Scott Wheeler mid season ranking

[PatrickMcC]

Scott Wheeler has published his midseason ranking (there is a paywall). Here is the top 15:

1. Macklin Celebrini
2. Artyom Levshunov
3. Cole Eiserman
4. Ivan Demidov
5. Anton Silayev
6. Zayne Parekh
7. Zeev Buium
8. Sam Dickinson
9. Berkly Catton
10. Konsta Helenius
11. Cayden Lindstrom
12. Carter Yakemchuk
13. Michael Brandsegg-Nygard
14. Liam Greentree
15. Trevor Connelly

https://theathletic.com/5212603/2024/01/29/nhl-draft-2024-rankings-midseason-wheeler/

Click to read more...

 

[Peasy]

Iginla 21 lol.

Certainly a list.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I honestly don't know much about the draft group this year, but Scott has a pretty lengthy history of undervaluing defensive ability.

I don't know if it's just what he prefers, or if he's awful at evaluating talent beyond stat watching.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I honestly don't know much about the draft group this year, but Scott has a pretty lengthy history of undervaluing defensive ability.

I don't know if it's just what he prefers, or if he's awful at evaluating talent beyond stat watching.

He's a stat watcher.. his rankings have very clear biases and very clear holes.

Lindstrom at 11 is hilarious.. he simply can't understand that size and athletic ability is part of an evaluation and projection.

I clicked on his list preparing to see what I saw.. and his write-ups are worse.. scouts tell me this but he scores points so I like him.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

He's a stat watcher.. his rankings have very clear biases and very clear holes.

Lindstrom at 11 is hilarious.. he simply can't understand that size and athletic ability is part of an evaluation and projection.

I clicked on his list preparing to see what I saw.. and his write-ups are worse.. scouts tell me this but he scores points so I like him.

It's been awhile so I don't recall all the egregious takes he's had, but I first realized it when he was shitting on Seider in prospect rankings even after his COVID SHL season.

I think he had him #22 on his list in late 2020. Then within a month into the SHL season says "I was wrong about Seider", and turned around in 2021 to still rank him outside the top 10.

 

[Oak]

I honestly don't know much about the draft group this year, but Scott has a pretty lengthy history of undervaluing defensive ability.

I don't know if it's just what he prefers, or if he's awful at evaluating talent beyond stat watching.

Most people have no clue how to evaluate a hockey player beyond stats unfortunately.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Wheeler's Top 25 drafted prospects from October of 2020:

1. Alexis Lafreniere
2. Quinton Byfield
3. Marco Rossi
4. Cole Perfetti
5. Lucas Raymond
6. Alexander Holtz
7. Tim Stutzle
8. Dylan Cozens
9. Trevor Zegras
10. Cole Caufield
11. Alex Newhook
12. Jamie Drysdale
13. Kirill Kaprizov
14. Bowen Byram
15. Alex Turcotte
16. Anton Lundell
17. Arthur Kaliyev
18. Peyton Krebs
19. Nick Robertson
20. Gabe Vilardi
21. Evan Bouchard
22. Moritz Seider
23. Matt Boldy
24. Victor Soderstrom
25. Nils Lundkvist

Other notable flubs:

32. Ryan Merkley (If you need evidence that Wheeler's a stat watcher. Everybody knew Merkley was a black hole defensively)
45. Seth Jarvis
46. Josh Norris
49. Jake Sanderson

Yes. He ranked Ryan Merkley 10 spots below Seider and 17 spots above Sanderson.

 

[TLEH]

You couldn't pay me to draft Parekh at 6.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Wheeler's Top 25 Drafted Prospects - August 2021:

1. Quinton Byfield
2. Cole Caufield
3. Owen Power
4. Trevor Zegras
5. Cole Perfetti
6. Kent Johnson
7. Brandt Clarke
8. Matty Beniers
9. Lucas Raymond
10. William Eklund
11. Moritz Seider (This was his "promotion" after Wheeler said he was wrong about Seider lol)
12. Alex Newhook
13. Matt Boldy
14. Marco Rossi
15. Bowen Byram
16. Dylan Guenther
17. Jamie Drysdale
18. Alexander Holtz
19. Luke Hughes
20. Anton Lundell
21. Mason McTavish
22. Chaz Lucius
23. Cole Sillinger
24. Simon Edvinsson
25. Arthur Kaliyev

Other notable picks:

27. Jake Sanderson (I suppose that's an improvement from #49)
36. Seth Jarvis (See comment on Sanderson)

 

[Castle8130]

Wheeler's Top 25 Drafted Prospects - August 2021:

