Sam Malinski's future

[SAS]

Hello all. What are everyone's thoughts about Sam Malinski and his future on the Avalanche? With Bo having been traded, it seemed like he had a spot on the bottom pairing, but with Brannstrom being signed, it's a bit unclear to me where he fits. He had a nice 10 points in 23 games as a rookie, which was nice to see. Thoughts?

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[Slowdive]

Malinski, Brannstrom, and De Haan will fight for 5-6 D mins. Behrens might be in that mix as well. I feel De Haan has to have one of the 5-6 spots just cause of his size, but Im not saying he plays big.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Malinski’s future probably isn’t with the Avs if he wants consistent NHL time. Even then his skill set is becoming pretty obsolete league wide. He’s a decent OFD with good skating, but his complete lack of defensive ability is a real issue considering he likely isn’t an elite produce from defense. I just feel like most teams don’t want a ~dman on their 3rd pair who’s most likely a PP2 guy and can’t PK.

 

[Richard88]

He's waivers exempt for one more season so it'll be easy to send him down and have him as one of the top call-up options.

 

[willy702]

Malinski’s future probably isn’t with the Avs if he wants consistent NHL time. Even then his skill set is becoming pretty obsolete league wide. He’s a decent OFD with good skating, but his complete lack of defensive ability is a real issue considering he likely isn’t an elite produce from defense. I just feel like most teams don’t want a ~dman on their 3rd pair who’s most likely a PP2 guy and can’t PK.

If he doesn't improve agreed. Hard to learn NHL defense traits in NCAA or AHL. It shouldn't be that hard to improve with his skating though, just has to focus on that end of his game. Branny has had that opportunity and is still just mediocre, his offensive skill isn't as high. I think NHL time may get Sam to be able to play at a Girard level, no shame in being a 4D and 2nd PP QB

 

[The Abusement Park]

If he doesn't improve agreed. Hard to learn NHL defense traits in NCAA or AHL. It shouldn't be that hard to improve with his skating though, just has to focus on that end of his game. Branny has had that opportunity and is still just mediocre, his offensive skill isn't as high. I think NHL time may get Sam to be able to play at a Girard level, no shame in being a 4D and 2nd PP QB

Girard is a very competent defender and always has been at the NHL level. There’s a gigantic difference between Malinski and Girard defensively. There isn’t really a single plus attribute Malinski has defensively at the NHL level and doesn’t have high end offense to offset it.

 

[Balthazar]

Malinski's biggest asset is he's a RD and the Avs don't have many of those.

 

[tigervixxxen]

He's waivers exempt for one more season so it'll be easy to send him down and have him as one of the top call-up options.

I believe he is not exempt. He didn’t even sign an ELC, it was a SPC and should give only one year of exemption as he was considered an age 25 player when he signed it. Therefore I think he’s on the team for the year. They wouldn’t even waive Jones, I don’t think they’ll risk it with Malinski. We’ll see if he’s the 7th D or a regular.

 

[dmac7719]

If he doesn't improve agreed. Hard to learn NHL defense traits in NCAA or AHL. It shouldn't be that hard to improve with his skating though, just has to focus on that end of his game. Branny has had that opportunity and is still just mediocre, his offensive skill isn't as high. I think NHL time may get Sam to be able to play at a Girard level, no shame in being a 4D and 2nd PP QB

You absolutely can learn NHL defense traits in both the NCAA and AHL. Need NHL experience to fine tune them to the NHL, but Malinski is not going to just magically develop these traits with NHL play times.

 

[ABasin]

Malinski’s future probably isn’t with the Avs if he wants consistent NHL time. Even then his skill set is becoming pretty obsolete league wide. He’s a decent OFD with good skating, but his complete lack of defensive ability is a real issue considering he likely isn’t an elite produce from defense. I just feel like most teams don’t want a ~dman on their 3rd pair who’s most likely a PP2 guy and can’t PK.

Defense can be taught/learned and thus improved, IMO.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Defense can be taught/learned and thus improved, IMO.

At 26 I feel like any improvements will be pretty minor. I could see some improvement, but the chances he becomes a PK capable dman, which as a bottom pair dman is important is low.

