Prospect Info: Sawyer Mynio: 89th Overall 2023 Draft (Seattle) - LD

Jyrki21

2021-12-05
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I don't like to repeat, but reading your comment makes me ***** angry as Jayden Perron would've been a much better pick. Do we still have the same scouting team responsible for drafting Bryan Allen?
Bryan Allen was part of a completely locked-in top 4, with a pretty well-known downward slide within it. This wasn't a classic Canuck case of cynical drafting, they took the guy anyone else would have taken. They just have a habit of bottoming out in weak draft years (or trying really hard not to bottom out in strong ones, I guess?)
 

Reverend Mayhem

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Bryan Allen was part of a completely locked-in top 4, with a pretty well-known downward slide within it. This wasn't a classic Canuck case of cynical drafting, they took the guy anyone else would have taken. They just have a habit of bottoming out in weak draft years (or trying really hard not to bottom out in strong ones, I guess?)

This franchise is consistent at being out of step with *when* they should be rebuilding. With any luck, the next time the shoot for the bottom will be a run of like 5 weak drafts.
 
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God

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Bryan Allen was a pretty good defenseman for us. The point production obviously isn't in line with what people expect for a top 10 pick, but he was drafted in an era that benefited big strong defensemen who could clutch and grab and make life miserable for opposing forwards. Managed to do ok in the post-lockout NHL too.
 

ScottishCanuck

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I really like this pick.

My only gripe with it is that they probably could have taken him a round or two later. Maybe they see something in him and didn’t want to risk it.
 

tantalum

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Big reach without impressive numbers or size.

The expectation has to be a huge breakout next season.
I would imagine so. Wonder if they think he will develop like Seeley did...from 7th round pick to Team Canada. Just seems like a similar scouting report at this stage to Seeley.
 

TomWillander1RD

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Bryan Allen was part of a completely locked-in top 4, with a pretty well-known downward slide within it. This wasn't a classic Canuck case of cynical drafting, they took the guy anyone else would have taken. They just have a habit of bottoming out in weak draft years (or trying really hard not to bottom out in strong ones, I guess?)
Yes, Allen wasn't a bad pick considering the style of game at the time. My comment was that Canucks' scouting team is acting like they are stuck in 90's focusing on a player with character and heart rather than pure skills. Mynio is a player who, even if he reaches his potential, will likely be just a replacement-level defenseman. There are numerous players of that caliber available in the free agent market each year, willing to accept minimum salaries.

On the other hand, Jayden Perron clearly possesses the potential to develop into a top-six winger, which carries significantly more value. I cannot guarantee that Perron will pan out, but his skills and hockey IQ are undoubtedly at a first-round level. This is the type of pick the Canucks should be making. Considering Allvin's supposedly emphasis on targeting players with skill rather than just compete level, Perron fits that description perfectly. I just want to see some consistency.
 
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MS

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Bryan Allen was part of a completely locked-in top 4, with a pretty well-known downward slide within it. This wasn't a classic Canuck case of cynical drafting, they took the guy anyone else would have taken. They just have a habit of bottoming out in weak draft years (or trying really hard not to bottom out in strong ones, I guess?)

Bryan Allen was a pretty good defenseman for us. The point production obviously isn't in line with what people expect for a top 10 pick, but he was drafted in an era that benefited big strong defensemen who could clutch and grab and make life miserable for opposing forwards. Managed to do ok in the post-lockout NHL too.

Allen was a good player who was let down by wonky knees.

Had all kinds of trouble in his draft+1/2 and then managed to stay healthy for a few years and was a really solid top-4 guy in his last year in Vancouver and first two years in Florida and then he blew out a knee again and he was really only a depth guy after that.

If he could have had a full healthy career he's probably a Brett Pesce type.
 
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biturbo19

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OK, so I had a free night tonight so I basically shift-by-shifted Mynio in two of the games against Winnipeg in the WHL Finals.

And on closer watching ... not really impressed.

The good is that he's pretty clearly a guy who competes and battles, tries to get in front of shots, engages opposition forwards. Seems to have good hockey sense and solid fundamentals. Talked about his PK work in the interview linked above and yup - he basically plays top PK unit on an elite team.

But man, there's no tools there. I'll walk back what I said earlier about his skating - it isn't good. Doesn't generate much leg drive and isn't quick or smooth skating backward or forwards. Footwork is OK but nothing special. Talked in the Celebrini thread how Celebrini looked to have a bigger frame than he was listed at and Mynio is the opposite - looks pretty short and small. Offensively he makes the simple plays well enough but there's nothing dynamic there and no X-factor and no real upside. Basically a smallish, slowish defensive defender.

