Player Discussion: Sean Monahan

[stevo61]

I am legit terrified of the possibility that Waddell is thinking something similar and/or that persistent myths about the centers already here are reaching the "true because they're repeated so g-ddamn often" state.

Neutral in the sense that his effect on offense is neatly cancelled by his effect on defense.

Who cares what Waddell thinks in that regard, the coach is going to position people in ways he thinks will help the team. You worry and create the weirdest things to be upset about

 

[KJ Dangler]

True, but he's not going to be much of an upgrade on Jenner in that regard. Different but not better.

OTOH, this does mean less pressure on Jenner. Small victories. That said I think I'd have been happier with Wennberg coming back at the contract San Jose gave him.

He’s a huge upgrade over Jenner . Don said in press conference this allows Boone to slot to wing .. or possibly 3rd center .. with Monahan and Fantilli being 1 and 2 .. he mentioned Sillinger as 3rd and this gives them flexibility

 

[Viqsi]

Who cares what Waddell thinks in that regard

I care because it indicates just how out of touch he is and thus how much of a pickle we're in.

 

[Viqsi]

He’s a huge upgrade over Jenner . Don said in press conference this allows Boone to slot to wing

I am this close to just giving up on hockey altogether.

What's next? He hires McEligott as PBP because "I love those little quips he has when goals are scored"?

 

[stevo61]

I care because it indicates just how out of touch he is and thus how much of a pickle we're in.

Maybe he see's Jenner/Fantilli on a line to help Fantilli out learning the NHL game and position.
Or maybe he means exactly what he said and the team will have options now and wont be forced to do things like play 18 year old Sillinger because we literally had noone else

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I am this close to just giving up on hockey altogether.

What's next? He hires McEligott as PBP because "I love those little quips he has when goals are scored"?

He said it gave them flexibility to move either Sillinger or Jenner to the wing if they wanted to. Not that they were explicitly going to do it.

 

[Viqsi]

Maybe he see's Jenner/Fantilli on a line to help Fantilli out learning the NHL game and position.
Or maybe he means exactly what he said and the team will have options now and wont be forced to do things like play 18 year old Sillinger because we literally had noone else

Dogmatically forcing Boone to the wing is what gets you "18 year old Sillinger because we literally have noone else". That's what people here have been advocating for years - when they're not trying to trade him away for picks, anyways - and that's what Atlanta's Penultimate GM just tacitly endorsed live in a press conference.

EDIT: okay, so maybe not that last, thank G-d

 

[KJ Dangler]

Maybe he see's Jenner/Fantilli on a line to help Fantilli out learning the NHL game and position.
Or maybe he means exactly what he said and the team will have options now and wont be forced to do things like play 18 year old Sillinger because we literally had noone else

If you watched the press conference he see Monahan on top line center , and Fantilli at #2 Center , he mentioned Sillinger at 3rd line center , gives them flexibility with Boone to the wing . He also said Monahan fills a huge leadership quality they were looking to add to the room .


Boone is a much better winger , frees him up to play more physical and freely. Also will add size to the wing position , if him and Voronkov end up on wing with Sillinger, or possibly on 2nd line with KJ and Fantilli

 

[Viqsi]

Boone is a much better winger , frees him up to play more physical and freely

Repeating this over and over doesn't make it any more true. Boone's ability to play physical has absolutely nothing to do with what part of the ice he's in or what else he's responsible for. And he has never been "better as a winger" in reality, only in theory.

He could do it as a tutor for the kids, sure. That makes sense. This insistence that He's Secretly Actually A Winger is f***ing asinine and I'm so g-ddamn done with it.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Monahan is definitely of the ilk of younger Werenski, Jones, and others when it comes to being monotone.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1807885858701467799

 

[Viqsi]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1807885858701467799

I thought everybody knew about that. It got stale within a couple months. I figured it'd died off years ago.

