Post-Game Talk: Santa delivers Ladd a present! Jets 4-3 in a Shoot Out!
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Hank Chinaski
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Am I the only one who feels the first goal is the one Pavelec truly should've had? 
Yes it was directly off a turnover, but it was from a relatively long distance and short side. Also, Pavelec commited an error that goalies are taught from the very beginning to avoid, which is to never turn your back to the play. I realize many NHL goalies will do a little pirouette when their defenseman has the puck safely behind the net, but textbook goaltending is to hug your post and glance behind you.
Yes it was directly off a turnover, but it was from a relatively long distance and short side. Also, Pavelec commited an error that goalies are taught from the very beginning to avoid, which is to never turn your back to the play. I realize many NHL goalies will do a little pirouette when their defenseman has the puck safely behind the net, but textbook goaltending is to hug your post and glance behind you.
Unlikely what is? I didn't look for any particular date - Truck asked a question after posting a link about current goalies - I just compiled a list of "great" goalies with bad save %, and asked an honest question about eras, as I have watched hockey in multiple eras - and believe that the quality of scoring chances were far better in previous eras.
Defensive systems, shot blocking, time and space, goalie training, equipment and size are all different - just wondering if there is a way to statistically correlate. If not, no problem, I can leave the debate.
Look at the sv% of vezina winners over the last 30 years? Not a representation of average by any means, but it gives you the standard of "great" and you can see the curve in the save percentage over time? I agree. Bigger pads, and goalie technique are the two biggest factors I think. HUGE ones. Followed by defensive systems, too, but Goalie's are SO much better now.
Even those "great" goalies with "bad" save percentages regularly showed up in the top 5 or 10 of SV% (Belfour led the league twice and was in the top 10 six times). Other goalies that were more regularly atop the SV% list during those eras weren't so bad either, though... Hasek and Roy.
truck
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Eddie led the league in save percentage a couple times. Richter was up there a bunch too. The fact that his career mark isn't much different than Pav's is kinda telling.
Easiest way to era adjust would be to look at their league ranks.
I believe Barrasso was in the top 10 twice in his fist two seasons.
Most of the others spent time in the top 10 too.
They were. What i meant was that the only great goalies with bad save percentages come from an era when those save percentages, relative to the rest of the league were good, as truck said, frequently top 10.
Point being, since we are unable to find any "great" or hell even "good" goalies in the modern era with subpar save percentages either A) Pavelec is not a "great" goalie, B) Pavelec is the only "great" goalie to play in the past 15 years on a team bad enough to ruin his stats.
systems dont. the way the games played now comparitively, yes it does. i don't think there's a way to "convert" a save percentage from the early 90's to now, but using it relatively is the best way to gauge ability.
as for systems and what not, not in the sence that coaches/teams influence a goalies stats. Its been very thoroughly analysed and studied and the influence is too small to be worthwhile. Obviously ryan miller would have a worse save percentage behind my rec league team if we were in the NHL, but the difference between the best nhl team, and the worst nhl team, is small enough that goalies save percentages are only influenced in the samlles manner (.003 was the highest i think?)
Let's lay off Pavelec - probably all Hainsey's fault anyway. 
FYI: With another win last night, the Jets' Points Percentage WithOut Enstrom (PPWOE) in the lineup rose to .610 (23-14-4). Enstrom has now missed 32.8% of Jets regular season games over 2 seasons. I don't think anyone comes close to missing that many over the same period. I think Buff would be #2, missing 16.8%...
FYI: With another win last night, the Jets' Points Percentage WithOut Enstrom (PPWOE) in the lineup rose to .610 (23-14-4). Enstrom has now missed 32.8% of Jets regular season games over 2 seasons. I don't think anyone comes close to missing that many over the same period. I think Buff would be #2, missing 16.8%...
Of all the things said here, this is the only one I take exception to. 6000 saves is far more than a season of hockey. If you faced 30 shots for 82 games that's only about 2500 shots. so yes, it tells you their career stats because it is likely a major chunk of most goalie's careers. the larger the sample size, the less it can change with new data so it will be a pretty good reflection of most people's career stats. this is pretty basic stuff.
year to year, however, things can change drastically. look at Emery. in Ottawa he went from .902 one year to .918 the next year. in Chicago he's gone from .900 last year to .923 this year. in other words, don't tie Pavelec's future to what has happened so far. it is not impossible for him to have some very good seasons coming up and yet have career stats that do not change a lot (especially if you throw in the tale end of a career). this all remains to be seen, however, and I would not expect him to suddently challenge for the Vezina.
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I don't know about anyone else but i'd rather our goaly consistantly be at .913-9.17 then yo-yo between .904 and .922
truck
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not all good goalies are consistent. do you think Kiprusoff has been a good goalie....
2005-06 0.923
2006-07 0.917
2007-08 0.906
2008-09 0.903
2009-10 0.920
2010-11 0.906
2011-12 0.920
2012-13 0.872
the guy's a damn yoyo since the lockout. his career average for those years is .912 and yet almost every year of his career he's way off that... either up or down.
I would say Pavelec is a consistent .906 with the Jets, though. not particularly great. can he get better? probably. can he be Lundqvist? not a chance in hell. if there's a better option... go with it! the contract was likely premature.
King Woodballs
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Hope you've got some time, because I think you read the wrong thread.
Pavelecs not the worst, hes below average.
we'd be a comfortable palyoff team (not great) if he was average.
So...pretty much a more even keeled version of what you just said.
Hank Chinaski
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King Woodballs
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Nah
100% or bust
I would also like Hainsey to score a goal, we can't always get what we want.
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GF or GA? Just kidding - we've seen him score plenty of goals against...
BTW: Good idea holding out for 100%. SV% has been steadily rising since they started recording the stat in the 80's: http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_SavePercentage.php
King Woodballs
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Lynk
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Blackie Dammit
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what the deuce is going on with this thread, 4 game streak in the playoff hunt and everyone sucks????
Duke749
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