Scurried recalled

[Little Psycho]

he hadnt even played a game and everyone was freaking the **** out. that is a knee-jerk reaction. sadly enough, its becoming kind of normal around here

We were "freaking out" because he sucks and Dean has made some questionable choices so I wouldn't have put it past him.

 

[Omni Owl]

he hadnt even played a game and everyone was freaking the **** out. that is a knee-jerk reaction. sadly enough, its becoming kind of normal around here

You're naive if you think Scuderi is going to be adequate back there.

 

[Model62]

Can't get my head around the "maximize the benefits of LTIR" thing.

Scuderi up boosts the club's cap hit while he's up by $950K/days left in the season. What does that have to do with any of the potential LTIR candidates?

Or... Maybe you can only claim/replace up to your actual Payroll peak during the season (and not the league-wide cap), and this one day boost resets that peak up a bit? Just a guess.

 

[lexlavender]

How does it do that?

The follow up question is who is going on LTIR and why--Quick, Gaborik, McNabb? Maximizing benefits for...trade?

I think McNabb was put on IR retroactively on the 30th. So that's Quick, Gaborik, and McNabb we have on the IR right now.

And I think the idea with maximizing the benefits is that the less cap space you have, the bigger the relief you can deduct with a player going on to IR.

EDIT: I looked it up, here's the formula for cap relief:

Amount team can exceed the cap = Cap hit of LTIR player - Amount of cap space available.

So yeah, the less cap space you have, the bigger your relief is.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think McNabb was put on IR retroactively on the 30th. So that's Quick, Gaborik, and McNabb we have on the IR right now.

And I think the idea with maximizing the benefits is that the less cap space you have, the bigger the relief you can deduct with a player going on to IR.

IR doesn't affect the cap though does it? I know LTIR allows you to exceed. My understanding is Scuderi pushes them close to the cap, so LTIRing someone allows them to go that much further over the cap...which suggests a move to me otherwise they wouldn't do it right?

 

[theMajor]

You're naive if you think Scuderi is going to be adequate back there.

he was a scratch in Ontario, the 'call up' never made sense to me from the start

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

Can't get my head around the "maximize the benefits of LTIR" thing.

Scuderi up boosts the club's cap hit while he's up by $950K/days left in the season. What does that have to do with any of the potential LTIR candidates?

Or... Maybe you can only claim/replace up to your actual Payroll peak during the season (and not the league-wide cap), and this one day boost resets that peak up a bit? Just a guess.

In simple, non-CBA terms, you can use the LTIR cap hit to go over the cap limit. The less cap space you have, the further over you can go.

 

[Trolfoli]

You guys are missing the real story here. This had nothing to do with LTIR. Lombardi was clearly feeling the pressure from HFBoards and reversed his plan to bring Scuderi back which Sutter had blackmailed him into.

My only question is what does Sutter have on Lombardi!

Edit: My guess is Luongo.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

In simple, non-CBA terms, you can use the LTIR cap hit to go over the cap limit. The less cap space you have, the further over you can go.

And Scuds pushed us right to the edge.

See, he's useful!

 

[lexlavender]

IR doesn't affect the cap though does it? I know LTIR allows you to exceed. My understanding is Scuderi pushes them close to the cap, so LTIRing someone allows them to go that much further over the cap...which suggests a move to me otherwise they wouldn't do it right?

I think it's just due diligence on Lombardi's part. If you can do it, why not always maximize your cap, even if you don't expect a trade to become available? It's just good accounting.

That being said, with our injury situation I'd find it hard to believe Lombardi isn't looking at any trade possibilities.

 

[BigKing]

Like I said in the one of the other threads that referenced the Scuderi call up: hold the pitchforks until Sutter actually plays him.

If they called up Gravel, he'd be sitting in favor of Greene most likely so what's the point?

Embrace the suck. This team could not afford major injuries and has already lost Quick, Gaborik and McNabb. Say what you want about McNabb but he's still eating minutes and is not a tire fire out there, at least not a complete tire fire. Toss in whatever is going on with Andreoff and it is pretty dire.

Even with McNabb, this team did not win a game in regulation during the month of October. People can reference the Ducks from last year and how badly they started out, but that team is much better than what the Kings are currently icing.

Jack Campbell is currently the back up goaltender. I mean, this team is a mess right now and winning the possession battle doesn't mean **** if you can't score and can't stop most "Grade A" scoring opportunities against.