 

[stevo61]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1807885858701467799

Goes back to his rookie year. Lots of us thought it was McGratton but turns out it was Chris Butler that started that account

 

[KJ Dangler]

Repeating this over and over doesn't make it any more true. Boone's ability to play physical has absolutely nothing to do with what part of the ice he's in or what else he's responsible for. And he has never been "better as a winger" in reality, only in theory.

He could do it as a tutor for the kids, sure. That makes sense. This insistence that He's Secretly Actually A Winger is f***ing asinine and I'm so g-ddamn done with it.

Sure he has .. he’s a good fill in center , probably a 2nd line winger , or a 3rd line center . Most likely , like Don envisions as he shapes the team , he slots on wing . Monahan and Fantill are going to have big years

 

[Viqsi]

Sure he has .. he’s a good fill in center , probably a 2nd line winger , or a 3rd line center . Most likely , like Don envisions as he shapes the team , he slots on wing . Monahan and Fantill are going to have big years

Been a #2C for years. His production and performance have never changed, for better OR worse, when he's been moved to the wing. You will not get more out of him that way.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I thought everybody knew about that. It got stale within a couple months. I figured it'd died off years ago.

Everyone is chasing that Andrew Luck account but that one is decently funny I guess.

 

[Xoggz22]

Gets harder and harder to come back to this board... Let's just crucify ever move before we even know what the finished product looks like. If he stays healthy, this contract actually stands a chance of looking very good. I'm not sure how many times I've read on here that the going rate for a 60 pt wing is more than $5.5MM... A WING! (not a Red Wing). He's a center that plays special teams and is good in the faceoff circle. Is it perfect? Of course not, it's why I hate dipping into UFA territory. Funny thing is, had we not we'd be screaming how incompetent the GM is for not getting us immediate help.

Really... no win in here. Brutal crowd but I still luv ya!

 

[stevo61]

Everyone is chasing that Andrew Luck account but that one is decently funny I guess.

Boring Sean Monahan started a couple years before the Luck one. Doesnt Torts have one like that Andrew Luck account though?

 

[KJ Dangler]

Been a #2C for years. His production and performance have never changed, for better OR worse, when he's been moved to the wing. You will not get more out of him that way.

He scored 30 g on the wing .. tops out as a high 40s in points .. Less defensive responsibility, less wear and tear on his back . Monahan will get you mid 60s most years , got into the low 80s one year . Like Don said , they dramatically upgraded the center position today . This allows Fantilli to slot at 2nd center and not be rushed . He’s also a great leader . But please , continue to bitch and moan about the move

 

[majormajor]

Condolences to Jackets fans, this is just a brutal contract.

This would make more sense if not for the fact that Monahan has been a boat anchor dragging Gaudreau down more often than not.

That was really only apparent in the last couple years together when Monahan fell off a cliff physically. At that point Gaudreau was absolutely carrying him and was better off without him. You and I were in agreement at that point.

There were several years prior to that though where Johnny was much better with Monahan than without him. From 2016-2019 they had a 56% goal share together, and Gaudreau was only at 42% with Monahan off ice.

So a lot is riding on Monahan's health.

We might get him for 2-3 years if we offer $7-8M per year, which would not have bothered me. We're not going to be in a cap crunch in that time. He's going to be getting top line minutes for the next couple of years, I have no problem paying him for that. For me, this contract sucks because he's getting paid too long, not too much.

Hopefully the contract is structured in such a way that it makes a buyout after year 3 something easy to do. I don't expect Monahan to be the type of player that gives you anything on the 3rd or 4th line once he's no longer a top 6 player. This is why I have always been comfortable with Lindholm. I could absolutely see Lindholm being a valuable 3rd line contributor late into his 30s.

I would have also preferred a $7m x 3 but there are some advantages to the way they structured it. If Monahan gets completely wrecked you can LTIR the last couple years of his deal.

Neutral in the sense that his effect on offense is neatly cancelled by his effect on defense.

Yes, I think that's a fair characterization of his game when he's in a middle six role.

