Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | Well, now what?

[Harvey Birdman]

Say the cap goes up by 2m (low ball estimate right now). Then say that Hagelin walks and is replaced by an ELC (we currently have a lot of wings on cheap deals who've had top 9 time for us, not unrealistic, and guys in WBS who are said to be 4th line ready), that Sheahan is replaced by a Grant/Blueger, and that Maatta is traded for futures and replaced by Riikola on 2m. I don't think that any of that's unrealistic.

You now have 9m worth of cap room to play with. Lets say Guentzel gets 5 of that. 4m left could totally cover Brassard.

edit: 8, not 9, but it still works.

As I just said in another post. I do not see Olli being traded, while he is the whipping boy of the fan base. I do not think GMJR & Co. view him in the same manner as the fan base at the moment. I am also not on the Riikola train after less than ten games on an undrafted player.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

Has someone written about this rumor that Phil refuses to play with anyone but Malkin, or is that just hearsay?

 

[Peat]

As I just said in another post. I do not see Olli being traded, while he is the whipping boy of the fan base. I do not think GMJR & Co. view him in the same manner as the fan base at the moment. I am also not on the Riikola train after less than ten games on an undrafted player.

That's fair enough and probably quite sensible but the option exists if Rutherford decides he loves Brassard more than Maatta (replace Maatta trade with trade for 2m dman if it makes you happier). And while I'm aware that Rutherford does love Maatta a lot, he also clearly likes Brassard a lot too.

 

[EightyOne]

Has someone written about this rumor that Phil refuses to play with anyone but Malkin, or is that just hearsay?

It's inferred by the steadfast pairing with Malkin. Only Sid, Geno, and Letang have stayed in the same roster spots despite the musical chairs going on...

Also...It's been mentioned by Pittsburgh media..But...It's that any more credible than us?

 

[Shady Machine]

It's inferred by the steadfast pairing with Malkin. Only Sid, Geno, and Letang have stayed in the same roster spots despite the musical chairs going on...

Also...It's been mentioned by Pittsburgh media..But...It's that any more credible than us?

It was written about, as I recall anyway, that Kessel wasn't happy about playing with Sheahan. I never heard those complaints about Bones, but he did play a lot more with Malkin in 2017 so maybe.

I'd say it's pretty understandable if he was complaining. You're one of the best RW'ers in the game, yet you have to play with freaking Riley Sheahan.

 

[Peat]

I don't have an exact quote, but I distinctly recall it being a reoccurring theme in the coverage of the play-off exit and subsequent Kessel trade rumours that Kessel and Sully hadn't seen eye to eye on Kessel's deployment, with Kessel being of the mind that he should be with Geno and not Brassard and Sheahan. I don't recall there being talk of Kessel being strongly anti-NotWithGeno before that.

 

[Coastal Kev]

It's inferred by the steadfast pairing with Malkin. Only Sid, Geno, and Letang have stayed in the same roster spots despite the musical chairs going on...

Also...It's been mentioned by Pittsburgh media..But...It's that any more credible than us?

^^^^^ Takes warranted cheap shot at Pittsburgh Media^^^^

Me: Smash that like button.

 

[MrBurghundy]

I still have zero clue why Sid and Kessel have rarely been tried together.

 

[Andy99]

Has someone written about this rumor that Phil refuses to play with anyone but Malkin, or is that just hearsay?

Mackey at the post-gazette has written about it...not an entire article but at least incorporated this comment in articles or chats that he’s had....

 

[EightyOne]

I still have zero clue why Sid and Kessel have rarely been tried together.

It looked meh for like three games...so...it ended. Never to be tried again.

Mackey at the post-gazette has written about it...not an entire article but at least incorporated this comment in articles or chats that he’s had....

Madden mentioned it too, I guess. I sure as shit don't subscribe, but I recall him being mentioned when the rumors "broke."

 

[Coastal Kev]

I still have zero clue why Sid and Kessel have rarely been tried together.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

It looked meh for like three games...so...it ended. Never to be tried again.

Believe they tried it vs Detroit a couple years ago (there were a ton of F injuries) and it was better than "meh", they looked flat out dominant.
Then the next couple games it was fine, but that Det performance wasn't repeatable and was immediately broken up.

