Post-Game Talk: SCF = Shitty Cup Final

[WaitingForUser]

Although I think it was a major (only by the NHL's idiotic standard that dictates that its an auto major is someone is "injured"), I think its a f***ing disgrace that they bothered to review it for all of about 10 seconds. It's blatantly negligent, and I can't help but wonder if it's vindictive in some way as well. The only possible mindset an official could have reviewing a play for that short of time is to say "knew it, f*** you, confirmed."

I've probably watched over 1,000 NHL games since review came in, and in that time I can only remember two instances where the review was under 20/30 seconds - last night and the goalie interference challenge on the tying goal in Game 5 against the Ducks in 2017.

Must just be a crazy coincidence that it has only occurred against one team and both times in the playoffs.

Yeah that “review” was absolutely laughable. I’m really starting to believe that the NHL is not actually incompetent but is truly influencing games against Canadian teams as others have often stated. How can anyone look at games 1 and 2 and believe that they were playing on an even playing field?

 

[Fishy McScales]

Here's the play, now shut the f*** up. How can you guys sit here commenting on plays you can't even remember? Goes for a lot of you.

We're talking about the play at 6:37 which is a much cleaner look for Bennett.

 

[Broberg Speed]

I'll say it again. The official picked Brown on the Panther's first goal of the game, Mikkola on the drop pass from Lundell. If the pick wasn't made Brown intercepts, blocks or clears that pass out of danger.

 

[cruisecity]

We're talking about the play at 6:37 which is a much cleaner look for Bennett.

That's nowhere near a 'way cleaner look' -- he gets a clean one timer off in the slot with nobody around him in prime scoring location on the first, while PKing. He can't even get a shot off on the second.

While both are horrendous failures by our club, let it be noted that what I was referencing was McDavid, Draisaitl, Bouchard, et al completely asleep watching Bennett walk into the slot uncontested for his best scoring chance of the game.

Both plays show the lack of attention to detail. This club has never been given strict assignment or essentially benched if you don't type of coaching in the way Cup champions like Vegas do, or like Florida does. Night and day.

 

[Fishy McScales]

That's nowhere near a 'way cleaner look' -- he gets a clean one timer off in the slot with nobody around him in prime scoring location on the first, while PKing. He can't even get a shot off on the second.

While both are horrendous failures by our club, let it be noted that what I was referencing was McDavid, Draisaitl, Bouchard, et al completely asleep watching Bennett walk into the slot uncontested for his best scoring chance of the game.

Both plays show the lack of attention to detail. This club has never been given strict assignment or essentially benched if you don't type of coaching in the way Cup champions like Vegas do, or like Florida does. Night and day.

You don't think it's interesting that more people thought the PK chance was more memorable?

Just because it turned out we were talking about different plays there's no need to tell people to shut the f*** up etc when clearly there was a play that you didn't remember too.

 

[cruisecity]

You don't think it's interesting that more people thought the PK chance was more memorable?

Just because it turned out we were talking about different plays there's no need to tell people to shut the f*** up etc when clearly there was a play that you didn't remember too.

I'll say it's a sad state of affairs when our club completely loses the open man multiple times in the course of the game. Could've easily been a blowout.

Losing him on the PP was a far more egregious failure. Doesn't matter to me what two extra people chose to like.

 

[Fishy McScales]

I'll say it's a sad state of affairs when our club completely loses the open man multiple times in the course of the game. Could've easily been a blowout.

Losing him on the PP was a far more egregious failure. Doesn't matter to me what two extra people chose to like.

Really? Cause it seemed like it mattered quite a lot.

 

[guymez]

Honestly the only players I would flag for that are 71, 37 and 25. I perceive more or less everyone else playing up to their abilities, or even elevating beyond their abilities. Kane has been shit too, but I'll give him a break due to injury (thought he was really good through the first two rounds).

You can get away winning in the regular season dragging around dead weight here or there every night, but when the games are this close, this high pace, and this detailed, the passengers that you can normally get away with having on your roster end up being the ones that cost you series.

Yeah...I agree with you completely.
I reworded (edited) my post to more accurately reflect my thinking.

 

[harpoon]

That 3rd goal is on Drai. Just a dumb as rocks selfish penalty to take in the 3rd of a pivotal moment in the series.

Pretty sure he took some costly penalties in the playoffs last year too. He’s a guy that can be got to if you play him hard enough.

