Sarnia Sting 2024 - 25 Season Thread, Part II

[StingUpdates]

Well final game of the first half. It's pretty ridiculous this is game 36 for Sarnia & others are only at 30/31.. Alas. They managed to beat Kitchener & at least ensure a split this week so if they somehow find a way to even get a point it's a massive win for the club. In saying that im totally expecting an L tonight. London is absolutely rolling. You know Hunter will have them fired up to go into the break riding high. Just wanna see a lot of what we saw vs KIT. Make them earn their goals, be disciplined & make smart plays.

Keep with the good habits that's got them back on track here a bit.

 

[StingUpdates]

Same lines up front except Johnston finally draws back in beside Karimov & Di Iorio. Gotta think this might be his final chance to prove something. Been sat for 2 weeks. Playing former team. If he can't get going for this he won't be able to for anything else.

Listing the 2nd pair as Hurt-Bodin, but I hope that's only for the start.. Be rather dumb to split up 6-72 when they've been such a good pair together. Bridgewater & Barr sitting for Omeri. Stupid for both to be sitting, especially 43. He's been arguably their most consistent Dman the last 20 games outside Young/Fischer.

 

[StingUpdates]

My god Brown is unstoppable now lmao. What a goal.

Can't take 3 penalties 1 being a 4 min penalty vs these guys. Asking for trouble.

Ablofan is a clown. Jumps Hurt for a perfectly clean hit, not even remotely dangerous & then acts like he just fought Chara or something lmao.

5on5 not bad. Wish Surzycia had that 1st goal back.

 

[SarniaStingFan]

My god Brown is unstoppable now lmao. What a goal.

Can't take 3 penalties 1 being a 4 min penalty vs these guys. Asking for trouble.

Ablofan is a clown. Jumps Hurt for a perfectly clean hit, not even remotely dangerous & then acts like he just fought Chara or something lmao.

5on5 not bad. Wish Surzycia had that 1st goal back.

I know we all love Karimov's skill but a period like that is why he doesn't get more ice time. First penalty was really bad. I don't even think Julien touched him and then he cross checks him in the face and gets a double minor. Second penalty was because he couldn't get off the ice. He made a bad back pass into his own zone that didn't connect instead of taking two strides forward, dumping the puck into LDN's zone, and going for a change. That led to an icing, he can't get off, he takes the slashing penalty, and London scores.

They could have come out of that period tied. They played a solid road period at 5v5 but as you said you can't give LDN four PPs

 

[StingUpdates]

Call everything in the 1st then read has a full on bear hug on Bodin for 3-5 seconds and they just stare at it. LDN makes it 3-1 25 seconds later. Brutal. Just brutal.

 

[StingUpdates]

Seriously what the hell is wrong with Letang.

Hurt-O'Brien has been an awesome 2nd pair for this team. It has stabilized Hurt & during a winning streak he splits them up?????

Now the D is getting gashed left and right for the first time in 5-6 games..

Moronic.

 

[DarkRedxJ]

Well that was ugly.

 

[StingUpdates]

Yah about what I expected score wise. LDN is on an absolute role. Everything for them is clicking. Impressive to watch.

We are far flatter tonight tho than I expected..not seeing that relentless, we want it more attitude tonight. Seem ready for the break after getting the win vs KIT

 

[SarniaStingFan]

Yah about what I expected score wise. LDN is on an absolute role. Everything for them is clicking. Impressive to watch.

We are far flatter tonight tho than I expected..not seeing that relentless, we want it more attitude tonight. Seem ready for the break after getting the win vs KIT

I agree with your earlier point that the line mixing didn't make any sense. Hurt has been noticeably worse today. Johnston hasn't responded well tonight either. I would have rather stuck with 11F/7D and had Bridgewater in. Hoping we see a good response in the third period. Don't want bad habits to creep into your game before the break

 

[StingUpdates]

Full marks to London. Best team in the league maybe even without their all stars. Just insane how well coached, structured, cohesive they are. No space to make plays. No glaring weaknesses to take advantage of.

But Im rather disappointed in the effort from us. Where was all the stuff that made them successful lately? Didn't feel like the extra effort, uptick in physicality, composure was there. Obviously part of it is LDN, but they seemed to roll over once they made it 3-1 & that's disappointing to see.