 

[henchman21]

Defense can be taught/learned and thus improved, IMO.

Really anything can be taught and learned...

Malinski is going to have to be good enough defensively to get 17-18 minutes a night to stick in the NHL. It is a pretty rare thing in today's NHL to have a bottom pairing PP specialist.. which is what he'd trending to.

I believe he is not exempt. He didn’t even sign an ELC, it was a SPC and should give only one year of exemption as he was considered an age 25 player when he signed it. Therefore I think he’s on the team for the year. They wouldn’t even waive Jones, I don’t think they’ll risk it with Malinski. We’ll see if he’s the 7th D or a regular.

Yup, Malinski will have to pass through waivers. It'll probably give some pause, but ultimately they'll keep him up or move him down based on his play. They'd probably defer to keeping him up as an extra until they need space or a different player steps up. If Malinski is waived early, it is probably a bad indicator.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Really anything can be taught and learned...

Malinski is going to have to be good enough defensively to get 17-18 minutes a night to stick in the NHL. It is a pretty rare thing in today's NHL to have a bottom pairing PP specialist.. which is what he'd trending to.

Yup, Malinski will have to pass through waivers. It'll probably give some pause, but ultimately they'll keep him up or move him down based on his play. They'd probably defer to keeping him up as an extra until they need space or a different player steps up. If Malinski is waived early, it is probably a bad indicator.

But on a team that already uses Makar, Toews and Girard on the PP, surely Malinksi won't actually be called on there. Damn shame he can't PK though.

How good is he at the PP? Is he good enough to consider bringing up and showcasing and moving him for something we could better make use of?

 

[The Abusement Park]

But on a team that already uses Makar, Toews and Girard on the PP, surely Malinksi won't actually be called on there. Damn shame he can't PK though.

How good is he at the PP? Is he good enough to consider bringing up and showcasing and moving him for something we could better make use of?

He was pretty decent on the PP when he was up last season. But the question is what team would he be PP1 on? Probably none. So then teams ask the question of do we want him to play 15mins a night of sheltered offensive and PP2 minutes, which most won’t want to do.

 

[henchman21]

But on a team that already uses Makar, Toews and Girard on the PP, surely Malinksi won't actually be called on there. Damn shame he can't PK though.

How good is he at the PP? Is he good enough to consider bringing up and showcasing and moving him for something we could better make use of?

I don't think that he is. There's probably 30-40 guys who are available and better than him as a PP specialist. IE Barrie is still out there and is a very proven NHL commodity on the PP. Problem is teams just don't make room for these guys and certainly won't give much of value. Taking a waiver shot or a 5th/6th round pick... sure. Much beyond that, Malinski has to prove he can hack it in the NHL.

 

[tigervixxxen]

You absolutely can learn NHL defense traits in both the NCAA and AHL. Need NHL experience to fine tune them to the NHL, but Malinski is not going to just magically develop these traits with NHL play times.

There’s no defensive structure and positioning in the AHL, that’s the last thing that someone is going to gain from playing in the AHL.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Meyers was terrible and they did everything to prevent him from getting waived. Same with Jones, Bednar clearly wasn’t a fan, he stuck around all year because management didn’t want to waive him. Malinski isn’t bulletproof, if he sucks sure he’ll get cut but if they see any value in him at all I think he’s on the bus all year. He may not get an extension if they see no future there. But they need him for the narrative and maybe squeeze out another mid round pick for him like they did in Meyers if they need to at the deadline. I’d be shocked if Malinski gets waived, it’s not impossible but I’d be shocked.

 

[Pokecheque]

There’s no defensive structure and positioning in the AHL, that’s the last thing that someone is going to gain from playing in the AHL.

I thought when Cronin first showed up they tried implementing Bednar's system down there, it didn't work, and so they just let Cro do whatever after that.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I thought when Cronin first showed up they tried implementing Bednar's system down there, it didn't work, and so they just let Cro do whatever after that.