 

[EightyOne]

Believe they tried it vs Detroit a couple years ago (there were a ton of F injuries) and it was better than "meh", they looked flat out dominant.
Then the next couple games it was fine, but that Det performance wasn't repeatable and was immediately broken up.

The real point is, it was broken up and abandoned. Meanwhile Sheary was forced into line one time and again. So.

 

[Spoonman32]

The real point is, it was broken up and abandoned. Meanwhile Sheary was forced into line one time and again. So.

Sid probably doesn't want Kessel on his line. He's always had guys who can dig the puck out and win puck battles. The sniper types have always ended up with Geno.

The team should be doing everything it can to allow Kessel to be a threat without Sid or Geno. That was a very important dynamic to the team's Cup wins. Doesn't need to be exclusive, but a viable option at least.

And if Brassard isn't the 3rd line center, then move him along and find someone who is.

All of this could've been avoided had they decided to pony up for a tried and true Bonino and not have to worry about it for a few years. Now here we are, after spending the assets we did for Brassard and both he and Sheahan looking at UFA next summer, with nothing in the pipeline to replace them.

 

[Riptide]

Has someone written about this rumor that Phil refuses to play with anyone but Malkin, or is that just hearsay?

No, just that he was unhappy he wasn't played with him as much as he liked previously. I assume when he was played with Sheahan either in the POs or the RS - I just can't remember when I read about it, but it was something that was reported that he was unhappy because he wasn't playing with Malkin. I would assume that he would have also been content if he'd been playing with Crosby...

Honestly I don't blame him. @mrjiggyfly isn't wrong in that we're probably one of the few (if only) teams in recent years that has someone of Kessel's caliber, and then willingly chooses to play him on the third line (and not out of punishment). And for Kessel, I can understand him being a little miffed about being on L3 when we have 2 of the best centers in the league... and we're not playing him with either of them. No offense to Brassard, but he's doesn't even approach Crosby's and Malkin's level, and as much as I'm a fan of Sheahan - he's a few levels below Brassard.

That said... as a fan I can look at the reasons why we want him on L3 and how that should benefit the team more so then him on L1/L2.

I don't have an exact quote, but I distinctly recall it being a reoccurring theme in the coverage of the play-off exit and subsequent Kessel trade rumours that Kessel and Sully hadn't seen eye to eye on Kessel's deployment, with Kessel being of the mind that he should be with Geno and not Brassard and Sheahan. I don't recall there being talk of Kessel being strongly anti-NotWithGeno before that.

That's what I remember as well.

 

[Riptide]

As I just said in another post. I do not see Olli being traded, while he is the whipping boy of the fan base. I do not think GMJR & Co. view him in the same manner as the fan base at the moment. I am also not on the Riikola train after less than ten games on an undrafted player.

If Riikola really develops as we hope... I suspect that it would be Oleksiak that gets moved, not Maatta. Won't get the value for him or cap space that we would with Maatta... but Rutherford really loves Maatta, and I could easily see a situation where we try like hell to hang onto him.

That's fair enough and probably quite sensible but the option exists if Rutherford decides he loves Brassard more than Maatta (replace Maatta trade with trade for 2m dman if it makes you happier). And while I'm aware that Rutherford does love Maatta a lot, he also clearly likes Brassard a lot too.

I don't think it will matter, because I struggle to see Brassard wanting to stick around past this season. The money might be there, but I don't think he'll be content with the TOI and role here.

 

[Hockey Freak 7]

And if Brassard isn't the 3rd line center, then move him along and find someone who is.

All of this could've been avoided had they decided to pony up for a tried and true Bonino and not have to worry about it for a few years.


@Justin Sickways

 

[AverageJoeFan]

No, just that he was unhappy he wasn't played with him as much as he liked previously. I assume when he was played with Sheahan either in the POs or the RS - I just can't remember when I read about it, but it was something that was reported that he was unhappy because he wasn't playing with Malkin. I would assume that he would have also been content if he'd been playing with Crosby...