1. Quinton Byfield
2. Cole Caufield
3. Owen Power
4. Trevor Zegras
5. Cole Perfetti
6. Kent Johnson
7. Brandt Clarke
8. Matty Beniers
9. Lucas Raymond
10. William Eklund
11. Moritz Seider (This was his "promotion" after Wheeler said he was wrong about Seider lol)
12. Alex Newhook
13. Matt Boldy
14. Marco Rossi
15. Bowen Byram
16. Dylan Guenther
17. Jamie Drysdale
18. Alexander Holtz
19. Luke Hughes
20. Anton Lundell
21. Mason McTavish
22. Chaz Lucius
23. Cole Sillinger
24. Simon Edvinsson
25. Arthur Kaliyev

Other notable picks:

27. Jake Sanderson (I suppose that's an improvement from #49)
36. Seth Jarvis (See comment on Sanderson)

He is not a great talent evaluator

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

He is not a great talent evaluator

My pointing out his inability to evaluate defense is what led to the demise of my comment ability on The Athletic lol.

Turns out if you point that out he gets mad, and then when you bring up actual examples of his prior flubs ranking defenders and two-way forwards, he goes into a fit of rage.

 

[Czechboy]

Any Czechs anywhere?

 

[HuGort]

Scott Wheeler has published his midseason ranking (there is a paywall). Here is the top 15:

1. Macklin Celebrini
2. Artyom Levshunov
3. Cole Eiserman
4. Ivan Demidov
5. Anton Silayev
6. Zayne Parekh
7. Zeev Buium
8. Sam Dickinson
9. Berkly Catton
10. Konsta Helenius
11. Cayden Lindstrom
12. Carter Yakemchuk
13. Michael Brandsegg-Nygard
14. Liam Greentree
15. Trevor Connelly

https://theathletic.com/5212603/2024/01/29/nhl-draft-2024-rankings-midseason-wheeler/

A lot of talent available around 7. When Canadiens drafting. Dickinson, Catton, Lindstrom, all good players

 

[Castle8130]

My pointing out his inability to evaluate defense is what led to the demise of my comment ability on The Athletic lol.

Turns out if you point that out he gets mad, and then when you bring up actual examples of his prior flubs ranking defenders and two-way forwards, he goes into a fit of rage.

I don't blame his frustrations. If you make a living creating these lists and looking at prospects, it would be frustrating having others point out your biggest misses. Even though he misses a lot, he does put in a great deal of effort informing the public about players. The evaluations just have poor conclusions.

 

[chaz4hockey]

Wheeler's Top 25 drafted prospects from October of 2020:

1. Alexis Lafreniere
2. Quinton Byfield
3. Marco Rossi
4. Cole Perfetti
5. Lucas Raymond
6. Alexander Holtz
7. Tim Stutzle
8. Dylan Cozens
9. Trevor Zegras
10. Cole Caufield
11. Alex Newhook
12. Jamie Drysdale
13. Kirill Kaprizov
14. Bowen Byram
15. Alex Turcotte
16. Anton Lundell
17. Arthur Kaliyev
18. Peyton Krebs
19. Nick Robertson
20. Gabe Vilardi
21. Evan Bouchard
22. Moritz Seider
23. Matt Boldy
24. Victor Soderstrom
25. Nils Lundkvist

Other notable flubs:

32. Ryan Merkley (If you need evidence that Wheeler's a stat watcher. Everybody knew Merkley was a black hole defensively)
45. Seth Jarvis
46. Josh Norris
49. Jake Sanderson

Yes. He ranked Ryan Merkley 10 spots below Seider and 17 spots above Sanderson.

Jarvis at 45 is arguably the biggest miss.

He has become a very good two way player and RBA trusts him on penalty kills and PP (re: PK is very telling since Rod highly values PK)

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Jarvis at 45 is arguably the biggest miss.

He has become a very good two way player and RBA trusts him on penalty kills and PP (re: PK is very telling since Rod highly values PK)

Seider/Boldy/Jarvis/Sanderson are all pretty rancid rankings for a list from late 2020.

I honestly didn't follow Jarvis too much, but I remember thinking highly of Boldy at the draft, and Sanderson was a Top 5 pick whose only really eyebrow raising question at the time was "Should they have taken him over Drysdale?" Seider was considered a reach in 2019, but his 19-20 AHL season quickly put people in check, to the point that even Button did a quick 180 on his "Carlo 2.0" comparison.

That's a #1D, (Seider) Top pairing D trending toward #1D, (Sanderson) Top 6 all-situations forward, (Jarvis) and another Top 6 forward (Boldy) all flubbed on in one ranking.

