Searching for the Next Elite Number One Center

[Ricky Bobby]

That statement about Kadri is to generalized to merit much agreement i'm thinkin. He has been one of the hottest players in the AHL never mind just with the Marlies. He is still developing elite hands/hockey IQ into a consistant dependable package to bring to the leafs.

A prospect is view tomorrow not today,and that being said needs to be let to develope. He will only get better under Eakins/Carlyle as he is showing.

I'm confident Kadri will be a good NHL player but if he's our # 1 center in the future then Burke will still be searching for a # 1.

Yeah he's scoring at a PPG pace in the AHL and had a good but not amazing junior career. Compare Kadris resume at ages 18-22 to the majority of true # 1 centers like Crosby, Malkin, Toews, Thorton, Speeza, Getzlaf, Richards, Stamkos, Kopitar, E. Staal, Stamkos and his resume is very underwhelming.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I'm confident Kadri will be a good NHL player but if he's our # 1 center in the future then Burke will still be searching for a # 1.

Yeah he's scoring at a PPG pace in the AHL and had a good but not amazing junior career. Compare Kadris resume at ages 18-22 to the majority of true # 1 centers like Crosby, Malkin, Toews, Thorton, Speeza, Getzlaf, Richards, Stamkos, Kopitar, E. Staal, Stamkos and his resume is very underwhelming.

Most of those guys are top 3 picks. Doesn't seem overly fair to compare them.

 

[leafspring*]

This is a ulmer article on the toxins of the tank mentality.

http://blog.mapleleafs.com/tank-nation-fools-paradise/

 

[Mess]

They could also have none of them. Not sure what your point is given Boston is the prime example of winning by NOT building through the draft, given they had 4 self drafted regulars on their Cup winning team and not a single 1st rounder.

Boston's 3 top scoring playoff performers where Lucic, Krecji and Bergeron during its recent Cup win.. All 3 players were self drafted and more importantly Krecji and Bergeron held down their #1 & #2 center positions on that winning team. NHLers are not found only in the 1st round of the entry draft, ask the Cup winning Wings if #1 centres Datsyuk and Zetterburg were not critical self drafted players to their Cup success.

For Boston trading with Toronto the returns were all just gravy and future benefits for a Cup winning team. However for Toronto the asset opportunity loss and players would be key building block at vital positions today.

 

[Jerkini]

I've been crossing my fingers hoping Getzlaf makes it to free agency. It would be an opportunity we can't let pass us by. The Leafs have to do ANYTHING in their power to get him signed. Simple as that.

 

[leafspring*]

I'm confident Kadri will be a good NHL player but if he's our # 1 center in the future then Burke will still be searching for a # 1.

Yeah he's scoring at a PPG pace in the AHL and had a good but not amazing junior career. Compare Kadris resume at ages 18-22 to the majority of true # 1 centers like Crosby, Malkin, Toews, Thorton, Speeza, Getzlaf, Richards, Stamkos, Kopitar, E. Staal, Stamkos and his resume is very underwhelming.

Every player is different,and comparing birth dates to stats is like comparing snow to rain. You can,but i wouldn't put to much emphases on it. Kadri is just starting to dominate the AHL,and when he is consistantly done that for some period of time Burke will have him with the Leafs. Thats the expectation Burke gave him,and he is coming through now a bit.

Kadri is a point producer in the making with elite hands,and hockey IQ capable of possibly having his career end with triple the amount of assists over goals. The quality of wingers he has will dictate his career totals,but he can make chicken salad out of chicken ***** with his passing skills right now.

Kadri is now a high end AHL skater,which is much better than the last time we saw him lace up with the leafs. His skating is significantly improved. Without getting to long winded here,everyone developes at their own pace.

 

[Mess]

I've been crossing my fingers hoping Getzlaf makes it to free agency. It would be an opportunity we can't let pass us by. The Leafs have to do ANYTHING in their power to get him signed. Simple as that.

Then Leaf fans hoping for Getzalf had better hope that Bettman and the Owners do not get their way in the current CBA battle.

Their current offer of 5 year max contracts lengths (7 years to resign your own) and 5% variance be year, and desired increase UFA age to 28 would all negatively effect the Leafs chances of landing Getzlaf.

- Successfully increasing the UFA age by +1 year would make Getzlaf an RFA and not UFA at end of his current contract, taking him off the market.

- The incentive for player security by re-signing with your own team for 7 years or testing free agency for 5 years is increased advantage to remain with his current team.

- Parity in the UFA World by limiting contracts to 5 years and a 5% variance from year to year, effectively neuters rich teams financial muscle for recruitment.. Without the ability (because of affordability) to front load or offer long-term deals some organizations simply can compete with you increase your UFA signing odds by outspending other teams, and removing competition for that player. When the $$ playing surface is leveled however all 29 other NHL teams would put 5 year deals on the table likely for Getzlaf and he will have his choice of playing almost anywhere in the NHL he wants because now money not a deciding factor(essentially equal for all), and location and team competitiveness and other factors will influence choice.

