Confirmed Trade: [SEA/NYR] Kaapo Kakko for Will Borgen, 2025 3rd, 2025 6th

[Dfence033]

1. If you don't believe the Rangers have a serious culture and development problem i don't know what else you have to see to believe. This is deeper than just Kakko not reaching his full potential with the Rangers.
2. My point is that you can not say the proof Kakko is NOT good is because he has NOT produced while being on a line with Kreider and Zibanejad, while simultaneously saying Kreider and Zibanejad are "declining/washed up". It does not make sense.
3. Zib and Kreider have not been good 5v5 the last 2 years (Kakko's age 21 and 22 seasons). The years before, that is not an easy ask for a 19 and 20 year old to play against top opponents as you said.
Side note: Even-Strength Scoring includes 3v3 and 4v4 which lead to more offense than 5v5.
4. Zib and Krieder are elite PP players on an elite Rangers PP and has been for a few years (helps to have Fox and Panarin). No one expects there to be a spot for Kakko.
4. Kakko has not evolved into the player everyone envisioned but to say it has nothing to do with the franchise that repeatedly had prospects not fulfill their potential is silly.

Every franchise has prospects not fulfill their “potential.” What other major prospects have the Rangers had in the modern era that could say didn’t meet their potential?

We are talking about projecting a 17 year old to the best league in the world. There will always be some misses, just like the multiple 3rd and 4th round picks the Rangers have had that far exceeded what was expected (or they wouldn’t have fallen so far in their respective drafts). Or even their multiple 1st round picks that didn’t bust.

What did the Rangers do to “ruin” Kakko that they did the opposite of to Cuylle? How about K’Andre Miller? Chytil? Schneider? Shesterkin? Skjei? Buchnevich? JT Miller? Fast? That’s 10 players off the top of my head that most would argue exceeded (often far exceeded) their draft expectations in the last 15 drafts, all by the same team that somehow have a “serious culture and development problem” that failed Kakko, and pretty much ONLY Kakko. And don’t quote Anderson and McIlrath. Every team has multiple picks between 7-10 that don’t pan out.

 

[Guttersniped]

That trade can get a GM fired I doubt he returns next year.

Huh?

Drury’s job is in real danger if his team goes from the President Trophy to missing the playoffs, particularly in a season where the Eastern WC race is looking this weak. The locker-room drama and bad publicity isn’t helping him.

But the Kakko trade won’t have anything to do with that.

Even if Kakko improves, becomes more consistent and gets more ice time, and ends up with 60 points, I doubt NYR ownership will notice and/or care.

And I’m skeptical he does that. Producing for ~10 games and then falling of the face of the earth for +20 is Kakko’s jam.

 

[LBpuzzels]

This is a list of the last 25 first round picks by the Rangers. You can't tell me they do not have a drafting and development problem.
1 EJ Emery 2024 (30)
2 G. Perreault 2023 (23)
3 B. Othmann. 2021 (16)
4 A. Lafreniere. 2020 (1)
5 B. Schneider. 2020 (19)
6 K. Kakko. 2019 (2)
7 V. Kravtsov. 2018 (9)
8 K. Miller. 2018 (22)
9 N. Lundkvist. 2018 (28)
10 L. Andersson. 2017 (7)
11 F. Chytil. 2017 (21)
12 B. Skjei. 2012 (28)
13 J.T. Miller. 2011 (15)
14 D. McIlrath. 2010 (10)
15 C. Kreider. 2009 (19)
16 M. Del Zotto. 2008 (20)
17 Alexei Cherepanov. 2007 (17)
18 B. Sanguinetti 2006 (21)
19 M. Staal 2005 (12)
20 A. Montoya 2004 (6)
21 L. Korpikoski 2004 (19)
22 H. Jessiman. 2003 (12)
23 D. Blackburn. 2001 (10)
24 P. Brendl. 1999 (4)
25 J. Lundmark. 1999 (9)

Skjei and JT Miller they dumped before they took off. Fast is a nice player but come on. People are calling for K. Miller head because of how poorly he's played.