 

[foshizzle]

Listen again to their interview. Lots of positives for the goaltender and talk of how things like reading the play will improve with experience. Skinner is not an athletic goaltender. The book has always been about getting him moving laterally. The interview also cites the difference between Bob's natural athleticism and Skinner's (and others who don't have it) in terms of the former's wide butterfly stance and ability to push strongly laterally. Skinner should adjust as suggested to a more vertical butterfly to enable strong push. Skinner's tracking is a developmental need and as Fuhr reinforced something that grows with experience. Realizing you have more time than you think to look and survey. Talked also about how he benefited as a small goalie of his learned experience practicing against the best player and team in history. Of course he's too modest to acknowledge he was likely the most athletic goaltender of his generation with cat-like reflexes and an innate mental toughness and resiliency to never give up that final goal. Gretzky considers him the best money goalie in NHL history for a reason. Add that he was an elite pedigree goaltender when drafted.

Of course Skinner should tap into all available additional goaltending support just like the goaltender coach team work with the bio mechanics coaching collaboration with end of (hockey) life Mike Smith. That's the reality of goaltending - there are multiple specialists used for a unique position in sports that's technical and high mental strength and resiliency. All of this work is done in facilitation with the team's goaltender coach and an integrated approach to build up a mid-level prospect whose had to deliver deep water survival to backstop a Cup competition team.

There's a decade of coaching and trust built between coach and the only Oilers prospect in a decade to elevate into an NHL starting goaltender. Skinner isn't a finished product like the other guy in net but rather building his game and stacking wins behind a team fighting for a Cup. Lots of positives to consider including huge saves last night which weren't talked about in a short interview.

I'm not sure if you even read what I posted. I said all these things that you did. I stated my opinion that I believe he can become a

Listen again to their interview. Lots of positives for the goaltender and talk of how things like reading the play will improve with experience. Skinner is not an athletic goaltender. The book has always been about getting him moving laterally. The interview also cites the difference between Bob's natural athleticism and Skinner's (and others who don't have it) in terms of the former's wide butterfly stance and ability to push strongly laterally. Skinner should adjust as suggested to a more vertical butterfly to enable strong push. Skinner's tracking is a developmental need and as Fuhr reinforced something that grows with experience. Realizing you have more time than you think to look and survey. Talked also about how he benefited as a small goalie of his learned experience practicing against the best player and team in history. Of course he's too modest to acknowledge he was likely the most athletic goaltender of his generation with cat-like reflexes and an innate mental toughness and resiliency to never give up that final goal. Gretzky considers him the best money goalie in NHL history for a reason. Add that he was an elite pedigree goaltender when drafted.

Of course Skinner should tap into all available additional goaltending support just like the goaltender coach team work with the bio mechanics coaching collaboration with end of (hockey) life Mike Smith. That's the reality of goaltending - there are multiple specialists used for a unique position in sports that's technical and high mental strength and resiliency. All of this work is done in facilitation with the team's goaltender coach and an integrated approach to build up a mid-level prospect whose had to deliver deep water survival to backstop a Cup competition team.

There's a decade of coaching and trust built between coach and the only Oilers prospect in a decade to elevate into an NHL starting goaltender. Skinner isn't a finished product like the other guy in net but rather building his game and stacking wins behind a team fighting for a Cup. Lots of positives to consider including huge saves last night which weren't talked about in a short interview.

Im not sure you read what I wrote. I said they didn’t blame Skinner for the goals, but they listed some technical errors he made. Agreed? I also said I’ve been a critic of Skinner but that interview changed my perspective- agreed?

I also said- in my opinion, he can go from good goaltender to great goaltender with better coaching. Skinner was in the ECHL and forgotten about. It was Sylvain Rodrigue that built him back up. I also believe that “athleticism” isn’t inherited. Let me rephrase that- it isn’t completely inherited. Those that don’t have it have to train harder for it- but can achieve it. Like I said, I think Skinner with a different coach could excel.

You have an higher opinion of Schwartz than I do. I still have to see him produce a quality netminder.

 

[WaitingForUser]

Pretty sure he took some costly penalties in the playoffs last year too. He’s a guy that can be got to if you play him hard enough.

I do t think it’s so much the playing him hard that gets to him it’s the abuse and lack of accountability from the officials that do it. Leon will fight through most things but constant slashes hooks and attempted head shots will set him off. And rightfully so

 

[UHHHH SON]

I do t think it’s so much the playing him hard that gets to him it’s the abuse and lack of accountability from the officials that do it. Leon will fight through most things but constant slashes hooks and attempted head shots will set him off. And rightfully so

Completely agree. Our team has seen this before and we can’t handle it. How can you though when standards are constantly shifting.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I'm not sure if you even read what I posted. I said all these things that you did. I stated my opinion that I believe he can become a

Im not sure you read what I wrote. I said they didn’t blame Skinner for the goals, but they listed some technical errors he made. Agreed? I also said I’ve been a critic of Skinner but that interview changed my perspective- agreed?