They can try in theory but it doesn’t work like that. There’s so many turnovers and lack of positioning that it’s a scramble most of the time. They can carry over some philosophies of how how to play in transition, activating defensemen into the play, low to high back to the points sure but that’s the extent of the system. Cronin was good at defensive details, stick positioning, things like that but the AHL plays an entire different style of hockey folks seem to not realize. It’s not NHL light, the AHL teaches AHL hockey. They end up having to cycle more if they actually get possession than what Bednar prefers is probably the deviation and Bednar’s hybrid man defense isn’t going to work with no structure.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

[edit... asked and previously answered by others]

 

[henchman21]

Defense can be taught in the AHL. We’ve seen if first hand with Graves. Not a chance he gets to the NHL without Cronin’s work on his defensive game. Another recent example is Harley with the Stars. Dude barely got any offensive role and solely was in the AHL to round out his defense. It is clearly possible to improve defensively in the league.

The AHL has more breakdowns and an overall lack of talent. So weird things can and do happen. That doesn’t keep players from learning and improving.

 

[McMetal]

I agree that the AHL is less structured in a lot of ways. If all these guys could play a really tightly structured system, they probably wouldn't be in the AHL. That said though, there is more to defense than just knowing where to be on the ice. 1v1 D is important, too. Knowing how to use your body to get leverage on somebody in a board battle, how to make sure your checks connect and separate the man from the puck, how to use your stick, gap control against the rush, timing when you go down to block a shot, and just generally learning how forwards think and predicting their next move. All of that is stuff you CAN learn at the AHL level.

It's true that none of that will mean much to NHL coaches if you can't figure out where you're supposed to be on the ice, but it's also true that just being in the right place won't help you much if you just get beat every time.

 

[katfude]

Bust.

He's an Avs prospect that wasn't picked top 4, so this is a safe blanket statement to make

 

[ABasin]

Really anything can be taught and learned...

Malinski is going to have to be good enough defensively to get 17-18 minutes a night to stick in the NHL. It is a pretty rare thing in today's NHL to have a bottom pairing PP specialist.. which is what he'd trending to.

I'm not sure that good offensive skill can be taught and learned.

But I certainly believe that players can improve defensively - particularly positionally, stick placement, where to put pucks when under duress, etc. Not sure Malinski will do that, we'll see I suppose. I definitely don't buy into the theory that players can't get better defensively. There are any number of semi-recent examples of this out there, several who are associated with the Avs.

 

[henchman21]

I'm not sure that high end offensive skill can be taught and learned.

But I certainly believe that players can improve defensively. Not sure Malinski will do that, we'll see I suppose. But I don't buy into the theory that players can't get better defensively. There are any number of semi-recent examples out there, several who are associated with the Avs.

ROR went from a guy who could barely shoot or tip a puck... into one of the best goal scorers in the league from in tight. Tips, bar down, quick moves. He never scored 20 goals in the OHL, but has 8 20+ goal seasons in the league. Marchand was a pretty mediocre scorer in the Q. He was a first line guy there, but you never really saw him as a top line NHL guy. 3rd liner probably, maybe 2nd liner if things clicked. Even his first few years in pro, that is all he looked like. But he worked on his game, became a better passer... and more importantly to his point, he became a threat shooting the puck. This transformed him from a 2nd liner to a high end 1st liner for a few seasons. He's certainly on his deline now... but 28-34 (which is an odd age to peak), he was fantastic.

There are things that can't be taught or worked on, but most of hockey is actually things you can learn and technique. Shooting and hands are technique and repetition. There are some muscles that you need to be elite, but they can be worked on even if you don't have genetic gifts to get them to more acceptable levels. Guys may not be Laine in shooting or Zegras... but passable in the NHL is there for almost anybody with enough reps.

What I don't think can be taught is just the freak athletic ability... so things like skating, explosion, bulking up without slowing down, etc. Yes, you can refine areas and work on things to get the most out of your body... but there is a limit. ROR is one of the hardest working players in the league, and he'll never get beyond his limitations athletically. He's just not blessed with MacK's athletic gifts. That's why I don't think skating is all that easy to fix... you can get all the technique and prettiness in the world, but if you aren't athletic... you're never going to be elite. See Jost. If somebody is sloppy technique wise, you can that... and if they are athletic, you can elevate them more.