I just don't get Letang man. Every coach thinks the same when your winning. Don't touch anything. Instead he takes out Bridgewater who's been rock solid for Bodin who frankly has been awful for a while now & puts Johnston in not only on L3, but PP2 & in the 4on4 time. Splits up 6-72 who've been so good as the 2nd pair & what a coincidence Hurt was putrid tonight with Bodin. I want to put my head thru a wall watching Omeri play PP2 over Karimov & Bridgewater (when he's in).. Another glorious night on the PP as a whole. Straight up embarrassing to watch it. Do they even fricken practice it?!? The new PK strategy is fricken brutal too. 0 Aggression or pressure.

No need to be running Surzycia into the ground either. Maillet has given them good starts. He should've gotten a game lately & at the very least that 3rd period tonight.

Like what in the actual hell is he thinking. Also wasted his timeout challenging that one goal where Sim never even touches Surzycia.

Oy. 3-1-1 into the break is nice to see after November, but come out playing LDN x2, SAG, BRNT. Team is far from out of the hole.

 

[stingwagoner]

All I can say it's out coached HUGE. London most organized breakout I've seen always up middle but we don't adjust. Zero response when they start to play their way we fall into their garbage antics.

LETANG is shit. Break up our best D Pair 72 and 6, sit Bridgewater for bodin and omeri. Put in the Line wrecker 37. Then play him top 9 minutes and 4 on 4 and pp2 wtf
That's on Letang boys fighting, juggles all night back to same garbage coach.

 

[StingUpdates]

All I can say it's out coached HUGE. London most organized breakout I've seen always up middle but we don't adjust. Zero response when they start to play tgeir way we fall into their garbage antics.

LETANG is shit. Break up our best D Pair 72 and 6, sot Bridgewatwr for bodin and omeri. Put in the Line wrecker 37.
That's on Letang boysfighting juggles all night back to same garbage coach.

I don't disagree! I think their effort was the #1 issue tonight, well maybe LDN being significantly better was lol, but what you are saying & what I said only pour more gasoline on the fire of why the game looked the way it did.

He cant help himself. The team FINALLY figures it out a bit, we find stable, solid pairs & he changes them??? Before we play the best team in the league?? Like wtf is that.

These guys finally find some cohesion & chemistry & he switches it up on them & shocker they looked out of sync, disorganized in their own end...

I don't even know what to say anymore with Johnston, Seca's worst trade. He's softer & lazier than Ruzicka & I didn't think that was possible. He benches him twice, healthy scratches him for 2 weeks & his reward is to comeback in immediately into the T9, PP2, 4on4??? Like excuse me????

yet he REFUSES to get away from Edwards-Wainwright-Doucette who haven't looked good together since the moment they formed. Effectively taking out 3 of our best Fs on most nights.

It's utter idiocy.

 

[stingwagoner]

And london better team but show some response they push we push.. we had nothing. Line 4broken up after good 1stperiod energy. Then sat and mixed other guys in. Come on
No clue letang gas him and his kid wtf

 

[stingwagoner]

Beamish bad on draws tonight wasn't his night, letangs plays him more on draws just watch how game goes and adjust ffs arrogance is back
Johnston worst trade to date from DS
D coach is needed

 

[StingUpdates]

Welp, that's the first half. A much more adventurous season so far than I anticipated. I certainly was hoping & expecting more than 11 wins in 36 games. I wasn't delusional thinking they'd have 20, 25, but definitely closer to 15-16 & if it weren't for some absolute choke jobs they'd have 14 & if they had ANY semblance of a PP they'd probably have 15-16-17..

I did not anticipate being this mad, frustrated with our coaching, specifically Letang who I think has had an absolutely miserable 1st half behind the bench. The constant line juggling has hurt this team. The decision making of who plays & in what roles has hurt this team. His love for some guys & unwillingness to play others has hurt this team. More than all of that their special teams have hurt this team & badly.

I have watched hockey for 20 years. NHL & OHL religiously. I can truly say I have NEVER seen a worse, more disorganized, more unprepared power play than the 2024-2025 Sarnia Sting's. My frustration & anger has pretty much disappeared its now sheer shock that its THIS bad... They aren't just the worst PP in the OHL! They aren't just the worst PP in the OHL & WHL! They have the WORST power play in the ENTIRE CHL. Dead. Fricken. Last. 10%. I truly don't give a damn if "they don't have elite talent".. A well coached PP can make the weakest of units look drastically better than it is. Clearly whoever runs Sarnia's has absolutely no idea how to run one & should've been taken off that coaching duty 20 games ago. It has hurt this team significantly. If the PP was 15% they'd have 2or3 more wins. Let alone if it was 17-20%.