Bottom line : When 30 teams are chasing the same player, Leafs odds of landing Getzlaf become 1/30 or 3% of success and 97% of failure, not great odds and that is if he even makes it the UFA status. If that is truly Leafs best hope for future success to address #1 C desires than I don't like our chances..

 

[leafspring*]

The leafs defense depth is going to contribute to obtaining forward depth. Already did with JVR,and it is either forgotten or dismissed intentionally by some.

 

[Jerkini]

Then Leaf fans hoping for Getzalf had better hope that Bettman and the Owners do not get their way in the current CBA battle.

Their current offer of 5 year max contracts lengths (7 years to resign your own) and 5% variance be year, and desired increase UFA age to 28 would all negatively effect the Leafs chances of landing Getzlaf.

- Successfully increasing the UFA age by +1 year would make Getzlaf an RFA and not UFA at end of his current contract, taking him off the market.

- The incentive for player security by re-signing with your own team for 7 years or testing free agency for 5 years is increased advantage to remain with his current team.

- Parity in the UFA World by limiting contracts to 5 years and a 5% variance from year to year, effectively neuters rich teams financial muscle for recruitment.. Without the ability (because of affordability) to front load or offer long-term deals some organizations simply can compete with you increase your UFA signing odds by outspending other teams, and removing competition for that player. When the $$ playing surface is leveled however all 29 other NHL teams would put 5 year deals on the table likely for Getzlaf and he will have his choice of playing almost anywhere in the NHL he wants because now money not a deciding factor(essentially equal for all), and location and team competitiveness and other factors will influence choice.

Bottom line : When 30 teams are chasing the same player, Leafs odds of landing Getzlaf become 1/30 or 3% of success and 97% of failure, not great odds and that is if he even makes it the UFA status. If that is truly Leafs best hope for future success to address #1 C desires than I don't like our chances..

I've been firmly in the players camp since day one. In fact i've been desperately wishing the PA blows itself up and the cap is abolished and the Leafs are free to do whatever they damn well please. League parity? I'll sleep just fine without it.

 

[ponder]

I agree that a high end #1 centre is a piece we really need. The next draft is AWESOME for centre prospects, as MacKinnon, Barkov, Lindholm and Monahan all look really good. Hopefully we pick very high in the next draft, if we do we could be looking at a great centre. Hard to say what pick we'd need to grab one of these guys, but my personal guess is that we'd need a roughly top 5-8 pick (I see MacKinnon, Jones, Barkov, Lindholm, Monahan and Drouin as the top 6 picks, with maybe one or two of them falling a spot or two out of the top 6).

If we don't, then we really need to go after someone through trades/free agency. Grabo is a very good #2 C, but he's not a good #1. Kadri, I just don't see it. I think his absolute upside would be to become a Mike Ribeiro type player, and Ribeiro has never been a high end #1 C. Good production in his prime, but just not a dominant 2-way player, similar to Kadri. As for our other C prospects (Colborne, McKegg, etc.), I *REALLY* don't see it. If we don't draft one of MacKinnon, Barkov, Lindholm or Monahan, I hope we go hard after Getzlaf (if he becomes a UFA), and failing that, I hope we really push for a trade.

 

[LV*]

It means we draft based on position at the draft, instead of BPA, because we already have goodish D.

 

[Commander Clueless]

I agree that a high end #1 centre is a piece we really need. The next draft is AWESOME for centre prospects, as MacKinnon, Barkov, Lindholm and Monahan all look really good. Hopefully we pick very high in the next draft, if we do we could be looking at a great centre.

If we don't, then we really need to go after someone through trades/free agency. Grabo is a very good #2 C, but he's not a good #1. Kadri, I just don't see it. I think his absolute upside would be to become a Mike Ribeiro type player, and Ribeiro has never been a high end #1 C. Good production in his prime, but just not a dominant 2-way player, similar to Kadri. As for our other C prospects (Colborne, McKegg, etc.), I *REALLY* don't see it. If we don't draft one of MacKinnon/Barkov/Lindholm/Monahan, I hope we go hard after Getzlaf (if he becomes a UFA), and failing that, I hope we really push for a trade.

If you think about it, picking up that potential top flight center in a top 5 ish pick this coming draft makes a world of difference in terms of the future looking bright.

Screw the lottery. Just do the same draft order as last year. Monahan/Lindholm please.

 

[MakeTheIronSing]

Gotta get Mackinnon, like... real bad. Is there a draft without a CBA in place though?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Boston's 3 top scoring playoff performers where Lucic, Krecji and Bergeron during its recent Cup win.. All 3 players were self drafted and more importantly Krecji and Bergeron held down their #1 & #2 center positions on that winning team. NHLers are not found only in the 1st round of the entry draft, ask the Cup winning Wings if #1 centres Datsyuk and Zetterburg were not critical self drafted players to their Cup success.