Honestly I don't blame him. @mrjiggyfly isn't wrong in that we're probably one of the few (if only) teams in recent years that has someone of Kessel's caliber, and then willingly chooses to play him on the third line (and not out of punishment). And for Kessel, I can understand him being a little miffed about being on L3 when we have 2 of the best centers in the league... and we're not playing him with either of them. No offense to Brassard, but he's doesn't even approach Crosby's and Malkin's level, and as much as I'm a fan of Sheahan - he's a few levels below Brassard.

That said... as a fan I can look at the reasons why we want him on L3 and how that should benefit the team more so then him on L1/L2.

So you really believe Kessel wants that spot on L1/L2? I mean I could see why he would, but why play two seasons of it not being that way, having a banner year, and then feeling the need to switch it up? Not going to lie, it confuses me why he is with Geno at this point...but it could be just me..

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

All of this could've been avoided had they decided to pony up for a tried and true Bonino and not have to worry about it for a few years. Now here we are, after spending the assets we did for Brassard and both he and Sheahan looking at UFA next summer, with nothing in the pipeline to replace them.

So you wanted to pay Bones a ton of money for a long period of time when he showed himself to be fairly injury prone and had only a magical 4 month run of success with the Pens?
Because they tried HBK the following year and it was putrid, so much that Kessel was moved away from Bones.

But yea that totally would've worked out for the Pens

 

[Riptide]

The team should be doing everything it can to allow Kessel to be a threat without Sid or Geno. That was a very important dynamic to the team's Cup wins. Doesn't need to be exclusive, but a viable option at least.

Correction. That was a very important dynamic in one of the two cup runs. We tried like hell in the 2nd cup run and it was an utter failure... which is why Kessel played with Malkin almost exclusively in the latter rounds.

All of this could've been avoided had they decided to pony up for a tried and true Bonino and not have to worry about it for a few years. Now here we are, after spending the assets we did for Brassard and both he and Sheahan looking at UFA next summer, with nothing in the pipeline to replace them.

Zero reason why we couldn't just re-sign Sheahan (at a price that's almost certainly cheaper then what Bonino got) and go from there. Bonino at 4.1m was a very poor option. Sheahan probably wouldn't stick around if the plan was for him to compete for 3c duties with someone... but if we sign him to be the clear cut 3c and use someone like Blueger as the 4c with maybe a depth signing like Grant (or Cullen) to insulate him, he would probably be pretty happy with that, and if the money was right (3-3.5m) likely stick around long term (3+ years).

As for the assets spent... zero issues giving up what we did for Brassard to get 2 runs out of him. It just sucks that our team was playing like meh, and we had some key injuries last POs. Hopefully we get our shit together this season and can be healthy come PO time. And for Sheahan, he was basically free. Wilson and a 3rd for RS and a 5th? That's f***ing free. I'd give that up every single season for someone like Sheahan, and wouldn't think twice about it.

 

[Riptide]

So you really believe Kessel wants that spot on L1/L2? I mean I could see why he would, but why play two seasons of it not being that way, having a banner year, and then feeling the need to switch it up? Not going to lie, it confuses me why he is with Geno at this point...but it could be just me..

He didn't play 2 seasons of it that way.

15/16: He played mostly with Malkin in the RS until Malkin was hurt late in the season and HBK became a thing. They were so hot there was no way in hell you break that up. RS minutes: Malkin (613), Bonino (209), Crosby (193). In the POs it was all HBK, Malkin only had him for 35 minutes vs 261 with Bonino.

16/17: They tried like hell to get HBK to work, but they never got going, and in the end Kessel spent just as much time with Bonino as he did Malkin - 491 vs 432 ES min. In the POs it's 273 (EM) vs 28 (NB).

17/18: He spent the vast majority of his time with Malkin (580). He spent some with Sheahan (290) and some with Brassard (147) and Crosby (103), but most was with Malkin. In the POs it's pretty spread out. Sheahan (62), Malkin (47), Brassard (29) and Crosby (9).

 

[Gurglesons]

Correction. That was a very important dynamic in one of the two cup runs. We tried like hell in the 2nd cup run and it was an utter failure... which is why Kessel played with Malkin almost exclusively in the latter rounds.



Zero reason why we couldn't just re-sign Sheahan (at a price that's almost certainly cheaper then what Bonino got) and go from there. Bonino at 4.1m was a very poor option. Sheahan probably wouldn't stick around if the plan was for him to compete for 3c duties with someone... but if we sign him to be the clear cut 3c and use someone like Blueger as the 4c with maybe a depth signing like Grant (or Cullen) to insulate him, he would probably be pretty happy with that, and if the money was right (3-3.5m) likely stick around long term (3+ years).