The 2015 Kings were much better than this team and were an awesome advanced stats team. They missed the playoffs. The division is better and the Kings are worse. What am I missing here?

When the suck is fully realized come January, you will see your Gravels and whatnot for some NHL play in lower pressure situations. You may even see them earlier than that but I think they will try to keep giving those guys big minutes and leadership roles down in Ontario for as long as possible.

Also, when it comes to playing someone like Greene, it may not be bad to have him out there and maybe play his way into a deadline trade to a contender. I mean, if Scuderi can be traded at the deadline, so can Greene. Kings retain 50% or something for next year and free up money and a spot for another defenseman.

This is a development year. Team could scratch into the playoffs while also developing youth with a healthy roster but that took a huge hit when Gaborik went down and then Quick put the nail in the coffin. McNabb being out for a long time is the dirt being shoveled on it.

Look at the bright side: at least you don't have three extra tickets to sell to every home game. Can't even sell a pair tonight for $25 a piece so it's going to be extremely fun in January when they are 8 points out.

 

[KingsFan7824]

IR doesn't affect the cap though does it? I know LTIR allows you to exceed. My understanding is Scuderi pushes them close to the cap, so LTIRing someone allows them to go that much further over the cap...which suggests a move to me otherwise they wouldn't do it right?

Or there was just a day off in the schedule after McNabb goes on IR, opening up a roster spot, and Lombardi sees an opening that wouldn't be there otherwise to push the cap number up for a day on paper, without actually doing anything, just in case they have to put someone on LTIR at some point in the future?

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

And Scuds pushed us right to the edge.

See, he's useful!

They did this with someone last year too I think. Difference was that there was a D spot open and they brought up Scuderi. Probably why we overreacted.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Like I said in the one of the other threads that referenced the Scuderi call up: hold the pitchforks until Sutter actually plays him.

To be fair, you didn't have the cap maximization part figured out either. You were closer to the truth, but it wasn't about some carrots, a potato, some broth, and gettin' a stew goin' down in Ontario.

 

[Asheru]

he hadnt even played a game and everyone was freaking the **** out. that is a knee-jerk reaction.

What they did with this recall was highly unusual, and it wasn't explained (which they could have just gone ahead and done). But it's on fans for not figuring this out?

Of course people are going to react to a recall announcement. The deeper problem is, skepticism over how they handle veterans was not based on this one move. It has been building the last two years.

 

[BigKing]

To be fair, you didn't have the cap maximization part figured out either. You were closer to the truth, but it wasn't about some carrots, a potato, some broth, and gettin' a stew goin' down in Ontario.

I don't care about the cap maximization deal...I just believe they would like these guys to marinate down there. It's an opinion colored with a bit of what I hope they do.

The only part I felt was a fact, if you can call it that, is to chill out until Scuderi is actually inserted into the lineup. More a suggestion than anything but I understand the freak out since nobody trusts Sutter not to insert a veteran whenever possible.

It's easier to not immediately freak out about a Scuderi call up when you have zero expectations for the rest of the season. Just have to tap into what it was like being a Kings fan for basically every year except 2012-14.

 

[goosh]

You've got to be ****ing kidding me

Good thing I didn't overreact!

But I do hope the Kings recall Gravel to play over Greene.

 

[theMajor]

What they did with this recall was highly unusual, and it wasn't explained (which they could have just gone ahead and done). But it's on fans for not figuring this out?

Of course people are going to react to a recall announcement. The deeper problem is, skepticism over how they handle veterans was not based on this one move. It has been building the last two years.

I agree it was a weird move, but to default to "Dean is done" and "Sutter doesnt know what he's doing" instead of "hey, this is a weird move. lets see what happens" is entirely knee-jerky. some posters would rather churn out some ignorant keyboard diarrhea than wait one day to know what is actually going on. one poster said that they'd wait to bring out the pitchforks until Sutter throws Scuderi in the lineup, THAT is a smart person. ya'll need to chill

 

[KingsFan7824]

I don't care about the cap maximization deal...

Well that seems to have been the entire reason for the move.

I just believe they would like these guys to marinate down there. It's an opinion colored with a bit of what I hope they do.

There's no question that they do. Someone will come up though, because they're not going to go with just 6 defensemen, especially when Greene had already found himself as a healthy scratch before McNabb went down.

The only part I felt was a fact, if you can call it that, is to chill out until Scuderi is actually inserted into the lineup. More a suggestion than anything but I understand the freak out since nobody trusts Sutter not to insert a veteran whenever possible.

