Proposal: Seattle / Colorado

[Fistfullofbeer]

Gonna be hard to hit homeruns as well given the market. There's a plethora of rentals available this year and if you believe Friedman/others Vancouver is partially cleaning house on guys signed through next year as well(Both Miller and Garland apparently available). I think absolute best case scenario for Seattle is a 2nd rounder for Jarnkrok, 3rd rounder for Johansson, and 2nd + prospect for Gio(@50% retained).

I agree with your values for Jarnkrok and Johansson is right but I expect Gio to get a late 1st + prospect at 50% retention. There are other pieces that the Kraken may want to move out too like Blackwell who could get a mid-to-late round pick back.

 

[Richard88]

a top half 1st pick who isn’t an impact player by yr 4 is bust levrl. The fact he was a former 1st means nothing in trade comp value.

you had Soucy at 50% fir all next year. That raises the ante considerably to a 1st round value for a likely final 4 team like Colorado.

On most other teams Kaut would already have broken into the NHL by now. It just so happens that he's on one of the deepest teams in the league which has made it harder for him to stick.

His game isn't even all about scoring either. He was always projecting as a 3rd line sort of player. He may not make it with the Avs due to not having the speed for Bednar's ridiculously up-tempo style, but I'd be surprised if he doesn't find success somewhere in the NHL at some point.

50% retention is only $1.375m, hardly a massive amount that warrants a 1st. Anyways, happy for Seattle to keep him if that's what the asking price is.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

On most other teams Kaut would already have broken into the NHL by now. It just so happens that he's on one of the deepest teams in the league which has made it harder for him to stick.

His game isn't even all about scoring either. He was always projecting as a 3rd line sort of player. He may not make it with the Avs due to not having the speed for Bednar's ridiculously up-tempo style, but I'd be surprised if he doesn't find success somewhere in the NHL at some point.

50% retention is only $1.375m, hardly a massive amount that warrants a 1st. Anyways, happy for Seattle to keep him if that's what the asking price is.

Players who can break out generally find a way to do so. Not doing so over 4 years is not really a great sign for his future. Best of luck to him and maybe he figures it out wherever he goes (or stays).

I think it would just be in the Kraken's best benefit to move those players in the OP with individual deals than packaging them up. Jarnkrok on his own should land us a 2nd round pick (without retention). I expect Soucy does that with like 25% retention. Daccord we have zero interest in moving because he is our only waiver exempt goalie. Because of that the value of Daccord is a lot higher to us than the Avs or most other teams.

Kraken are more than happy to retain on players but when the best offer coming back for Soucy, Jarnkrok and Daccord is a 2nd round pick in 2023 or a prospect like Kaut who projects to be a 3rd line type of player (your words), there is no reason for us to make the deal.

 

[nightonthesun]

Kaut still a big dice roll; no way the Kraken risk wasting assets like that

 

[HoseEmDown]

Switch Kaut to Barron or Olausson and then Seattle considers. Kaut just doesn't have the value to be the main piece in the deal. He also will be waiver eligible next season and he hasn't shown he's a full time NHLer yet so there's huge risk for Seattle. They can target him next season for a pick if he might not crack the Colorado lineup.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Switch Kaut to Barron or Olausson and then Seattle considers. Kaut just doesn't have the value to be the main piece in the deal. He also will be waiver eligible next season and he hasn't shown he's a full time NHLer yet so there's huge risk for Seattle. They can target him next season for a pick if he might not crack the Colorado lineup.

None of what what was in the original post beings back what you mentioned. Nice try though.

 

[HoseEmDown]

None of what what was in the original post beings back what you mentioned. Nice try though.

The offer was Kaut+ for Jankrok and Soucy both at 50%. Kaut is not the piece that gets those players at 50%, Barron or Olausson makes Seattle consider. Kaut has 3rd round value right now which probably drops to 4th round next season when he's waiver eligible. Soucy, especially at 50%, for another year and Jankrok both have at least 2nd round value. The deal falls way short for Seattle.

 

[John Mandalorian]

The offer was Kaut+ for Jankrok and Soucy both at 50%. Kaut is not the piece that gets those players at 50%, Barron or Olausson makes Seattle consider. Kaut has 3rd round value right now which probably drops to 4th round next season when he's waiver eligible. Soucy, especially at 50%, for another year and Jankrok both have at least 2nd round value. The deal falls way short for Seattle.