I don't blame his frustrations. If you make a living creating these lists and looking at prospects, it would be frustrating having others point out your biggest misses. Even though he misses a lot, he does put in a great deal of effort informing the public about players. The evaluations just have poor conclusions.

It's not really about having periodic misses. Everybody misses. It's the ongoing theme that he appears to be a stat-watcher and can't evaluate defensive ability.

 

[austin63867]

I would think Wheeler hates defense with Dickinson at 8 and Emery at 48 but then he puts Elick at 34 and Danford at 54.

 

[Frk It]

I would think Wheeler hates defense with Dickinson at 8 and Emery at 48 but then he puts Elick at 34 and Danford at 54.

McKenzie just had Dickinson at #7 on his ranking with feedback from NHL scouts, how is having him at #8 "hating"?

I like Dickinson, but I think it is fair to question the offense. He is under a PPG on the highest scoring team in the OHL. Offensive contributions from your defenseman matter a lot in today's NHL.

 

[austin63867]

McKenzie just had Dickinson at #7 on his ranking with feedback from NHL scouts, how is having him at #8 "hating"?

I like Dickinson, but I think it is fair to question the offense. He is under a PPG on the highest scoring team in the OHL. Offensive contributions from your defenseman matter a lot in today's NHL.

Hard to be an offensive talent when you're battling for points alongside guys like Cowan/Barkey/Halttunen/Bonk.

His offensive games has grown a good bit from the start of the season to now besides point totals. He's shown the ability to carry the puck and be a set-up playmaker more often, and has become more comfortable with taking shot attempts. Bonk had a major offensive growth this season as a DY+1, no reason to think Dickinson can't do the same.

 

[57special]

I don't think the rankings are at all crazy, or out of line. Parekh and Buium are a tad higher, Lindstrom lower. It's not like others on here, many of whom watch the WHL a lot, and are anything but stat watchers, haven't questioned Lindstrom a bit, and have said that they'd take Catton over him.

It's also not like Dickinson is super low...he's at #8.

Seems like some on here are taking this opportunity to criticize Wheeler for rankings from 3-4 years ago.

I find it interesting that almost all of the recent rankings have Eiserman still pretty high, even though they criticize the one dimensional nature of his talent.

Man, a lot of late birthdays. Didn't realize Eiserman was so young.

Didn't realize that Connelly had off ice concerns. Swaztika's, racial slurs? Oof. Don't see teams lining up to take that on.

 

[SantosHalper]

Didn't realize that Connelly had off ice concerns. Swaztika's, racial slurs? Oof. Don't see teams lining up to take that on.

Blackhawks has no problem hiring and protecting questionable characters.

 

[Zarzh]

Hard to be an offensive talent when you're battling for points alongside guys like Cowan/Barkey/Halttunen/Bonk.

His offensive games has grown a good bit from the start of the season to now besides point totals. He's shown the ability to carry the puck and be a set-up playmaker more often, and has become more comfortable with taking shot attempts. Bonk had a major offensive growth this season as a DY+1, no reason to think Dickinson can't do the same.

Sure, but like Lindstrom the idea is a risk, hence him falling in the rankings.

I do think Buium/Parehk are too high and he's just hoping one works out, but I can't really blame his methodology too much, maybe give some bias to players drafted in the top 6 like Sanderson/Seider but you'll still beat the field doing what he does.

 

[Frk It]

Hard to be an offensive talent when you're battling for points alongside guys like Cowan/Barkey/Halttunen/Bonk.

His offensive games has grown a good bit from the start of the season to now besides point totals. He's shown the ability to carry the puck and be a set-up playmaker more often, and has become more comfortable with taking shot attempts. Bonk had a major offensive growth this season as a DY+1, no reason to think Dickinson can't do the same.

Where do you think he deserves to be ranked?

 

[austin63867]

Where do you think he deserves to be ranked?

3-5 as of right now. Maybe 6th at the lowest.

 

[bossram]

It's not really about having periodic misses. Everybody misses. It's the ongoing theme that he appears to be a stat-watcher and can't evaluate defensive ability.

He's really not a stat watcher. If you consistently read Wheeler's stuff you find that his write-ups, descriptions, and level of detail are far more in-depth than most other draft content, including his co-worker at the Athletic, Pronman.

The issue is that he just over/under values certain things, and his overall conclusion on a player becomes way off.

I'd say he identifies specific skills/attributes very effectively. But his instincts on ranking players can be very off. Pronman is almost the complete opposite now. His scouting reports speak in complete platitudes and hockey-isms, but somehow he innately has a better feel for the complete evaluation of a prospect.