The PK went from best in the OHL thru 8-10 games to probably the worst. It's 4th last @ 75.7% & its only going down. Only 1 shorthanded goal, too. I'm not as mad with this one, but I am annoyed watching this recent strategic change. It's awful. No aggression or pressure. They just stand around taking away one thing (slam dunk backdoor goals). Teams like KIT/LDN exposed it. If they don't change it it'll sink them in the 2nd half.

4on4 they look lost. 3on3 they are terrified to make mistakes. Both look like areas the coaches have completely neglected. If they haven't I have no fricken clue what they've actually worked on, designed etc.

When this team does play well they are fun to watch. A lot of speed up front. Some dangerous guys from the backend. Some really good young talent. Good goaltending. Lately been very physical. Appreciate how they standup for one another when they feel its necessary. They've shown vs the non elite teams they can definitely win & for them that's big as the 2nd half has far less elite teams & a ton of home games.

I go into the 2nd half cautiously optimistic they can finish 6th. As ive said 100x, schedule gets way easier & so much at home/little travel. You hope combined with the young guys only getting better with more experience they can make a real push for it. But there's a good chance they lose 4-5 in a row here with LDN X2, SAG, BRNT & by the end of that they could be 7-8-9-10 points back & 6th would look rather unlikely. They cant afford another big slump. They cant afford to have their special teams remain this piss poor.

Letang's job should be on the line over the next few months. Some GMs/Owners would've already done it. Sarnia didn't. I can live with it, but he needs to seriously reconsider, go over some things over this break & hopefully they get a solid assistant who helps them figure out stuff that's hurting them & the 2nd half is more enjoyable than the first.

 

[StingUpdates]

As for the players I'm not to disappointed by many, but I think you could argue there isn't one player on the entire roster over performing/exceeding expectations & that's a serious issue & another reason why switching coaches arguably should've been done already.

Vets-

Filak, Doucette, Wainwright - have been their best Fs most nights. They get played a ton & give it all they got. Not an elite trio, but one I like for how hard they work & unlike last yr they do have some skill/finishing ability. Curious to see if any get dealt.

Johnston - major disappointment.. Started like a bat out of hell which had us all pumped. But we've slowly & surely seen why London moved off. Lazy. Lazy. Lazy. Seca's worst trade by a mile

Moses - has been a letdown. Not that I thought he was this great player, or he'd rack up points, but coming off 9G/9A in 50GP I was hoping for maybe 15G/15A, instead he has 3G/2A in 30 GP. Works hard & sticks up for teammates, but was hoping he'd add a little more.

Fischer, Young - been amazing. Absolute work horses back there. Both gotta be more consistent, but for the most part they tend to be our best, most impactful players.

Surzycia - Been their MVP. He's been awesome in net all season. To have an .890 after how horrific this team played is ridiculous. Hope he can earn himself an NCAA deal if he wants it.

Franceschetti - just been whatever. Like his grit, but for 19 you want more than 1 point. Keeping Doherty would've been better, but not mad he was dealt after his camp.

2nd yr guys-

Brown - was the biggest let down for a while, but these last 2-3 weeks have been awfully encouraging & exciting. He's been dominant & showing just how good he can be. Speed, skill, tenacity.. But this is only 2-3 weeks. Gotta see it more because if he falls back into a big slump its all for not..

Kostuch - started slow but I blame him having mono. Takes a toll. + never got T6 or PP ice time. But before his injury he found his game & was starting to get it going.. Praying he can play again & comeback to this team.

Hurt - much more inconsistent than last yr. Started great then really struggled with 5/13 gone. Got back to himself with O'Brien signed which was great to see.

Barr - definitely been a let down. He hasn't looked as good as he was before getting mono last yr. Still have high hopes for him. But do wanna see some progress in the 2nd half..

Bridgewater - really happy with his progress. Has become a fine defender who can really skate & move the puck.. Now if only he was allowed to do what he does best.. Run a PP..

Omeri - Didn't take much of a step. He's a fine 6/7, but you were hoping he'd take a step & maybe pull away from the others who he's older than. I don't see him being here in 3 weeks.