I also said- in my opinion, he can go from good goaltender to great goaltender with better coaching. Skinner was in the ECHL and forgotten about. It was Sylvain Rodrigue that built him back up. I also believe that “athleticism” isn’t inherited. Let me rephrase that- it isn’t completely inherited. Those that don’t have it have to train harder for it- but can achieve it. Like I said, I think Skinner with a different coach could excel.

You have an higher opinion of Schwartz than I do. I still have to see him produce a quality netminder.

Because Schwartz has shown success in developing a pipeline of prospects into NHL goaltenders. One has to look at evidence and holistically to make a fair conclusion. Broissoit, Jary, Hart, and Skinner with whom he's worked since the guy was like 12 years old. You need something to work with and Schwartz has done that with developmental phase prospects.

You've quibbled before about Broissoit yet here's his NHL results from a recent TSN column suggesting the Leafs are looking at him:

"Brossoit went 15-5-2 this season with the Winnipeg Jets, finishing the campaign with a .927 save percentage and a 2.00 goals-against average. He returned to Winnipeg in free agency last summer on a one-year, $1.75 million contract after spending the previous two seasons with the Vegas Golden Knights.

The 31-year-old netminder has a career record of 64-46-13 over 141 NHL games with the Edmonton Oilers, Jets and Golden Knights."

Skinner was hardly a 'forgotten' prospect when he was sent to the ECHL to ensure he could get starts while onboarding later, behind other system prospect goaltenders. It's a normal approach by NHL organizations for a position that has 2 per team. Skinner with Rodrigue who works under and in coordination with Schwartz's direction have together built up the goaltender. It takes a team to nurture and support goaltender development with the complexity of the position being technical, physical, and hugely mental strength and resiliency. One can't simply divorce Schwartz from leading the organization's function and most definitely not from the player he's worked with since pre-puberty. Defies logic and reality.

It's not that my opinion of Schwartz is so high. It's the blatant disregard of facts and reality to have an honest discussion of a coaching role that we don't and cannot see the majority of the work involved. Results with Skinner and young, development age NHL goaltenders is strong and compelling evidence including watching Skinner's second playoff being a key component of a Cup Final run.

There is inherent athleticism which is critical to success of modern era goaltending. Bob and other elite tenders have incredible flexibility and dexterity which they use to make saves most other goaltenders cannot. Their reflexes are finely tuned with hand eye coordination. Then add the mental strength on top of athletic ability.

The takeaway from Fuhr's commentary is that some technical refinement can be made (note, that's one area of a 7 point equal weighted inventory of Ian Clarke's regarding elite goaltenders) and that Skinner will likely continue to grow his game like tracking and reading plays through experience. Skinner has shown remarkable growth in two short years after his development path of 2-3 year apprenticeship got upended immediately by the organizational failure to bet on Jack Campbell as the missing piece as Cup goaltender for a contender. The guy that saved this organization from a prospective calamity has been trained and coached by Schwartz since the age of twelve.

 

[Hellcat]

I wouldn't be too critical of the Oil, what Fla is doing in this series, looks so familiar , they look like a clone every game, they rinse wash repeat every game, what they are doing against the Oil they did it against everyone else. They did it against the Rangers, they did it against the Bruins, they did it against Tampa. They take away time and space better than any team in the League, if there is one thing they need to do more is make Bob more uncomfortable, he looks way too comfortable, bump and run boys. bump and run, he has a history of being a bit of a hot head when he gets bumped, he's a little flaky between the ears, there is no reason why you cant Oooopsie bump him a few times. Maybe it's not much comfort but the Oil look better against Fla than any other team this year, the margins are so small, a few small tweaks and you guys are back in the series.

 

[Stoneman89]

The Florida team all talk about how when Maurice came in he forced them to change how they play. Barkov interview about how he had to stop looking at stats because of how his plummeted under Maurice. In exchange, every single one of their forwards backchecks harder than they do up the ice. It's exactly like Las Vegas. Full commitment from every player to work as hard as possible. Hard ass coaches, hard ass players. No exceptions.

Contrast to our team. Vancouver plays a similar game with like one passenger in Pettersson who was ripped to shreds. Vancouver has taken the Vegas/Florida style of play but they have less skill. Similar success.

We are finally put up against a team like Vegas in these playoffs and it shows again. Outworked by a deep group who are all committed to playing the right way. Watch what happens when Florida hangs onto pucks up the ice, all of our players float towards them. Night and day difference.