Barron or Olausson is not something Colorado offers for that. Seattle I'd allowed to say no to Kaut.

This whole board is an echo chamber of outrageous asks all while it's likely a buyers market.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Barron or Olausson is not something Colorado offers for that. Seattle I'd allowed to say no to Kaut.

This whole board is an echo chamber of outrageous asks all while it's likely a buyers market.

I'd say the outrageous asks are from both the sellers and buyers perspectives here.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Barron or Olausson is not something Colorado offers for that. Seattle I'd allowed to say no to Kaut.

This whole board is an echo chamber of outrageous asks all while it's likely a buyers market.

I'd say that goes both ways. Let's not pretend that the offer in the OP is any less outrageous.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I'd say the outrageous asks are from both the sellers and buyers perspectives here.

No. You see people bring up old comps when circumstances were different.

Additionally, you always see this posturing of, "If you're interested in your player, as a rule, you must overpay" Its daft. And its out if control.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I'd say that goes both ways. Let's not pretend that the offer in the OP is any less outrageous.

The OP was pretty close to fair.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

No. You see people bring up old comps when circumstances were different.

I think this is accurate and yet this is all that can be done. Every trade scenario and player is different. The closest comps, old or new, from a value perspective may not apply any more because of the various reasons.

Additionally, you always see this posturing of, "If you're interested in your player, as a rule, you must overpay" Its daft. And its out if control.

Yes. And that goes both ways as well. Every counter is almost dealt with, you guys have no idea about the prospect/player that is offered and/or no way is that player what you claim him to be. Its funny because it goes both ways.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

The OP was pretty close to fair.

LOL. Ok. Lets just agree to disagree with here because I find that offer to be as absurd as what you found the counter to be.

 

[John Mandalorian]

LOL. Ok. Lets just agree to disagree with here because I find that offer to be as absurd as what you found the counter to be.

What do you think the Avs traded away for Burakovsky and Toews? Now compare that to what these players would be worth now. Do you think Kaut would have a similarly difficult time cracking the Kraken lineup vs the Avs?

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

What do you think the Avs traded away for Burakovsky and Toews? Now compare that to what these players would be worth now. Do you think Kaut would have a similarly difficult time cracking the Kraken lineup vs the Avs?

LOL. It's hilarious to see you complaining about old comps and then doing so yourself now.

And there is no conclusive way you could claim that Kaut would crack our lineup. We picked up ABB from the TBL waivers earlier this season and he didn't crack our lineup after the 1st game and got waived by us. And he has been a lot better this season or in the past than Kaut ever has. All Kaut has right now is his 1st round pick status.

You are basically cherry picking arguments to suit your need. I don't really care about what Avs traded for Burakovsky and Toews. We are not Colorado.

Back to the original offer, in no way do we move those three players for the package Colorado is offering. We get much better value elsewhere. The only player among those 3 we lose next season is Jarnkrok and I am confident he can be moved on his own for a 2nd round pick.

 

[John Mandalorian]

LOL. It's hilarious to see you complaining about old comps and then doing so yourself now.

And there is no conclusive way you could claim that Kaut would crack our lineup. We picked up ABB from the TBL waivers earlier this season and he didn't crack our lineup after the 1st game and got waived by us. And he has been a lot better this season or in the past than Kaut ever has. All Kaut has right now is his 1st round pick status.

You are basically cherry picking arguments to suit your need. I don't really care about what Avs traded for Burakovsky and Toews. We are not Colorado.

Back to the original offer, in no way do we move those three players for the package Colorado is offering. We get much better value elsewhere. The only player among those 3 we lose next season is Jarnkrok and I am confident he can be moved on his own for a 2nd round pick.

I'm just saying there's a difference between buying low on a player because he hasn't had the opportunity to thrive and saying a specific player has no value and will always be bad, which is what you're doing.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I'm just saying there's a difference between buying low on a player because he hasn't had the opportunity to thrive and saying a specific player has no value and will always be bad, which is what you're doing.

Ofcourse there is a difference. And that is not to say Kaut does not make his living in the NHL as a bottom-6 player in the next few years. The point is that we have no need for such players/prospects. Kaut can be considered a reclamation project or someone who needs a change in scenery. In that case its in Colorado's best interest to give him more time OR move him for another prospect in a similar situation. Seattle has no interest in such players at this time.