Rookies -

Di Iorio & Edwards - they've been unreal. Both have been better than I expected in different ways. They are gonna be special OHL players with bright futures at the pro level if they keep developing.

Chamberlain - for a 5th he was encouraging, but he should've been sent down & now he's been hurt for a month +.

Maillet - I like him. Not sure he's ever a starter for us, but he's given them good outings more consistently than Chartier did.

Karimov - not as good as scouts/reporters said. Very clear. But in saying that he has been so wildly mistreated (on the ice) it's insane & it's a genuine concern for me we don't see him again after this break. When he's on he's got elite hands, good speed, good size, fearless with the puck, very tricky. When he's off he's all over the map, makes bad plays in bad areas & is undisciplined. A ton to work with, but gotta be reigned in. Hopefully he stays.

Bodin - started really well, but my god he's been a mess since midway thru November. Team worst -26 & nobody is close.. He's gotta play better in 2nd half or they will need to select a new import.

Beamish - absolutely love his game. Convince this kid to stay one extra yr!! lol. Big reason why Brown has turned it around.

O'Brien - like his game a lot. nothing flashy just gets the job done. If he stays next yr he'd be a quality OA Dman.

Apologies for two novels haha. Had to give you guys something to read over the break.

Hope everyone has an awesome Christmas & holiday season!

 

[stingwagoner]

I cant see any changes Jefferies running pp and Letangs passive PK is horrible. I see issues here biggar than anyone else development. Playing passive PK does allow for risk and explosive position changes where players learn to help support each other and work with each other. We need a pressure pk, players learn and work together read off each other not be robots standing in lanes allowing other teams to move puck at will.
Secondly jefferies runs the pp and its God aweful, I did see a new breakout last night looked alot better when 3 guys come up with speed together not the bullshit d up to blueline to drop to 2 Fs.
Much better but set up is stupid. No Movement stationary guys passing outside til 1 makes a forced pass or bad shot, jefferies needs to be replaced, good guy or not this area is huge for development at this rate going to affect next 2 years pp. SECA it was a bad trial local guy retired pro move on get best strategic guy going future depends on it.
Since the beginning I've said what a fake coach Letang is and now I believe he is only as good as his staff and that shows alot. He isn't he would take over it all (unless it is him) in that case Dylan deserves all the blame for sticking with Letang this long. I hope Legwand steps in early new year with help or it shows he really doesn't care about his investment.
We will see how it all plays out.

Possible Moves

Either wainwright, young, Omeri, ,moses and Johnston are gone come deadline.

WAINWRIGHT looks defeated after 4 years of playing 3rd line
He now is second centerman behind Beamish, not so sure this is reason for his drop from beginning to only get stuck with 2 guys never had chemistry with. good defensive responsible player alot of upside if used properly and explosive teams will want an experience Playoff guy, high percentage faceoff guy, pushed around lineup for 4 years.

YOUNG- solid D most nights good shifty escapes good offensive upside-desperately needs coaching to grow rest of game. Been solid just could be elite, good value for him to a contender..

Omeri-has been showcased the way I see it from getting sent to Jr A to running second unit and fixture on 3rd pair. Only to be dealt no other way around what I see. He doesn't deserve the chance over barr or bridgewater.

JOHNSTON just isn't a coachable kid that's why London traded him at his peak in pre season london dowant trade him after time they put in if something wasn't wrong hope DS learned lesson he was Schooled on that wasted trade.

Moses just isn't accepting his role. 4th line energy guy hits everything and is mean and tough. That should be right up his alley cause thinking game hurts his game. Think another team will want to add a great depth peice for a playoff run and hopefully DS moves him as Lueke playing that roll just fine for us.

Lastly I think Bodin is huge disappointment his size and game is drooled over but mental ability is lacking. Speed with decisions aweful isn't physical isn't tough net front he is nothing what was billed to be. Isn't pissed off he wasnt drafted isn't a defensive responsible D just shouldn't be in this lineup if we want to give ourselves chance to be better.
Those guys if traded wouldnt change our future much besides Wainwright and Young.
Think best move value wise would be Wainwright for RW and picks. Get Edward's back in middle.