This will be a learning experience for the group, and Knoblauch better make sure next season every single f***ing player in this group learns to play defensively to the standard Florida is. No exceptions. Totally outclassed.

Two games in and I thought we outplayed the “hard working" Florida team badly in the first game, so people need to stop inferring that no one else plays just as hard.

 

[Stoneman89]

"We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in South Florida, we shall fight in the corners and in front of the net, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the neutral zone, we shall defend our goal, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight after the whistles , we shall fight in the faceoff circles , we shall fight in the social media and in the streets, we shall fight in the bars and taverns; we shall never surrender!"

I have taken the liberty of stealing from one of the most famous speeches in history to inspire the team and it's fanbase.

 

[WaitingForUser]

Completely agree. Our team has seen this before and we can’t handle it. How can you though when standards are constantly shifting.

You can’t do anything about it. It’s only gotten worse and worse since the NHL started with gambling shit too

 

[CupofOil]

The Quid pro quo message was clear. If aholes like Bennett think they can run our guys with impunity we can do shit too. Whether you agree with the tactic or not the game was essentially over, The Oilers were getting nothing, and even goalie pulled for over 5mins they were getting nothing. A check is going to do nothing against Barkov, he's built like a tank. Florida have Bennett punching guys in the face and Ekblad performing choke holds. They send this tape to league office. Hypocrites,

Drai has also been hard finishing hits on Bennett and other and in game one instance causing a Bennett retaliation.

The game wasn't over, it was 2-1 with plenty of time left when he committed the penalty. The Oilers weren't getting much but that 2 shorthanded minutes that bled time off the clock. Drai is built like a tank too, he didn't need to elbow the guy in the grill to send a message. He's lucky that he didn't get suspended because you never know with the NHL when it comes to plays like this.

In any event, I think you'll agree that he needs to be a lot better next game. If he doesn't that could not only be the end of the season but maybe the end of his Oiler career and what a sad way to go out that would be.

 

[K1984]

Was I the only one that wasn't actually all that upset when we were on the PK because it meant that we might actually have a faint hope of having a scoring chance open up off the rush?

It truly almost got to the point last night that our PK gave us the best chance of scoring a goal.

 

[McDNicks17]

I really think the move is putting our best wingers with Drai rather than Connor.

McLeod McDavid Brown
RNH Drai Hyman
Holloway Henrique Perry
Janmark Carrick Ryan

Swap Janmark and McLeod and then never play the 4th line.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The game wasn't over, it was 2-1 with plenty of time left when he committed the penalty. The Oilers weren't getting much but that 2 shorthanded minutes that bled time off the clock. Drai is built like a tank too, he didn't need to elbow the guy in the grill to send a message. He's lucky that he didn't get suspended because you never know with the NHL when it comes to plays like this.

In any event, I think you'll agree that he needs to be a lot better next game. If he doesn't that could not only be the end of the season but maybe the end of his Oiler career and what a sad way to go out that would be.

"Lucky that he didn't get suspended" serious. Thats the kind of take of people like Subban that hate the Oilers. Its a complete joke it was even reviewed. How many Panthers players have infracted in the two games? What Drai did wasn't even in the top worst instances in series.

 

[foshizzle]

Because Schwartz has shown success in developing a pipeline of prospects into NHL goaltenders. One has to look at evidence and holistically to make a fair conclusion. Broissoit, Jary, Hart, and Skinner with whom he's worked since the guy was like 12 years old. You need something to work with and Schwartz has done that with developmental phase prospects.

You've quibbled before about Broissoit yet here's his NHL results from a recent TSN column suggesting the Leafs are looking at him:

"Brossoit went 15-5-2 this season with the Winnipeg Jets, finishing the campaign with a .927 save percentage and a 2.00 goals-against average. He returned to Winnipeg in free agency last summer on a one-year, $1.75 million contract after spending the previous two seasons with the Vegas Golden Knights.

The 31-year-old netminder has a career record of 64-46-13 over 141 NHL games with the Edmonton Oilers, Jets and Golden Knights."

Skinner was hardly a 'forgotten' prospect when he was sent to the ECHL to ensure he could get starts while onboarding later, behind other system prospect goaltenders. It's a normal approach by NHL organizations for a position that has 2 per team. Skinner with Rodrigue who works under and in coordination with Schwartz's direction have together built up the goaltender. It takes a team to nurture and support goaltender development with the complexity of the position being technical, physical, and hugely mental strength and resiliency. One can't simply divorce Schwartz from leading the organization's function and most definitely not from the player he's worked with since pre-puberty. Defies logic and reality.