I'm not even against Sutter playing veterans. Without thinking/knowing about the LTIR thing, it seemed like an odd move, even for Lombardi, to bring up a guy that they seem to have basically told to go home because they don't want/need him anywhere. Scuderi hasn't even shown up in Ontario as far as I know. Maybe for a practice? I don't know.

It's easier to not immediately freak out about a Scuderi call up when you have zero expectations for the rest of the season. Just have to tap into what it was like being a Kings fan for basically every year except 2012-14.

More like before 2009. After they got Williams, and signed Scuderi, and traded for Smyth, they were upping the expectations. They were young, building, and had cap space. It's totally different now. The core of the Cup teams is still an active(unless they're hurt) and important part of this team. I can't say my expectations are as high as in recent years, but it's not the same as 06-07 to 08-09 either.

 

[Model62]

In simple, non-CBA terms, you can use the LTIR cap hit to go over the cap limit. The less cap space you have, the further over you can go.

Ahh, that makes sense. Thanks!

Found more details here, for anybody interested. (Basically, the formula is: [LTIR player cap number]-[salary cap room] = [amount the club can go over the cap].)

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Or there was just a day off in the schedule after McNabb goes on IR, opening up a roster spot, and Lombardi sees an opening that wouldn't be there otherwise to push the cap number up for a day on paper, without actually doing anything, just in case they have to put someone on LTIR at some point in the future?

But why would you want to be that close to the cap if you're not LTIRing someone? We need all the cap space we can get otherwise. Or am I reading what you wrote wrong

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The 2015 Kings were much better than this team and were an awesome advanced stats team. They missed the playoffs. The division is better and the Kings are worse. What am I missing here?

You're missing that there ARE anomalies, like the Colorado Avalanche and the Leafs making the playoffs some years despite being terrible on paper (Avs carried by goaltending, Leafs...I forget). You're missing that in 2015 the Flames were one of those anomalies, and that we still finished 2015 with the literal exact same record that won a Cup in 2012.

I'm betting against our team's performance vs. results being an anomaly and expect better things to happen, though those injuries sure cloud things.

Our PDO is 96.71% right now.

The worst PDO teams over each of the last five years:
2016 Leafs, 98.29%
2015 Canes 97.11%
2014 Sabres 98.17
2013 lockout shortened season found FLorida near 96
2012 NYI 97.86%
2011 Sens 97.44

So yes, there's significant reason to believe that the Kings aren't the worst shooting, worst goaltending team since god knows when and certainly not by a full % or more. And that's discounting that each one of those teams was legitimately terrible and not remotely close to dictating play like we are.

Please note that I"m not saying there's no reason to worry, only that this isn't some bottom-of-the-barrel lottery team.

 

[BigKing]

Cap voodoo or not, the point is he isn't playing so I don't care why they did it. I didn't believe he would see the ice and he isn't.

As for calling someone up, they don't really have to do so since they are home all week. Even then, wouldn't be surprised if Trotman got the call to sit in the press box. It should be Gravel but you never know.

After the 2012-14 run, something like 2009 or whatever might as well be 2007. I'm prepared for 2007 because I'm preparing for the worst. If they put up a 2009 record, then okay then.

I appreciate the eternal optimists. I do agree that anything could happen. I've also attended so many games during so many horrible seasons that I have a pretty good idea what they look and feel like. This team still has a core that has been through a lot together so that is more than what you can say for the horrible 2000 teams so I don't expect it to be that bad; however, it's going to feel that bad since we all know what it feels like to cheer on championship winning teams as opposed to missing the playoffs for seven straight seasons.

 

[KingsFan7824]

But why would you want to be that close to the cap if you're not LTIRing someone? We need all the cap space we can get otherwise. Or am I reading what you wrote wrong

I'm not a lawyer, but Lombardi did it for a reason. There has to be some kind of cap advantage to doing it, or else they wouldn't have done it. It was literally a paper move for less than a day.

I think they did something similar with Greene last year. I think they kept Greene off of LTIR for like an extra week or something, until he had surgery, and then they did it. It may have helped in allowing them to do the Lecavalier trade later, or something. Maybe Forbort was involved somehow. Wasn't he called up a couple times, but didn't play?

 

[tsanuri]

But why would you want to be that close to the cap if you're not LTIRing someone? We need all the cap space we can get otherwise. Or am I reading what you wrote wrong

Cap friendly is speculating Quick has been moved to LTIR just that there is no announcement yet.