For Boston trading with Toronto the returns were all just gravy and future benefits for a Cup winning team. However for Toronto the asset opportunity loss and players would be key building block at vital positions today.

So you agree, Boston is the prime example of building a Cup championship team outside of the draft and specifically outside the first round.

 

[ponder]

If you think about it, picking up that potential top flight center in a top 5 ish pick this coming draft makes a world of difference in terms of the future looking bright.

Screw the lottery. Just do the same draft order as last year. Monahan/Lindholm please.

It would make a major difference for sure. However, if there's no season, you can absolutely bet that there will still be a lottery. No matter what criteria they set for the lottery, we should have as good a chance as anyone to pick top 5 or so (since we've been so awful for so long), but it probably still won't be great odds. If we do end up with a pick in more of the 10-15 range, I hope Burke works his absolute butt off trying to trade up, even if it means giving up some reasonably serious assets.

 

[BigWilly]

It would make a major difference for sure. However, if there's no season, you can absolutely bet that there will still be a lottery. No matter what criteria they set for the lottery, we should have as good a chance as anyone to pick top 5 or so (since we've been so awful for so long), but it probably still won't be great odds. If we do end up with a pick in more of the 10-15 range, I hope Burke works his absolute butt off trying to trade up, even if it means giving up some reasonably serious assets.

If we were at 20th+, I'd trade Gardiner and a 1st to get in the top 5 for Lindholm.

 

[Commander Clueless]

It would make a major difference for sure. However, if there's no season, you can absolutely bet that there will still be a lottery. No matter what criteria they set for the lottery, we should have as good a chance as anyone to pick top 5 or so (since we've been so awful for so long), but it probably still won't be great odds. If we do end up with a pick in more of the 10-15 range, I hope Burke works his absolute butt off trying to trade up, even if it means giving up some reasonably serious assets.

Oh I know there will be a lottery. I'm just afraid of the Leafs getting screwed over.

If we end up outside of the top 7 I'm hoping for a trade up as well. We need that pick desperately.

 

[Morlesio14*]

We can hope the salary cap gets lowered a lot and they need to trade him

I agree. I actually don't see why they don't trade him now. Whatever. That would be soooo sick to have him

 

[KuleminFan41]

You directing that to me? I think you need that as a team,and i always want that,but Kadri is definately going to be capable of that in the near future regardless what some here think of him.

No no, it was to the OP

 

[Stephen]

So are you trying to say that we may not exactly need a #1 guy in the traditional sense? Trying to justify us not having one?I'm kind of confused,its interesting because it sounds like maybe we don't need a real #1 and can use Grabo there or something.

No, I'm saying we need one in a terrible way and we need to focus all of our attention towards getting one. You can only shuffle the deck chairs so many times, but this is a foundational issue that needs to be solved.

But we can keep using Grabovski as a number one and be a second class franchise, yeah.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Say we draft 20th overall, our next pick will be 40th right? Would this be terrible?

 

[The Blue Devil]

Boston's 3 top scoring playoff performers where Lucic, Krecji and Bergeron during its recent Cup win.. All 3 players were self drafted and more importantly Krecji and Bergeron held down their #1 & #2 center positions on that winning team. NHLers are not found only in the 1st round of the entry draft, ask the Cup winning Wings if #1 centres Datsyuk and Zetterburg were not critical self drafted players to their Cup success.

For Boston trading with Toronto the returns were all just gravy and future benefits for a Cup winning team. However for Toronto the asset opportunity loss and players would be key building block at vital positions today.

Just because someone plays on the 1st line doesn't make them a 1st line player let alone an elite one. Not saying they're bad or they're not 1st line players, just that they are not elite.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

I'm confident Kadri will be a good NHL player but if he's our # 1 center in the future then Burke will still be searching for a # 1.

Yeah he's scoring at a PPG pace in the AHL and had a good but not amazing junior career. Compare Kadris resume at ages 18-22 to the majority of true # 1 centers like Crosby, Malkin, Toews, Thorton, Speeza, Getzlaf, Richards, Stamkos, Kopitar, E. Staal, Stamkos and his resume is very underwhelming.

Why compare a #2 center to the ELITE #1's in the league?

You're setting up failure. I (and most people who watched him, and follow scouting) never pencilled him in as a #1, because he wasn't ever going to be. He can be a great #2, or a 1LW in the future, but nobody who watched or followed Kadri closely expected him to be anyone's bell cow.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Say we draft 20th overall, our next pick will be 40th right? Would this be terrible?

If we don't play, and there's lottery it would be disappointing.


But, If we play this season, Then No.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Say we draft 20th overall, our next pick will be 40th right? Would this be terrible?

50th.