As for the assets spent... zero issues giving up what we did for Brassard to get 2 runs out of him. It just sucks that our team was playing like meh, and we had some key injuries last POs. Hopefully we get our **** together this season and can be healthy come PO time. And for Sheahan, he was basically free. Wilson and a 3rd for RS and a 5th? That's ****ing free. I'd give that up every single season for someone like Sheahan, and wouldn't think twice about it.

For what Brassard cost us I don’t understand why people say it was a high cost.

UFA Ian Cole, a goaltender that likely never plays here anyway due to us having 2 legitimate goaltending prospects, and a 1st.

 

[Spoonman32]

Correction. That was a very important dynamic in one of the two cup runs. We tried like hell in the 2nd cup run and it was an utter failure... which is why Kessel played with Malkin almost exclusively in the latter rounds.



Zero reason why we couldn't just re-sign Sheahan (at a price that's almost certainly cheaper then what Bonino got) and go from there. Bonino at 4.1m was a very poor option. Sheahan probably wouldn't stick around if the plan was for him to compete for 3c duties with someone... but if we sign him to be the clear cut 3c and use someone like Blueger as the 4c with maybe a depth signing like Grant (or Cullen) to insulate him, he would probably be pretty happy with that, and if the money was right (3-3.5m) likely stick around long term (3+ years).

As for the assets spent... zero issues giving up what we did for Brassard to get 2 runs out of him. It just sucks that our team was playing like meh, and we had some key injuries last POs. Hopefully we get our **** together this season and can be healthy come PO time. And for Sheahan, he was basically free. Wilson and a 3rd for RS and a 5th? That's ****ing free. I'd give that up every single season for someone like Sheahan, and wouldn't think twice about it.

Never said we overpaid in terms of assets for Sheahan. However, the team was looking for an upgrade all along and set him up for UFA in part because they STILL had not settled the 3C issue. And we'll just have to disagree that the assets spent for 2 years of Brassard for 3C were worth it, especially considering he isn't even a lock to play that role.

 

[Riptide]

For what Brassard cost us I don’t understand why people say it was a high cost.

UFA Ian Cole, a goaltender that likely never plays here anyway due to us having 2 legitimate goaltending prospects, and a 1st.

I don't get it either.

Nothing against Gus, but goaltending is such a tricky position with so many other factors that play into things that I'd place it as even odds whether he ever even develops into an NHL starter. How many times have we looked at "sure fire guys" who never did jack? And that's even before getting into our situation with Murray and Jarry already.

And even overlooking the premium for a #2C, most decent top 6 wingers on a 3m cap hit are going to cost something similar (good prospect and a 1st). And while I wish Cole was still around... at 4.25m, he was as good as gone - and that's something many of us called even early on in the season. We all knew he was going to get overpaid (or at least paid more then we could/should afford), so while it would have been nice to have him last POs, it wouldn't have made much of a difference in how things turned out.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

He didn't play 2 seasons of it that way.

15/16: He played mostly with Malkin in the RS until Malkin was hurt late in the season and HBK became a thing. They were so hot there was no way in hell you break that up. RS minutes: Malkin (613), Bonino (209), Crosby (193). In the POs it was all HBK, Malkin only had him for 35 minutes vs 261 with Bonino.

16/17: They tried like hell to get HBK to work, but they never got going, and in the end Kessel spent just as much time with Bonino as he did Malkin - 491 vs 432 ES min. In the POs it's 273 (EM) vs 28 (NB).

17/18: He spent the vast majority of his time with Malkin (580). He spent some with Sheahan (290) and some with Brassard (147) and Crosby (103), but most was with Malkin. In the POs it's pretty spread out. Sheahan (62), Malkin (47), Brassard (29) and Crosby (9).

Okay so he can succeed anywhere I guess. I just thought the idea was to have 3 lines with Sid, Geno, and Kessel on each to give a balance attack?...I thought that was the thinking...maybe I am wrong.

It's hard to argue production and they certainly have been that so far this year...