- Jun 13, 2010
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Nah the icing on the ****-cake would be the fact that mere days after coming the GM of the Devils he is able to bring in Palmieri for a, what, a 3rd? A move that could have easily had saved his career in Pittsburgh, lol.
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Nah the icing on the ****-cake would be the fact that mere days after coming the GM of the Devils he is able to bring in Palmieri for a, what, a 3rd? A move that could have easily had saved his career in Pittsburgh, lol.
I don't think Palmieri for a 3rd saves Shero, nor should it have.
The dug his grave with years of stubborn, idiotic drafting/signings and loyalty to all of the wrong people. Dude deserved to be fired years ago.
steveg
Registered User
I really don't even get how someone can think this way.
That's essentially saying this:
I can stomach losing Perron and his skill set in order to keep a washed-up, rapidly declining Kunitz in the top-6 (in Perron's place), if they get a good D-man for him and they keep Sprong.
How anyone can "stomach" losing Perron, just so that this team can keep penciling Kunitz into the top-6, is simply beyond me. It scrambles my brain...
12 months ago, this board was ready to accept guys like Stewart, Setoguchi, Semin, etc. as a possible solution to our dearth of top-6 wingers; at that point in time, most everyone here would have given their left leg if only the team were to sign David Perron. Now, we HAVE him, and people are ready to accept losing him SIMPLY BECAUSE KUNITZ?
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mpp9
Registered User
- Dec 5, 2010
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That's the only way I see trading Perron as making any sense. Especially if they have no interest in re-signing him.
steveg
Registered User
I guess what I'm saying, is, TRADE KUNITZ. (THEN keep Sprong, if you like). Problem solved. The only reason I can think of that they'd "have no interest in re-signing him" is because they think they have the top-6 set up perfectly with Kunitz at L1 LW. And that's some scary thinking, on their part...
Speaking Moistly
What a terrible image.
I really don't even get how someone can think this way.
Another way of saying this is:
I can stomach losing Perron and his skill set in order to keep a washed-up, rapidly declining Kunitz in the top-6 (in Perron's place), if they get a good D-man for him and they keep Sprong.
How anyone can "stomach" losing Perron, just so that this team can keep penciling Kunitz into the top-6, is simply beyond me. It scrambles my brain...
12 months ago, this board was ready to accept guys like Stewart, Setoguchi, etc. as a possible solution to our dearth of top-6 wingers; at that point in time, most everyone here would have given their left leg if only the team were to sign David Perron. Now, we HAVE him, and people are ready to accept losing him SIMPLY BECAUSE KUNITZ?
Because Kunitz is totes about to bounce back and they really only need two top 6 wingers. But it's really simple and I'm going to bold it once again You want 4 top 6 wingers. Not 2, not 3, but 5 would be great. 4 top 6 wingers and you want them to be legitimate. You don't ****ing go from 3 to 2, having Kessel and the likes of Bennett and Plotnikov makes 3 confirmed ones acceptable. And you need at least two 2nd wheel types to help create offense so the centre can't be collapsed on, Kessel is one. This ends in whining about the top 6 winger situation again, but this time a lot of people will need to **** about it.
The breakdown some people would have if Malkin was dragging KCH or DCH around for the next two seasons while Kunitz gets progressively worse would be epic. How does Dupuis/Kunitz-Crosby-Kessel and Kunitz/Dupuis-Malkin-Hornqvist sound? Good? Great, go find Bylsma and Shero to come back, and apologize for some of the criticism they got.
People also still wanted Stewart very, very recently. At least I have standards and want Boedker.
Corvidae
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- May 5, 2009
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I know a lot of people around here have forgotten what a good forward prospect looks like, but keeping Sprong in the NHL, let alone penciling him in the top 6 (which a few stray ice-Yinzers are), is just as ludicrous as trading Perron. Which is to say extremely **** ludicrous. Regardless of how good of a camp he's having, he's an 18 year old 2nd round pick. He's not McDavid, he's not Nathan Nackinnon.
The only case to be made for trading Perron is if the coaching staff is completely misusing him, in which case I'd rather dump the moronic coaching staff and bring someone who also has the balls to tell Sid that he's not going to play with Kunitz anymore.
The only case to be made for trading Perron is if the coaching staff is completely misusing him, in which case I'd rather dump the moronic coaching staff and bring someone who also has the balls to tell Sid that he's not going to play with Kunitz anymore.