You are asking us to give the benefit of doubt to Kaut but at the same time significantly undervaluing what experienced NHL'ers like Jarnkrok and Soucy bring to the table. Specially Jarnkrok with his 60+ playoff game experience. Trades from the past but players similar to Soucy like Dillon has returned 2 x 2nd round picks on their own. Dillon has done it twice. Again, I am not expecting that return for Soucy but teams value players differently than fans .. and even each other.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Ofcourse there is a difference. And that is not to say Kaut does not make his living in the NHL as a bottom-6 player in the next few years. The point is that we have no need for such players/prospects. Kaut can be considered a reclamation project or someone who needs a change in scenery. In that case its in Colorado's best interest to give him more time OR move him for another prospect in a similar situation. Seattle has no interest in such players at this time.

You are asking us to give the benefit of doubt to Kaut but at the same time significantly undervaluing what experienced NHL'ers like Jarnkrok and Soucy bring to the table. Specially Jarnkrok with his 60+ playoff game experience. Trades from the past but players similar to Soucy like Dillon has returned 2 x 2nd round picks on their own. Dillon has done it twice. Again, I am not expecting that return for Soucy but teams value players differently than fans .. and even each other.

I'm not asking you to give the benefit of the doubt. I don't care what you do. This isn't asking for a favor. If Kaut had lived up to his draft position, he wouldn't likely be attainable to Seattle.

 

[OilersFanatics505]

The OP was pretty close to fair.

Delete. Responded to the wrong Seattle Colorado thread. Why are there 2?

 

[elitepete]

If Colorado is looking for depth, Canucks have some pieces that should be available

F: Motte, Dickinson, Highmore, Lammiko, Chiasson, Bailey < last 3 are trash, though

D: Schenn, Hamonic, Burroughs, Poolman, Hunt, Juulsen < Hunt and Juulsen are trash. Poolman is whatever but has a bad contract

G: Halak, Martin

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I'm not asking you to give the benefit of the doubt. I don't care what you do. This isn't asking for a favor. If Kaut had lived up to his draft position, he wouldn't likely be attainable to Seattle.

What does that have anything to do with our discussion? It's not like we are 2 GM's discussing a trade.

If Kaut had reached his potential maybe the Avs would be playing him on the roster than looking to trade for a player like Jarnkrok. Hard to have a discussion with you because you are not really interested in seeing what type of a trade could work for both sides. Just dismiss Seattle's needs and try to justify why Kaut is someone we may be interested in.

 

[Irie]

The OP was pretty close to fair.

It really isn't.

Let's start with the retention. I am assuming you are unfamiliar with the contracts, because the retention alone is 3 million in cash. That is worth a late 2nd and late 5th alone.

Value aside, Kaut is not at all what Seattle needs, and is not a player they will be targeting to acquire with their best tradeable assets.

As far as Kaut's actual value, he is not Waiver exempt next season and is trending more toward bust as a first round pick than high end prospect. He is not worth Soucy alone, let alone adding, Jarnkrok and Daccord.

 

[kihei]

Just not nearly enough incentive for the Kraken to take a flyer on this one.

 

[Richard88]

Switch Kaut to Barron or Olausson and then Seattle considers. Kaut just doesn't have the value to be the main piece in the deal. He also will be waiver eligible next season and he hasn't shown he's a full time NHLer yet so there's huge risk for Seattle. They can target him next season for a pick if he might not crack the Colorado lineup.

The offer was Kaut+ for Jankrok and Soucy both at 50%. Kaut is not the piece that gets those players at 50%, Barron or Olausson makes Seattle consider. Kaut has 3rd round value right now which probably drops to 4th round next season when he's waiver eligible. Soucy, especially at 50%, for another year and Jankrok both have at least 2nd round value. The deal falls way short for Seattle.

It really isn't.

Let's start with the retention. I am assuming you are unfamiliar with the contracts, because the retention alone is 3 million in cash. That is worth a late 2nd and late 5th alone.

Value aside, Kaut is not at all what Seattle needs, and is not a player they will be targeting to acquire with their best tradeable assets.

As far as Kaut's actual value, he is not Waiver exempt next season and is trending more toward bust as a first round pick than high end prospect. He is not worth Soucy alone, let alone adding, Jarnkrok and Daccord.

Kaut's ELC slid twice so he's still going to be on his ELC next year and hence waiver exempt until the start of 2023/24.