You say don't bring up Lias Anderson but when they drafted him everyone said they reached for him and he might not be a top line center but he is a character guy that will one day wear a letter for them and look how that turned out. It's not just that some guys are not working out. It is how it doesn't work out or they get sent away and turn it around.
Yes they have some hits but those seem to be the exceptions not the rule

 

[The don godfather]

This is a list of the last 25 first round picks by the Rangers. You can't tell me they do not have a drafting and development problem.
1 EJ Emery 2024 (30)
2 G. Perreault 2023 (23)
3 B. Othmann. 2021 (16)
4 A. Lafreniere. 2020 (1)
5 B. Schneider. 2020 (19)
6 K. Kakko. 2019 (2)
7 V. Kravtsov. 2018 (9)
8 K. Miller. 2018 (22)
9 N. Lundkvist. 2018 (28)
10 L. Andersson. 2017 (7)
11 F. Chytil. 2017 (21)
12 B. Skjei. 2012 (28)
13 J.T. Miller. 2011 (15)
14 D. McIlrath. 2010 (10)
15 C. Kreider. 2009 (19)
16 M. Del Zotto. 2008 (20)
17 Alexei Cherepanov. 2007 (17)
18 B. Sanguinetti 2006 (21)
19 M. Staal 2005 (12)
20 A. Montoya 2004 (6)
21 L. Korpikoski 2004 (19)
22 H. Jessiman. 2003 (12)
23 D. Blackburn. 2001 (10)
24 P. Brendl. 1999 (4)
25 J. Lundmark. 1999 (9)

Skjei and JT Miller they dumped before they took off. Fast is a nice player but come on. People are calling for K. Miller head because of how poorly he's played.

You say don't bring up Lias Anderson but when they drafted him everyone said they reached for him and he might not be a top line center but he is a character guy that will one day wear a letter for them and look how that turned out. It's not just that some guys are not working out. It is how it doesn't work out or they get sent away and turn it around.
Yes they have some hits but those seem to be the exceptions not the rule

Broadway circus.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

This is a list of the last 25 first round picks by the Rangers. You can't tell me they do not have a drafting and development problem.
1 EJ Emery 2024 (30)
2 G. Perreault 2023 (23)
3 B. Othmann. 2021 (16)
4 A. Lafreniere. 2020 (1)
5 B. Schneider. 2020 (19)
6 K. Kakko. 2019 (2)
7 V. Kravtsov. 2018 (9)
8 K. Miller. 2018 (22)
9 N. Lundkvist. 2018 (28)
10 L. Andersson. 2017 (7)
11 F. Chytil. 2017 (21)
12 B. Skjei. 2012 (28)
13 J.T. Miller. 2011 (15)
14 D. McIlrath. 2010 (10)
15 C. Kreider. 2009 (19)
16 M. Del Zotto. 2008 (20)
17 Alexei Cherepanov. 2007 (17)
18 B. Sanguinetti 2006 (21)
19 M. Staal 2005 (12)
20 A. Montoya 2004 (6)
21 L. Korpikoski 2004 (19)
22 H. Jessiman. 2003 (12)
23 D. Blackburn. 2001 (10)
24 P. Brendl. 1999 (4)
25 J. Lundmark. 1999 (9)

Skjei and JT Miller they dumped before they took off. Fast is a nice player but come on. People are calling for K. Miller head because of how poorly he's played.

You say don't bring up Lias Anderson but when they drafted him everyone said they reached for him and he might not be a top line center but he is a character guy that will one day wear a letter for them and look how that turned out. It's not just that some guys are not working out. It is how it doesn't work out or they get sent away and turn it around.
Yes they have some hits but those seem to be the exceptions not the rule

...best post this year so far just for the Huge Speciman namedrop!!...

 

[Guttersniped]

This is a list of the last 25 first round picks by the Rangers. You can't tell me they do not have a drafting and development problem.
1 EJ Emery 2024 (30)
2 G. Perreault 2023 (23)
3 B. Othmann. 2021 (16)
4 A. Lafreniere. 2020 (1)
5 B. Schneider. 2020 (19)
6 K. Kakko. 2019 (2)
7 V. Kravtsov. 2018 (9)
8 K. Miller. 2018 (22)
9 N. Lundkvist. 2018 (28)
10 L. Andersson. 2017 (7)
11 F. Chytil. 2017 (21)
12 B. Skjei. 2012 (28)
13 J.T. Miller. 2011 (15)
14 D. McIlrath. 2010 (10)
15 C. Kreider. 2009 (19)
16 M. Del Zotto. 2008 (20)
17 Alexei Cherepanov. 2007 (17)
18 B. Sanguinetti 2006 (21)
19 M. Staal 2005 (12)
20 A. Montoya 2004 (6)
21 L. Korpikoski 2004 (19)
22 H. Jessiman. 2003 (12)
23 D. Blackburn. 2001 (10)
24 P. Brendl. 1999 (4)
25 J. Lundmark. 1999 (9)

Skjei and JT Miller they dumped before they took off. Fast is a nice player but come on. People are calling for K. Miller head because of how poorly he's played.

