Proposal: San Jose - New Jersey
- Thread starter Stephen Gionta
- Start date
PizzaAndPucks
New Jersey Angels diehard
- Nov 29, 2018
- 3,034
- 4,947
Not interested in trading Casey for Zetterlund and I really like Zetterlund as a player too.
HugeInTheShire
You may not like me but, I'm Huge in the Shire
I can't see any reason for SJ to move Zetterlund for anything less than an overpayment like this, but he's also not a guy NJ should be overpaying for.
If any of Nemec, Casey or Mercer are dealt it should only be for a long-term top 6 winger. Zetterlund while good, doesn't fit that.
Stephen Gionta
Boston College > Boston University
HugeInTheShire
You may not like me but, I'm Huge in the Shire
If he's a regular in your top 6, you're probably still looking for an upgrade. He's a middle 6 winger that can fill in on the top 6 but shouldn't be a regular there.
He's a great depth piece sure, but not a piece you trade one of your top prospects for, especially if said prospect is a RHD .
If this was Filmon, Gritzyuk or Hameenaho I'd be down but SJ wouldn't do it.
AfroThunder396
[citation needed]
Like most Devils fans I like Zetterlund and wish we still had him, but this is a pretty substantial overpayment.
I'd be more than willing to move like a 1st for him this offseason but lol at Seamus
Stephen Gionta
Boston College > Boston University
What do you think Casey's ceiling is as a player? Don't you think it's somewhat around a defenseman version of the value of Zetterlund? - a solid 2nd liner that'll score 20-25 goals, and roughly 50 points?
Casey has the potential to be a 60+ point 2 way defenseman, a perennial all star in the league. He should be untouchable, and we sure as hell shouldn't trade him for Zetterlund (who I like a lot).
Nemec is the guy you move if you're trading a young D.
While I think we could win with our forwards I feel like we’re one more middle or top 6 guy away. Zetterlund fits the mold so perfectly for what I want. Still feel like there had to have been a way to make the Timo deal happen without involving him. Unfortunately I think SJ probably loves him and has no interest in moving him.
When it comes to the RD, right now you re-sign Kovy and move Dougie full stop no if ands or buts about it. Casey slides into the Dougie role. Nemec is on the block. He’s not a guy I think you’d “have” to move yet and you could wait to see what happens with him but also he’s a guy that if the right deal is out there then see ya
Stephen Gionta
Boston College > Boston University
Strongly disagree here. Love both Casey and Nemec. But I'd value Nemec higher for sure. Not significantly higher, but higher.
Seamus Casey cannot simply "slide into the dougie role".
And to assume he could would be asking for disaster.
It'd be a worthwhile discussion if Nemec could prove his first 40 games weren't a fluke. But with reports of his mopey attitude in Utica and continued poor play, there's really no justification to take him over Casey. He's just not a good enough skater to be the offensive player he keeps trying to be.
He had an expected goals share of 51% (EH) in those games while constantly switching up pairings due to all the injuries/returnees and the trade of Miller.
DeSimone,Luke, Bahl, Smith, Hatakka, Nemec dcores were played for games, 4 (basically 5 rookies) and Brendan Smith
Was he great in these games? Certainly not compared to what he was before that yes.
But winning your minutes playing/even in them in 20:35 a night in that span with a head coaching change, and pairings that weren't consistent for more than 2 games at a time is not the indictment you seem to think it is.
These 16 games are still much better than anything Casey has shown at the NHL level.
And frankly, to call the end of last year in those games anything similar to the struggles this year is weak.
He absolutely f***ing SUCKED in his time at the NHL level this year. But let's not pretend about games 40-56 before Jack got shut down as some disasterclass of Nemec
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PattyLafontaine
Registered User
- Apr 5, 2006
- 2,859
- 1,255
One day people will stop falling for goaltending/shooting luck heaters. Not anytime soon tho unfortunately
HugeInTheShire
You may not like me but, I'm Huge in the Shire
Cool, now show me the post where I said absolutely anything about Timo Meier
48.0 xG% at 5v5
-3.15 rel xG%
I'm not saying he was terrible in that stretch, he just wasn't very good. Especially compared to how he was playing, which is my point.
Disagree. By the eye test Casey was better than Nemec in that span. His underlying numbers were great when he wasn't being with Nemec, though neither sample was really large enough to draw conclusions.
Don't disagree necessarily, but a lot of his issues we saw this year weren't dissimilar to some of the issues I was noticing at the end of last year, but they were just amplified to the extreme this year.
Let's just agree to disagree and not sidetrack this thread. Cheers.
matt trick
Registered User
- Jun 12, 2007
- 10,258
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Think his point is that Meier is a legit first liner, while Zetterlund's standard stats are effectively the same. Zetts has played a lot with Celebrini, but guessing Meier is usually with Hischier or Hughes? Zetts would have 2.5 less goals on his shooting percentage from last year though Celebrini may account for 1-1.5 of that. Not surprised Timo is way more dominant in terms of position and has less puck luck. One, NJ is world's better than SJ. Two, Timo is a shooting machine, though seems he's been better in NJ than he was in SJ. Again, playing with elite centers can't hurt there.
As per the trade, I'm hoping we have our own Casey in Cagnoni (LHD, but has played some right side). I wouldn't mind having two guys like that, and Casey is I think a bit better propsect (bigger, RHD, bit more production in the AHL, NHL success). I imagine Nemec would be even more highly valued, but he's a guy who would be very near the top of prospects I'd love to see us pursue. That's not a Zetterlund deal though.
Nemec was imo being used as as our number 1 Dman through that span (last year in those 16 games, at least in terms of EV usage), whereas Casey was heavily heavily sheltered in an offensive role this year. Slowing down in the role of a number 1 dman with a new partner every night and a new coach as a 19 year old doesn't give me any cause for concern tbh.
He had an overall excellent season when it mattered.
I wasn't all that impressed by Casey tbh. I think shiny new toy syndrome had everyone keying on on basically every remotely positive thing he did out there. I also think the ridiculous goaltending he got behind him covered for a TON of his mistakes/issues defensively.
His numbers away from Nemec are carried by the final game he played, in which he was being sheltered more than Kurtis MacDermid is. 6 minutes, all offensive scenarios, all against the opposing teams depth, all being babysat by Siegs. I didn't watch that game and come away with the conclusion that he's ready for the big show.
Give Casey this year and next in the AHL. I'm sure guys will get injured at some point, and you bring him up then to see how he's developed and handles the NHL again. He 100% has the talent to potentially grab a chokehold on that, and worst case he will run a PP somewhere in his career.
Nemec may be a guy you have to be careful with or even coddle as he develops into an adult in the NHL to prevent from alienating him or stalling his development. It may be a case of our timeline and Kovacevic's emergence unfortunately hurting his development path. I think, if he Luke, and Pesce was healthy and given the spot to start the year, he would have held onto it/been given a longer leash where he would have figured it out. That's a coaching staff/management problem.
On another note, ELCs need to be rewritten in some way to give 1st round picks a 1 way instead of 2 way deal on their ELC or something like that. 2nd overall pick earning 90k a year in a professional sports league is wild to me. Also, I would be pissed if that happened to me, as woul you. Getting your earnings slashed by 10x is very meaningful
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