 

[Viqsi]

He scored 30 g on the wing

I knew this was coming out eventually because it's literally the only thing "Jenner is a winger" advocates have, and it's garbage. That year, Jenner was shooting at 13.3%; his career average is 10.7%. He was having an unusually productive year. And we know it had absolutely nothing to do with him being at center, because he's had similar shooting averages now and then when playing almost exclusively at center - including last season, when he was at 14.2%. And two seasons ago at 14.4%. If it weren't for injuries, he'd have eclipsed 30 goals for the last three seasons running.

Boone Jenner is not "a better winger than a center". He gets the same results either way. His wear and tear isn't because of position; it's because he's being played over twenty minutes a night.

 

[stevo61]

I think some of us hate Monahan because we believe Gaudreau is one of the top players in the league and blame Monahan for holding him back and not the people that put the team and lines together. By some of us I mean 1 person

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

That was really only apparent in the last couple years together when Monahan fell off a cliff physically. At that point Gaudreau was absolutely carrying him and was better off without him. You and I were in agreement at that point.

There were several years prior to that though where Johnny was much better with Monahan than without him. From 2016-2019 they had a 56% goal share together, and Gaudreau was only at 42% with Monahan off ice.

So a lot is riding on Monahan's health.

It's a pretty small sample size of where those two weren't playing together in that span. But yes, when healthy Monahan hasn't been too terrible. He's a smart player and knows how to find space around the mid slot, and is an underrated passer.

But even when healthy, he relied pretty extensively on getting carried by Gaudreau. Look at Monahan's xG share with and without Gaudreau in that span:

 

[Aaaarrgghh]

It's a pretty small sample size of where those two weren't playing together in that span. But yes, when healthy Monahan hasn't been too terrible. He's a smart player and knows how to find space around the mid slot, and is an underrated passer.

But even when healthy, he relied pretty extensively on getting carried by Gaudreau. Look at Monahan's xG share with and without Gaudreau in that span:
View attachment 890985

While I don't think Monahan is the most optimal signing, these numbers suggest a Hyman type of situation to me. As in that it's true that he was achieving those numbers because he's with a star player, but he can play very well with that star player, which is not true for everyone.

 

[Viqsi]

It's a pretty small sample size of where those two weren't playing together in that span. But yes, when healthy Monahan hasn't been too terrible. He's a smart player and knows how to find space around the mid slot, and is an underrated passer.

But even when healthy, he relied pretty extensively on getting carried by Gaudreau. Look at Monahan's xG share with and without Gaudreau in that span:
View attachment 890985

If they can genuinely work well together, that's fine; being able to complement talent well is itself a valuable skill. I'm just not yet sold on that and I feel like we went in the wrong direction w/r/t roster skillset needs.

 

[majormajor]

Boone is a much better winger , frees him up to play more physical and freely. Also will add size to the wing position , if him and Voronkov end up on wing with Sillinger, or possibly on 2nd line with KJ and Fantilli

As centers, Voronkov and Jenner are both better than Fantilli (at this point) and Sillinger.

Why do you keep penciling in the best centers on the wing and poor centers at center?

He scored 30 g on the wing .. tops out as a high 40s in points .. Less defensive responsibility, less wear and tear on his back . Monahan will get you mid 60s most years , got into the low 80s one year . Like Don said , they dramatically upgraded the center position today . This allows Fantilli to slot at 2nd center and not be rushed . He’s also a great leader . But please , continue to bitch and moan about the move

He scored 30 goals one year 9 years ago!

After that his offensive game, as a winger went in the tubes, not even a single 20 goal season.

He didn't rebound until a few years ago with heavy minutes at center. All the moaning about Jenner's usage, and it's been by far the best years of his career. He's been at a 30 goal pace each of the last three seasons.

It's a pretty small sample size of where those two weren't playing together in that span. But yes, when healthy Monahan hasn't been too terrible. He's a smart player and knows how to find space around the mid slot, and is an underrated passer.

But even when healthy, he relied pretty extensively on getting carried by Gaudreau. Look at Monahan's xG share with and without Gaudreau in that span:
View attachment 890985

All true, but at this point we're mainly concerned with what they can do together.