Fast forward 6 almost 7 years later. Bruins are a powerhouse. One the presidents trophy with 57 wins 121 points. Orr coming off a 139 point season.

Habs decide to start the Kid with 6 games NHL experience in rd one of the playoffs against the might Bruins - He wins

He plays only 8 seasons - wins cup 6 times and eliminates the Bruins 4 times including 77 Finals, 78 finals and 79 semi finals

 

[TRG]

Pretty much perfectly said here bud. I hate when people play the “this pick turned into this player, so the team who traded the pick basically traded that player”. Not to mention the weird narrative about Broberg.

It’s a lazy hindsight narrative that’s akin to doing a “connect the dots” where you just connect whatever dots you want.

Just a cheap easy way to plug Hutson by members of our fanbase.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Zach Hyman for Greg McKegg was a nothing trade at the time.

While Hyman wasn't scoring 50 goals or anything crazy with Toronto, he was a pretty good support player in his time there.

I believe he wasn't going to sign with Florida. Cant recall if he specifically wanted to go to Toronto, or not.

 

[Boomstick]

2016 Dennis Wideman assaults a referee. Flames have had minimal calls go their way since then, whether it's a penalty for or against, or a goal that's being reviewed. Always on the wrong end of whatever the outcome is. Pretty much in every Flames Game Day Thread, there's a moment where most of us says Thanks Wideman.

 

[Brodeur]

It's crazy to think that Kyle Clifford - your stereotypical grinder - was valued more than Ryan O'Reilly - a word-class centre during his prime. Although, it really does change things if they drafted O'Reilly instead. Do they still target Mike Richards a few years later? If not, where do Wayne Simmonds, Brayden Schenn fit into their lineup? Whatever becomes of that second rounder? This doesn't even cover the Flyers side of things... How much different do they look that season?

Lombardi spent 2003-06 working for the Flyers and he absolutely loved Mike Richards as a result. Even with O'Reilly, I think he would have jumped at the opportunity to get Richards in 2011. Although in the universe where he does get O'Reilly, they probably would have bumped into the same issues that Colorado did with money/role. So LA might not have been able to keep him beyond his ELC.

It was a recurring joke during the Kings rebuild that Lombardi would give presentations to season ticket holders with some future NHL roster spots displayed as empty boxes. So unfortunately for Lombardi, Clifford fit a certain box that they were aiming to fill so he painted himself into a corner and believed that had to get him. Or they had an empty box for puck moving D and that's why they reached for Thomas Hickey in 2007 while mostly ignoring the available forwards.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

In 2018 San Jose offered Tavares 13 mil to sign there before he chose Toronto. I don’t know how close it was, but if he ended up signing with San Jose they most likely don’t end up trading for Karlsson. That means Sens don’t get Stutzle, Cozens (via Norris), and Leevi Merilainen (via Demelo).

Sens would be a completely different franchise (likely even worse) if he chose San Jose.

 

[Fig]

Flames swapped Kazig + 6th for Lack + Murphy (buyout) + 7th.

That 7th became Wolf.

No idea if we still draft wolf if we kept our 6th, but if we wouldn't have because of someone we were interested in was still on the board, then the effects of the 7th being thrown in are even bigger.

Flames were surprised wolf was still at the draft when they drafted him though.

 

[bov]

The Penguins -- despite winning back-to-back cups based on having speed throughout the lineup -- just decided around this point that they had a Tom Wilson problem and made multiple moves to get "tougher" at the expense of what had made them so successful. I'm exaggerating a little that it was this specific fight that caused it, but not that much!




That is also correct

Well, that philosophy backfired horribly as the Pens have done nothing but ice one of the softest teams for years on end since then, and have absolutely nothing to show for it. It's a glaring weakness their organization has refused to address for a long time and they deserve their mediocrity. Painful to watch a team with such little heart and pushback for so long. It's clearly an organizational decision to avoid such players, and I'm actually glad they haven't been rewarded for it. Pathetic.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Håkan Andersson was the only scout to see a 3rd-year draft eligible prospect play in the 97-98 season. There was supposed to be a Flames scout traveling to see him play, but a storm resulted in the flight being canceled.

As a result, Datsyuk fell to the 6th round before getting picked by the Red Wings.

 

[McGarnagle]

Mike O'Connell brought in a no-name 26 year old American goalie who had been playing in the Finnish league to provide more depth for the Providence Bruins in 2002.

 

[Brodeur]

Not sure if this had major repercussions, but this was an amusing story as the Kings CBA expert got confused by the CBA.

According to former Kings assistant GM Mike Futa, LA intended to draft Radko Gudas in the 7th round in 2009. VP of Hockey Ops Jeff Solomon stepped in and said they should bypass Gudas and sign him after the draft.

In 2008, Martin Jones had gone undrafted but LA signed him after the draft. Solomon thought they could do the same with Gudas, but he misunderstood the CBA rules. You can sign an undrafted guy if he played a draft season in North America. Gudas was set to play in the WHL in 2009-10 but hadn't yet, so he had to go back into the 2010 draft pool.