 

[robp1219]

Beamish bad on draws tonight wasn't his night, letangs plays him more on draws just watch how game goes and adjust ffs arrogance is back
Johnston worst trade to date from DS
D coach is needed

Entire coaching staff with experience on how to run the lines, special teams and make in game decisions. Also a coaching staff that will put in extra time with players to develope them

 

[SarniaStingFan]

Figured I'd give an update on notable Sting prospects considering most leagues are into their break.

Forwards

Chase Gaughan ('24 3rd rounder) has 5 points (2G, 3A) in 23 games with Strathroy (GOJHL)

Ryder Simpson ('24 4th rounder) has 8 points (5G, 3A) in 10 games with Cambridge (GOJHL)

Joshua Denes ('24 9th rounder) has 20 points (10G, 10A) in 29 games with Strathroy (GOJHL)

Julian Mandarino ('23 2nd round U18 pick) has 30 points (20G, 10A) in 36 games with Markham (OJHL)

Defencemen

Shane Neusteter ('24 4th rounder) has 1 assist in 30 games with Komoka (GOJHL)

Will Garrett ('24 6th rounder) has 8 points (2G, 6A) in 24 games with the Toronto Patriots (OJHL)

Gabriel Trozzo ('24 11th rounder) has 15 points (1G, 14A) in 33 games with the Toronto Patriots (OJHL)

Carter Timmins ('23 10th rounder) has 24 points (4G, 20A) in 31 games with Port Colborne (GOJHL)

Kieran McNally ('23 11th rounder) has 13 points (3G, 10A) in 29 games with LaSalle (GOJHL)

Goalies

Kale Osipenko ('24 7th rounder) has a .914 sv% in 15 games with Renfrew (EOJHL) and made one relief appearance with their CCHL team. He stopped all 5 shots sent his way

Max Grovestine ('24 10th rounder) went 3-0 with a .968 sv% with the Toronto Jr. Candiens (OJHL). He's spent most of the year with their U18 team

Worth noting that Denes, Neusteter, Simpson, and Timmins were all invited to the GOJHL top prospects games on Friday

 

[Ferda11]

What a disappointing first half for this team. Year two of a rebuild and somehow the team has regressed from last year. I cannot take any poster seriously who defends this teams coaching staff at this point. There simply is no excuse for the regression. Worst PP in the CHL, one of the worst PK's in the league, 17th in the league for goals for, the worst team in the league for goals against and the 3rd most penalized team in the league. Stats don't lie.

Not sure what the answers are at this point. I understand the arguments about the issue of trying to find a quality candidate behind the bench in the middle of a season. Sting also need to look beyond that and realize how the potential of two years in a row out of playoffs will affect renewals for tickets going forward. Sarnia hockey fans are some of the fastest at jumping off the bandwagon so they need to be cautious about letting this drought hang around for too long without adequate action from management.

I'd like to see Wainwright and Young moved. I think they could generate a decent return for us. Those are two players who would excel in production under literally any other coach in this league. Both deserve a shot on a good hockey team. Double edge sword because if they go, then we don't make playoffs. Moses and Johnston as well, but not expecting anything of substance in return. Both have brought very little to this team as 19 year olds. Not acceptable at that age on a rebuilding team. I'll eat my own words about the Johnston trade. What a moron I was thinking we actually pulled one off against the Hunters LMAO

Trying to find some positives to take away from the first half is hard. I think the rookies have been our biggest positive so far this year. Di Iorio, Edwards, Bridgewater and Beamish have all been fantastic. Karimov should be there as well but his mismanagement has put a damper on his skill set and I don't think we've been able to get a good look at what he is truly capable of just yet. He is not without fault though. His stick work needs to cool down and he'll need to learn to work a bit harder in the defensive end. Letang is suffocating this kid though. Hope he comes back after Christmas lol. Vets like Doucette & Filak up front have been steady and have provided a good example for the youth on finding ways to contribute when you don't exactly posses a high amount of skill. Young and Fischer seem to be our key to success on the back end as long as their healthy. We clearly have a hard time winning any games without both of them in the lineup. Their importance cannot be underestimated if this team has any shot at finding the playoffs.

See what the trade deadline brings but things aren't looking very bright in Sting land right now or the foreseeable future.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to my fellow deprived Sting fans! Cheers

 

[StingUpdates]

Watching the World Juniors preview show. They are talking about what went wrong last year for Canada.