You say don't bring up Lias Anderson but when they drafted him everyone said they reached for him and he might not be a top line center but he is a character guy that will one day wear a letter for them and look how that turned out. It's not just that some guys are not working out. It is how it doesn't work out or they get sent away and turn it around.
Yes they have some hits but those seem to be the exceptions not the rule

Don’t bring up Lia’s Anderson? How about don’t bring up Neil Smith picks from the trash fire 1999 draft, where just about every 1st Rd pick not named Sedin was a bad pick.

Jessiman is always funny tho.

 

[Dfence033]

This is a list of the last 25 first round picks by the Rangers. You can't tell me they do not have a drafting and development problem.
1 EJ Emery 2024 (30)
2 G. Perreault 2023 (23)
3 B. Othmann. 2021 (16)
4 A. Lafreniere. 2020 (1)
5 B. Schneider. 2020 (19)
6 K. Kakko. 2019 (2)
7 V. Kravtsov. 2018 (9)
8 K. Miller. 2018 (22)
9 N. Lundkvist. 2018 (28)
10 L. Andersson. 2017 (7)
11 F. Chytil. 2017 (21)
12 B. Skjei. 2012 (28)
13 J.T. Miller. 2011 (15)
14 D. McIlrath. 2010 (10)
15 C. Kreider. 2009 (19)
16 M. Del Zotto. 2008 (20)
17 Alexei Cherepanov. 2007 (17)
18 B. Sanguinetti 2006 (21)
19 M. Staal 2005 (12)
20 A. Montoya 2004 (6)
21 L. Korpikoski 2004 (19)
22 H. Jessiman. 2003 (12)
23 D. Blackburn. 2001 (10)
24 P. Brendl. 1999 (4)
25 J. Lundmark. 1999 (9)

Skjei and JT Miller they dumped before they took off. Fast is a nice player but come on. People are calling for K. Miller head because of how poorly he's played.

You say don't bring up Lias Anderson but when they drafted him everyone said they reached for him and he might not be a top line center but he is a character guy that will one day wear a letter for them and look how that turned out. It's not just that some guys are not working out. It is how it doesn't work out or they get sent away and turn it around.
Yes they have some hits but those seem to be the exceptions not the rule

Perreault and Emery are too early to judge, but trending well. Laf is a regular at the NHL level and is playing well in a top-6 role, not typical 1st overall, but not a bust. Kakko we are covering in this thread. Othman and Schneider are either in the NHL already, or have been and are close.

K’Andre Miller and Nils Lundqvist are regulars on good NHL teams’ blue lines. Chytil has been an NHL regular center for years.

Anderson and Kravtsov were busts.

That’s every one of the 11 1st round picks they’ve made in the last 10 drafts.

Two too early to say.
One on the way, doing will in the AHL.
Five NHL regulars.
Three busts.

Average draft position: 16th overall.

Going back 20 drafts, there were 8 more first round picks, 2 were a busts, one died before making the NHL but was looking like a star, and an average draft position of 18th overall. Again, you are seeing what you hope to see, not what reality is. No team that averages drafting 17th overall for two decades is hitting on nearly 75% of their 1st round picks turning into NHL regulars. It’s a bad narrative unsupported by any real fact other than “LOLZ Rangers.”

 

[Dfence033]

Don’t bring up Lia’s Anderson? How about don’t bring up Neil Smith picks from the trash fire 1999 draft, where just about every 1st Rd pick not named Sedin was a bad pick.

Jessiman is always funny tho.

I don’t put a lot of stock in drafts that far back - certainly not as evidence of a “drafting and development cultural problem.” There have been 3 lockouts, hundreds of rule changes, the way hockey has been played at the NHL level is practically completely different, the way the game and prospects are scouted is miles better, and the Rangers have had 4 different GMs in that time frame. It’s just another way to bag on a team, because more recent history is much less kind to the narrative being pushed.

Yes, McIlrath, Anderson, and now Kakko look like particularly bad misses. Jessiman in 03 may have been viewed very differently with no lockout and teams playing a style favoring giants who could plod through obstruction rather than quicker players who could skate around it. It’s not like a 1st overall pick never playing an NHL game bad - he was #12 in that draft. While he was a bit of a “reach” on draft day, several of the prospects ranked above him went on to have very unremarkable careers. People using him in this instance try to make it sound like he was one of the biggest, most obvious draft busts of all time. He isn’t even the biggest Rangers draft bust in the last 25 years.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

...Huge Speciman memories are awesome...