I wonder what it'll take for people to realize just how important Perron is to this team. Now, as well as moving forward. I don't give a **** what happened over the course of a couple of months last season, during the worst slide this team's gone through in over a decade. He is a legitimate top-6 winger with damn near elite talent. He hustles his ass off, isn't afraid of the tough areas of the ice, AND he's 27.
I mean, it's really not anywhere near the same as trading Perron. It just isn't. Sprong has been one of our best forwards this pre-season, and while he still has room to grow and develop, there's something to be said about allowing him to do so at the NHL level. If he's got the wheels, the IQ, and the skill to play at the NHL level, let him. It's not like we're throwing an 18-year old Fleury into net four months after drafting him and saying "Welp, good luck. Your job is to turn the franchise around."
He'll be well insulated, not relied upon to produce at an unrealistic clip, and he'll learn a Hell of a lot more playing NHL minutes--even 3rd line--than top-6 minutes in juniors.
If he earns it, let him stick. Find a way to dump Kunitz (do so regardless of Sprong, but still).
steveg
Registered User
I am not saying a thing about keeping Sprong in the NHL. I think he should get 9 games max, unless he absolutely, positively FORCES the team's hand, on merit, by his play on the ice. But, keeping him around, if he earned it, is nowhere as dumb as dumping Perron, IMO.
Yes.
Absolutely yes...
Corvidae
Registered User
- May 5, 2009
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He has the potential to be a total difference maker in a playoff series where Malkin/Sid/Kessel are getting hooked and molested. If you're going all in on offense, which they are, you keep Perron without any question.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Yeah I haven't been here long, but it seems like if you don't agree with something that the majority thinks, you get attacked viciously. I'm not even talking about my own personal experience (although that has happened once), I've noticed it all over HF.
Also to the above, Perron's offensive numbers in the playoffs do not support the idea that he'd be able to score if Crosby/Malkin/Kessel are getting shut down. He was a consistent playoff underachiever with the Blues, so I don't think saying that is very accurate.
Speaking Moistly
What a terrible image.
Losing him and seeing
Kunitz/Dupuis-Crosby-Kessel
Kunitz/Dupuis-Malkin-Hornqvist
Plotnikov-Bonino-Bennett (hah, he gets traded, too)
Cullen-Fehr-WBS
But 36, lazy and/or handless and with so-so skill > 27, skilled, hustling and skilled. - signed Bylsma, Shero and the Pittsburgh Penguins
Corvidae
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Playing Perron outside of the top 6 isn't heresy. Playing Kunitz or Dupuis in the top 6 instead of him is. And that's exactly what will happen if he's on the 3rd line. And playing him or Horn Dog on their lesser wing to accommodate Kunitz's rotting carcass is a fireable offense.
Corvidae
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Empoleon8771
Registered User
No I meant that as in it seems worse here. Like HF has an element of smugness that I don't see on many other hockey related forums.
Doesn't change the fact that the NHL is a faster paced game on a smaller rink that he will need to adjust to.
steveg
Registered User
I'd be perfectly willing to debate it with you; I thought that's what these boards were for! Like anything we say here matters, anyway...just a bunch of fans griping about our team.
My simple point is this -- if one is suggesting lineup ideas that do not include Perron in the top 6, then it seems that they are by default saying they are good with Kunitz in the top 6. But, even with him there (PUKE), there's STILL a LW slot open, so STILL no reason IMO that he shouldn't be playing L2 LW. He's as close as we have, IMO, to being exactly what is needed opposite Hornqvist on Malkin's line. If it turns out that Plots works better with Geno and Horny (I don't think he will), then FINE -- bump Kunitz to line 3 or 4, with Perron at L1 LW.
But any suggestion of placing our 2nd-most skilled winger, who also plays with hustle and some "jam" in his game, and keeping him out of the top-6, in favor of Kunitz...
Why would the team be better of doing this?
Pretty much this, yes. If we had four wings who truly meshed better with Crosby and Malkin, and were fortunate enough to have Perron be our 5th-best winger, then AWESOME. Play him on the third line. But, we don't. So, why?
Boocock
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- Feb 3, 2007
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There's nothing wrong with playing Sprong in the NHL this year if he proves he belongs to stay.