From Bob McKenzie -

"Canada recognized they didn't really forge an identity or culture as strongly as they should've. They didn't have as deep a well of COHESION as a group. The margins in this type of tournament are so tight so when you get into a game vs the Czechs & you end up with a flukey, bouncy shot go off a skate & in then all of a sudden your 5th place. You gotta be better prepared for that than they were last year."

He stated they believed part of the issue was they didn't get a summer camp which they usually do coming off the previous WJCs being held in the summer. Which is fair, but my god lack of cohesion, identity & not being prepared late in a big game? Boy do those things sure sound familiar.

 

[stingwagoner]

Watching the World Juniors preview show. They are talking about what went wrong last year for Canada.

From Bob McKenzie -

"Canada recognized they didn't really forge an identity or culture as strongly as they should've. They didn't have as deep a well of COHESION as a group. The margins in this type of tournament are so tight so when you get into a game vs the Czechs & you end up with a flukey, bouncy shot go off a skate & in then all of a sudden your 5th place. You gotta be better prepared for that than they were last year."

He stated they believed part of the issue was they didn't get a summer camp which they usually do coming off the previous WJCs being held in the summer. Which is fair, but my god lack of cohesion, identity & not being prepared late in a big game? Boy do those things sure sound familiar.

Was a way of saying canada's team didn't have a good coach. HEY that's our coach that's our problem and that's what is happening here with Sting. Hopefully Dylan watches the coverage and connects the dots with sting. Meaning understand what issues are and make something happen. Good guy or not doesnt matter its hurting the Teams future.
Only issue I see is waiting to long to address things with buzz. LETANG needs to go by deadline things are not going to get better without a coaching change Jeffery has to go 1000% need new pp and pk coach and if we don't get a D coach our D will be same spot where they are now next year, minimal Development.

 

[robp1219]

Mitch Young made the “top 5 players that could be moved at the deadline list” for The Hockey News. They also mentioned Lucas Fischer but mentioned he was just named caption so might not be likely.

https://thehockeynews.com/ohl/latest-news/ohl-trade-candidates-top-5-players-who-could-be-moved-before-trade-deadline

 

[frontsfan67]

Mitch Young made the “top 5 players that could be moved at the deadline list” for The Hockey News. They also mentioned Lucas Fischer but mentioned he was just named caption so might not be likely.

https://thehockeynews.com/ohl/latest-news/ohl-trade-candidates-top-5-players-who-could-be-moved-before-trade-deadline

Sting have to trade one of the 2 in my opinion. You’ll get a lot more for 1.5 years of young opposed to .5 of a year. He has to be the guy to go. Lots of young good defencemen that will be on the team the next time they’re great again. Young and Fischer won’t be.

IMO what they should be doing is trading young this deadline for a crap ton of picks and trading Fischer at next years deadline and you may get a 16 year old and picks. Then year after you have a crap ton of picks just off 2 moves and a lot of great young guys that I’m sure will make big steps in their careers. Perfectly set up to make a big run year.

And if they really want to maximize value trade wainwright this off season if he doesn’t go NCAA. You won’t get anywhere near as much as for young and Fischer but you should still get a decent package if you make him available before others. Lets say if guys like Matthew Soto or Chris Thibodeau were to be made available(again, assuming they don’t go NCAA) wainwright won’t go for as much as them so the sting would have to make that trade early before players of that calibre get moved.

 

[robp1219]

Sting have to trade one of the 2 in my opinion. You’ll get a lot more for 1.5 years of young opposed to .5 of a year. He has to be the guy to go. Lots of young good defencemen that will be on the team the next time they’re great again. Young and Fischer won’t be.

IMO what they should be doing is trading young this deadline for a crap ton of picks and trading Fischer at next years deadline and you may get a 16 year old and picks. Then year after you have a crap ton of picks just off 2 moves and a lot of great young guys that I’m sure will make big steps in their careers. Perfectly set up to make a big run year.

And if they really want to maximize value trade wainwright this off season if he doesn’t go NCAA. You won’t get anywhere near as much as for young and Fischer but you should still get a decent package if you make him available before others. Lets say if guys like Matthew Soto or Chris Thibodeau were to be made available(again, assuming they don’t go NCAA) wainwright won’t go for as much as them so the sting would have to make that trade early before players of that calibre get moved.

Yep agreed, they should trade young and wainwright this year. And Fischer next year deadline along with an OA or two. (If they are wanted)