The player I kept thinking of watching play was Ashton Sautner who has basically the same toolbox and even has a similar look/stance/skating style on the ice. And Sautner basically overachieved to get 23 NHL games.

Looks like a guy who probably should have gone in the 6th-7th round and has 3rd pairing upside. I don't get the impression at all that he was a hidden gem on that great Seattle team.

That's definitely pretty fair as an assessment of "what is there currently".

The way i see this pick, is that they must be banking pretty heavily on physical development making him a more dynamic skater and player. A lot of the flaws with his skating, are that it's a bit disjointed at times and like you said...lacks power/explosiveness. It has a lot of the hallmarks of a guy who hit a bit of a growth spurt and just hasn't caught up yet.

I can see a projection there based on his height/weight from the combine and just visually on the ice where he looks really thin/light and not at all powerful, where some time and physical development could make him a stronger, more assertive, dynamic player.

That, combined with the expectation that he's going to be stepping into a bigger role...i think that's what they're drafting here. Not exactly "what he is now" per se.


Whether that pans out or he never gets there, that's certainly a bit of a shot in the dark. I'd imagine it's based on some more extensive off-ice and behind the scenes scouting, interviews, conversations with coaches, etc. In addition to probably looking at combine testing more closely. Or at least, i'd hope it's predicated on those sort of things that indicate that room for development is actually there, with a reasonable chance of happening.


But it's certainly a big "headroom" projection swing. Drafted for the player he might become rather than what he has for tools today exactly. Which to me at least, makes him very much the opposite of those big 200lb+ Stewart MacKenze, Cederholm, etc. etc. type lunks playing a bottom-pairing tough guy in junior leagues at their maxed out physical development level.
 
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Jyrki21

2021-12-05
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Yes, Allen wasn't a bad pick considering the style of game at the time. My comment was that Canucks' scouting team is acting like they are stuck in 90's focusing on a player with character and heart rather than pure skills. Mynio is a player who, even if he reaches his potential, will likely be just a replacement-level defenseman. There are numerous players of that caliber available in the free agent market each year, willing to accept minimum salaries.
Oh I agree totally, that's exactly what I mean by "cynical drafting"... looking for NHL role-players by looking for amateur role-players. I just don't think it applies to the consensus guy like Allen was. But every time the Canucks act like they're allergic to scoring in the draft I simply don't understand it. It's like they're trying to prove a we're-so-clever point without realizing that the opposite gets proven over and over again, and it's one of the biggest reasons they're a traditionally bad team.
 

Burke's Evil Spirit

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Oh I agree totally, that's exactly what I mean by "cynical drafting"... looking for NHL role-players by looking for amateur role-players. I just don't think it applies to the consensus guy like Allen was. But every time the Canucks act like they're allergic to scoring in the draft I simply don't understand it. It's like they're trying to prove a we're-so-clever point without realizing that the opposite gets proven over and over again, and it's one of the biggest reasons they're a traditionally bad team.

This cuts both ways - a good prospect may be buried behind older players on a strong junior team and not get the PP1 opportunities to rack up the gaudy numbers. Kudryavtsev was one such pick last year, and broke out this year. Mynio could easily be - lots of 19/20 year old D men on that Thunderbirds team, including a positive-trending first round pick (Korchinski) and Luke Prokop in his draft+3 year.

The Canucks *have* drafted a tiny scorers in the late rounds in recent years: Palmu, Manukyan, Lockhart. The "pedestrian USHL counting stats" picks (Gaudette, McDonagh, Tyler Madden, etc) have trended a lot better.
 

strattonius

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Management is focusing their energy on development, even when it comes to drafting.

I think they like that Mynio will be getting big minutes with a well run junior organization next year - Just like they liked that Willander was going to the NCAA to play bigger minutes in a better situation as well.

They probably see the enormous work this player will take to develop but they like the situation going forward. It will be a boom or bust season for this player next year when they will be forced to play a bigger role.

I'm in agreement that targeting a smallish defensive defender at the junior level is almost guaranteed to not work so that's why I think next season tells the story with this player.
 
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F A N

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Top? Him and Hanzel were the top two defensive defenseman.

Ya that was my question since you watched every game. I read that he was playing top shutdown minutes for his team (which is impressive) but then you said he was lower on the depth chart. I'm just wondering about his usage here. Can you expound?
 