Gudas attended LA's 2009 summer camp as an invite and impressed. Futa said the scouts would playfully jab Solomon for messing that pick up. Gudas would end up going in the 3rd round (#66) in 2010 to Tampa. Maybe not coincidentally, LA would trade #79 for a future 3rd.

Not sure what the butterfly effect would be though. LA struggled to find a replacement for Slava Voynov (22 minutes/game) after his suspension/departure in 2014-15. They'd bring in guys like Andrej Sekera, Christian Ehrhoff, and Dion Phaneuf to fill in that void. Although I don't think a young Gudas could have all of Voynov's minutes but he would have been a decent fit on their right side.

 

[ThatDudeSakic]

Buffalo not letting Eichel getthe surgery he wanted.

 

[thestonedkoala]

A wildfire in California stranded an NHL scout in Russia, which led Minnesota to watch Kaprizov and then somehow he got passed up by a lot. Like everyone has played hot potato with Kaprizov including Vegas.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

When Pacioretty demanded a trade out of Montreal, Vegas wouldn't budge on Bergevin's demands for Vegas to send Cody Glass back to Montreal. Bergevin finally caved and took Suzuki instead. That is a huge turnaround for the Habs franchise.

...to expand on this a bit further, it was Trevor Timmins, at the time Montreal's "Draft Guru" and Director of Scouting, that finally convinced Bergevin to accept Nick Suzuki and Tomas Tatar (the "Cap Dump" to somewhat even the money out) for a disgruntled Patches...

 

[castle]

Winnipegs 4 game season ending winning streak appeared to ruin their draft position. They ended up winning the 2nd pick lottery and drafted Laine. Laine was magically transformed into Dubois, who was traded for Iafallo, Vilardi, and Kupari. All three are regulars for a team vying for first overall. Meanwhile Dubois is a productive member of a team vying for first overall as well, the team that traded him away (LA) is looking great this year... and then there's Colombus, the team bumped down to third overall because Winnipeg won that draft lottery.

 

[Fig]

A wildfire in California stranded an NHL scout in Russia, which led Minnesota to watch Kaprizov and then somehow he got passed up by a lot. Like everyone has played hot potato with Kaprizov including Vegas.

Ah.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, a snowstorm ended up causing Weisbrod to be stranded, so he went to watch Jankowski play. This caused the "best player in the draft" embarrassment that still exists to this day.

IMO Jankowski has had a decent career and is still sticking around. But IMO it could have been better, but Weisbrod derailed it.

 

[Brodeur]

Winnipegs 4 game season ending winning streak appeared to ruin their draft position. They ended up winning the 2nd pick lottery and drafted Laine. Laine was magically transformed into Dubois, who was traded for Iafallo, Vilardi, and Kupari. All three are regulars for a team vying for first overall. Meanwhile Dubois is a productive member of a team vying for first overall as well, the team that traded him away (LA) is looking great this year... and then there's Colombus, the team bumped down to third overall because Winnipeg won that draft lottery.

Calgary Flames vs. Vancouver Canucks Box Score: April 14, 1999 | Hockey-Reference.com

Get the latest box score updates on the Calgary Flames vs. Vancouver Canucks game played on April 14, 1999 on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

One interesting "what if" for me was a mostly meaningless Calgary/Vancouver 1998-99 season finale. Cory Stillman scored with four seconds remaining in regulation to give Calgary the win. If Vancouver had gotten at least a tie out of the game, they would have flipped spots pre-lottery with the Islanders.

1. Tampa Bay (47 points)
2. Atlanta - expansion
3. NY Islanders (58 points)
4. Vancouver (59 points)

Assuming Chicago still wins the lottery to move from #8 to #4, do the Sedins still end up in Vancouver? In his autobiography, Brian Burke said Chicago GM Bob Murray approached him about trading #3 because they wanted both twins on the Blackhawks. In this scenario, can Murray talk Mike Milbury out of the pick? Or do the Sedins get split up?

 

[Dirty Dog]

The Sabres traded multiple draft picks for a middling prospect, Fasching. Failed to develop him and let his rights expire.

Two years ago, when they missed the playoffs by one point, they lose a game down the stretch when Fasching kicked in a goal.

 

[Giant Panda]

A single YouTube video got the Habs to the finals.



A YouTuber named Galaxy made a YouTube video of an undersized Calgary Flames player. It went viral and was seen by members of the Montreal Canadiens. Shortly after, the player went on waivers and Montreal claimed Paul Byron.

Meanwhile, the video was eventually seen by someone else, Paul Byron. He credits the video for realizing that he needs to slow down on rushes, he became a 20 goal scorer because of it.

Paul Byron was a fantastic forechecker, he stabilized Montreal's attack. Montreal with him in the lineup were among the best teams in the league, without him were among the worse. He helped the team complete their identity as a great forechecking team, without him they don't get to the finals.

He's now in player development with the Habs.

 

[Craig Ludwig]

...to expand on this a bit further, it was Trevor Timmins, at the time Montreal's "Draft Guru" and Director of Scouting, that finally convinced Bergevin to accept Nick Suzuki and Tomas Tatar (the "Cap Dump" to somewhat even the money out) for a disgruntled Patches...

Great point. And Tatar was a hoot for a few years in Montreal, Tomas Tataaaaaarrrr!!!!