It's not that my opinion of Schwartz is so high. It's the blatant disregard of facts and reality to have an honest discussion of a coaching role that we don't and cannot see the majority of the work involved. Results with Skinner and young, development age NHL goaltenders is strong and compelling evidence including watching Skinner's second playoff being a key component of a Cup Final run.

There is inherent athleticism which is critical to success of modern era goaltending. Bob and other elite tenders have incredible flexibility and dexterity which they use to make saves most other goaltenders cannot. Their reflexes are finely tuned with hand eye coordination. Then add the mental strength on top of athletic ability.

The takeaway from Fuhr's commentary is that some technical refinement can be made (note, that's one area of a 7 point equal weighted inventory of Ian Clarke's regarding elite goaltenders) and that Skinner will likely continue to grow his game like tracking and reading plays through experience. Skinner has shown remarkable growth in two short years after his development path of 2-3 year apprenticeship got upended immediately by the organizational failure to bet on Jack Campbell as the missing piece as Cup goaltender for a contender. The guy that saved this organization from a prospective calamity has been trained and coached by Schwartz since the age of twelve.

oh my god- having a conversation with you is exhausting. You seem like the person who just waits for a trigger word so you can go into essay long responses.

Me: Listening to Fuhr and Woodley have changed my perspectives on Skinner.

You: No, you didn’t listen

Me:?

Me: Skinner is a good goalie

You: No, he’s a good goalie

Me: Fuhr and Woodley said experience is a factor

You: No, experience is a factor

Me?

You: in MY OPINION, Stuart can go from good goalie to a great goalie under better coaching

You: No, Schwartz coaches good goalies

Me?

Dude, I seriously have no idea what points you’re arguing against. Seems like you agree with me but are arguing with yourself. Anyways- I can’t even say agree to disagree because I honestly don’t know what you are arguing about. So- I will just bow out and wish you a great day.

 

[harpoon]

I do t think it’s so much the playing him hard that gets to him it’s the abuse and lack of accountability from the officials that do it. Leon will fight through most things but constant slashes hooks and attempted head shots will set him off. And rightfully so

I don’t disagree with that. But I’ve seen Draisaitl react badly to big hits that weren’t particularly dirty either. Tkachuk will certainly know how to push some buttons and I’m sure has shared his ‘knowledge’ with teammates. Draisaitl will continue to be targeted imo. Will he learn to stop reacting in a way that hurts the team?

 

[WaitingForUser]

I don’t disagree with that. But I’ve seen Draisaitl react badly to big hits that weren’t particularly dirty either. Tkachuk will certainly know how to push some buttons and I’m sure has shared his ‘knowledge’ with teammates. Draisaitl will continue to be targeted imo. Will he learn to stop reacting in a way that hurts the team?

Oh I agree he can be a hothead. As sad as it is he and Connor have both also been labeled whiners for comments they have made regarding the disgrace that is the officiating in the NHL. This doesn’t help matters when it comes to the game management masters either. He needs to calm down and just play sometimes. I think issue is he a Connor heard for years that they needed to just wait for their turn they will be getting the benefit of the doubt calls. And to some degree this has happened over the last few years in the regular season. The playoffs not so much and after 3 and half rounds I think both he and Connor are fed up. They won’t call it out to the media for fear of even worse circumstances in game. That I think is the saddest part of the whole situation.

I have said it before and will say it again. Refs should not be above criticism it’s their JOB. Especially on a world stage they should have to account for their actions just like the players and the coaches. Make them answer media questions and watch how fast “game management” goes away!

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

The goalies you listed are very average NHL goalies. Again, you’re proving my point. I’m not quite sure why you are writing essays. Seems like you’re creating your own points to argue against? I’ll say it again- Skinner is a good goalie who can be great with better coaching.

About Skinner saving the Oilers- do you remember where he was in 2018-19? In Wichita. He was up in the A for a year but sucked and was demoted again. It was in 2020 under where he started making incremental improvements. I guess you are one of the few who follow the Wichita Thunder. Agree to disagree here. You seem to be happy with mediocrity in coaching- I’m not. Have a great day

Evidence: Schwartz has developed 3 starting NHL goaltenders and 1 longstanding quality back-up on good teams.

They're all NHL starting goaltenders with Hart and Skinner arriving earlier than average projection. Skinner dropped into the scalding deep end of an NHL deep playoff team wanna be
was good enough for Calder shortlist consideration. Broissoit is the exception and he's carved out a solid decade long NHL career. You have a strange sense of average.

What's been faulty is a long-term organizational 'strategy' to plug in old, largely average veteran goaltenders and think they can win. Finally after a decade they had one young mid-range prospect break that pattern. Helped by the organization coach that's nurtured his development since he was 12 years old.