MS

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That's definitely pretty fair as an assessment of "what is there currently".

The way i see this pick, is that they must be banking pretty heavily on physical development making him a more dynamic skater and player. A lot of the flaws with his skating, are that it's a bit disjointed at times and like you said...lacks power/explosiveness. It has a lot of the hallmarks of a guy who hit a bit of a growth spurt and just hasn't caught up yet.

I can see a projection there based on his height/weight from the combine and just visually on the ice where he looks really thin/light and not at all powerful, where some time and physical development could make him a stronger, more assertive, dynamic player.

That, combined with the expectation that he's going to be stepping into a bigger role...i think that's what they're drafting here. Not exactly "what he is now" per se.


Whether that pans out or he never gets there, that's certainly a bit of a shot in the dark. I'd imagine it's based on some more extensive off-ice and behind the scenes scouting, interviews, conversations with coaches, etc. In addition to probably looking at combine testing more closely. Or at least, i'd hope it's predicated on those sort of things that indicate that room for development is actually there, with a reasonable chance of happening.


But it's certainly a big "headroom" projection swing. Drafted for the player he might become rather than what he has for tools today exactly. Which to me at least, makes him very much the opposite of those big 200lb+ Stewart MacKenze, Cederholm, etc. etc. type lunks playing a bottom-pairing tough guy in junior leagues at their maxed out physical development level.

But, I mean, there are all kinds of smallish/slowish guys in the CHL like this that you could say the same things about and most are late round picks or don't get drafted.

His frame looks small and I don't really like the mechanics of his skating to think that when he fills out he'll be anything better than a mediocre skater in pro.

Again, to me this looks like a very low-upside player with absolutely nothing about him that pops and looks like it will play up levels well. And I can't see how this is a better bet than a Carter Sotheran or Hoyt Stanley or many others.
 
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F A N

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Allen was a good player who was let down by wonky knees.

Had all kinds of trouble in his draft+1/2 and then managed to stay healthy for a few years and was a really solid top-4 guy in his last year in Vancouver and first two years in Florida and then he blew out a knee again and he was really only a depth guy after that.

If he could have had a full healthy career he's probably a Brett Pesce type.

Yep. I'm a big Bryan Allen fan. There was also a time during the Brookbank fiasco where Allen was forced to fight.

Plus he was ranked #4 at the time of the draft and if you look at the top 10 he was, in hindsight, a fine pick.
 

F A N

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Yes, Allen wasn't a bad pick considering the style of game at the time. My comment was that Canucks' scouting team is acting like they are stuck in 90's focusing on a player with character and heart rather than pure skills. Mynio is a player who, even if he reaches his potential, will likely be just a replacement-level defenseman. There are numerous players of that caliber available in the free agent market each year, willing to accept minimum salaries.

On the other hand, Jayden Perron clearly possesses the potential to develop into a top-six winger, which carries significantly more value. I cannot guarantee that Perron will pan out, but his skills and hockey IQ are undoubtedly at a first-round level. This is the type of pick the Canucks should be making. Considering Allvin's supposedly emphasis on targeting players with skill rather than just compete level, Perron fits that description perfectly. I just want to see some consistency.

Which high skilled player without "character and heart" end up succeeding?

In terms of draft statistics, teams are more likely to find top 4 Dmen late than top 6 forwards late in the draft. There's a good reason for that. With Perron, specifically, he's 5'9" who shies away from contact and takes majority of his shots far away from the net. If a team wants to take a chance on his skill that's fine. But let's acknowledge why teams would prefer to pick someone else here.
 

TomWillander1RD

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Jul 21, 2004
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Which high skilled player without "character and heart" end up succeeding?

In terms of draft statistics, teams are more likely to find top 4 Dmen late than top 6 forwards late in the draft. There's a good reason for that. With Perron, specifically, he's 5'9" who shies away from contact and takes majority of his shots far away from the net. If a team wants to take a chance on his skill that's fine. But let's acknowledge why teams would prefer to pick someone else here.
Character and heart are terms that are often used to describe lesser-skilled guys.

The issue is that pretty much every player who reaches the NHL level as just a character and heart player has already demonstrated a high level of skill at the junior level. However, based on the reviews, it seems that Mynio does not possess any exceptional skill that would allow him to excel even at the junior level. Like Allvin once said, everybody competes.

Regarding Perron, are you suggesting that he is a skilled player lacking character and heart. From my observations, Perron showcases intelligence and consistently engages in all three zones, indicating his commitment to the game. Shying away from contact and staying away from the net weren't my observations. Moreover, in a game against the highly regarded prospects from the USNDP, including Smith, Leonard, Perreault, and Moore, Perron not only held his own but I'd say even outperformed them, showing that he possesses both skill and character (not being intimidated).
 

F A N

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Character and heart are terms that are often used to describe lesser-skilled guys.

The issue is that pretty much every player who reaches the NHL level as just a character and heart player has already demonstrated a high level of skill at the junior level. However, based on the reviews, it seems that Mynio does not possess any exceptional skill that would allow him to excel even at the junior level. Like Allvin once said, everybody competes.

Regarding Perron, are you suggesting that he is a skilled player lacking character and heart. From my observations, Perron showcases intelligence and consistently engages in all three zones, indicating his commitment to the game. Shying away from contact and staying away from the net weren't my observations. Moreover, in a game against the highly regarded prospects from the USNDP, including Smith, Leonard, Perreault, and Moore, Perron not only held his own but I'd say even outperformed them, showing that he possesses both skill and character (not being intimidated).

I don't disagree that character and heart are terms that are often used to describe lesser-skilled guys but I don't see how that's relevant. Crosby had character and heart even as a draft-eligible prospect even if it wasn't used by others to describe him.

I disagree with your assessment of Mynio. Mynio IS excelling at the junior level. From what I have read, he defends very well. Skates well. Good stick. Blocks shots. Good on the PK. This part of his game projects well IMO. You're not getting a perceived top prospect in the 3rd round. There will be warts. But what Mynio does have going for him is his defensive play. @Bubbles would be a better resource than I am here.

I'm not suggesting at all that Perron lacks character and heart. Point is Perron is not seen as likely to develop into a top 6 player. If he was he wouldn't have been available at 94th overall. All I am suggesting is that it's understandable for teams prefer to pass on him and a lot of it starts with the fact that he is 5'9". I haven't read any scouting reports that says Perron has elite skill. Perron didn't dominate the USHL like Gaudreau and Caulfield. He doesn't play like Gallagher or Marchand or Gourde. There are undrafted small skilled players who make it but they can take a long time to get there like Marchessault.

Again, had the Canucks taken a chance on Perron's skill I don't have a problem with that. But I do like the Mynio pick for the reasons I have already stated.


Have we ever done well with scouting in the Dub?

Something needs to change

There was a time when we did ok. We drafted Cam Neely who was absolutely the best pick to be made at that spot.
 

LemonSauceD

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Would have preferred Minnetian to be honest. Hope he pans out, but obviously have my expectations set to low on him.

Wasn’t really happy with this draft to be honest. Brzustewicz was an absolute steal of a pick considering how far he had fallen and Celebrini looks like a hidden gem.

In the fourth round we could have walked with Perron, Minnetian, and Allen.
 
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HairyKneel

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That 1983 draft was a good one for Vancouver Island! Russ Courtnall and Cam Neely early, Richard Hajdu in the second from Victoria, and Don Barber in the 6th.
Neely was brought up in Ridge. He lived in Comox when he was a baby
 
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Bubbles

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Ya that was my question since you watched every game. I read that he was playing top shutdown minutes for his team (which is impressive) but then you said he was lower on the depth chart. I'm just wondering about his usage here. Can you expound?

He was lower on the depth chart simply because of the stacked defenseman. He will have much more increased role with the Birds next year and may be in the top pairing with Pickford.

He was always on the PK as well, and like I mentioned was absolutely brilliant in the Mem Cup ( have to laugh at that person who watched the same game and said otherwise). I'm pretty sure the Canuck scouts saw him there in Kamloops and that's why he was picked a bit earlier.

It's good value for a 3rd rounder. He'll never be offensively great but if everything works he may end up being a Tanev or Slavin.

He was also +50.
 
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Gstank

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I think this is the pick im most excited for. He was buried on an absolutely stack Seattle team and I won't be surprised if that limited his offense. IMO the guys who are + defensively are often overlooked for the Tony Deangelos and Lane Hutsons of the world. And they arent given a lot fo time to develope an offensive game before they are cut loose
 

F A N

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The draft analysts (Robinson etc.) are saying this is a wasted pick.
What's the basis for that? Central Scouting had him 62. Hockey Prospects had him #86. He was also among the prospects invited to the draft combine.

I'm open to discussions about drafting him later but I don't see how he is a wasted pick.
 

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