Kunitz - Crosby - Kessel
Perron - Malkin - Hornqvist
Bennett - Bonino - Sprong
Plotnikov - Cullen - Dupuis
That's a killer lineup to start the season, even if I'd rather see Kunitz and Plots switched. Build your PK around Cullen, Dupuis, Plotnikov, and maybe Crosby or Bennett (I think Bennett has some potential there - can't put my finger on it), and use Crosby - Kessel - Malkin - Hornqvist - Letang on PP1 & Bonino - Sprong - Perron - Kunitz - d-man on PP2. It could work.
When a coach outright comes out and says "some players go out to play the game; he goes out to make a difference", I'd say that player probably has a good shot of making the squad. Just sayin'.
Kunitz - Crosby - Kessel
Perron - Malkin - Hornqvist
Bennett - Bonino - Sprong
Plotnikov - Cullen - Dupuis
That's a killer lineup to start the season, even if I'd rather see Kunitz and Plots switched. Build your PK around Cullen, Dupuis, Plotnikov, and maybe Crosby or Bennett (I think Bennett has some potential there - can't put my finger on it), and use Crosby - Kessel - Malkin - Hornqvist - Letang on PP1 & Bonino - Sprong - Perron - Kunitz - d-man on PP2. It could work.
When a coach outright comes out and says "some players go out to play the game; he goes out to make a difference", I'd say that player probably has a good shot of making the squad. Just sayin'.
Nope, just dumb. Or more appropriately, Bylstarded.
Pretty much. We're going to win with offense, and Perron's better offensively than anyone not named Sid, Geno or Kessel. It's not exactly rocket science, but this team's got a history of making things 100x as difficult as they need to be.
It really is just absurd. You have a 27-year old, insanely skilled, hard-working LEFT WINGER--a position of damn near dire need--and you're going to play him on the RW on the third line.
Honestly, it's just craziness.
Depth doesn't mean **** if Sid and Geno's lines aren't chugging along; and they won't be with guys like Kunitz and Dupuis in top-6 LW roles.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
There are possibilities where Perron on the 3rd line makes sense. If Plotnikov would thrive as the physical guy with Crosby and Kessel and Bennett has great chemistry with Malkin and Hornqvist, where does Perron go? Do you bump one of those 2 down in the depth chart just because Perron is a top-6 winger?
steveg
Registered User
Here's a different way to put it. I'm a GM. It is 2015. I want to hire you as a coach. I tell you that I'm giving you Crosby, Malkin, and Bonino as your top 3 centers. I'm then giving you Kessel, Hornqvist, Perron, and Bennett as under-30 wingers, along with Plotnikov, as a first-year NHL-er. Then, you get two over-30 long-time Pens -- Kunitz and Dupuis, along with a couple of veteran forwards who are first-year Penguins -- Fehr and Cullen. Finally, I'm giving you a few rookies to choose from, including Sundqvist, Sprong, Rust, and Wilson.
Now, given that these are 2015 versions of these players, and given that you know their preferred side to play on, their recent histories, etc., I ask you to compose the best lineup you can.
Given all of that, tell me how in the world what you come up with as the best combination of players/lines, has Perron on his non-preferred side, on the third line, and Kunitz on the first line...
Now, given that these are 2015 versions of these players, and given that you know their preferred side to play on, their recent histories, etc., I ask you to compose the best lineup you can.
Given all of that, tell me how in the world what you come up with as the best combination of players/lines, has Perron on his non-preferred side, on the third line, and Kunitz on the first line...
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A 2nd and a 3rd iirc. No it wouldnt' have saved his career here, but it's hard to believe that he never once tried to do something like that for someone like that here.
Speaking Moistly
What a terrible image.
HF is people with the same opinion getting together and reinforcing that by driving other opinions away, it's the internet in a nutshell, like attracts like. You'll see discussion on minor differences but not big things, like the D pairings are open to discussion. HF has some strong opinions and relatively loose mods (it's a compliment, TWOP was insane and weird with some really disturbing consensuses that were psychotically protected) so it flourishes. It's also a huge site with some long term posters.
Thinking that Kunitz's age was a safer bet than Bennett's health was still stupid, it is what it is. There's differing opinions and then there's saying something ludicrous (See: Michael, so crazy), it's not always the same thing. I have opinions that there's no point in getting into because it's not worth the argument. It needs to be understood that not all ideas and opinions are good ones.
The board has also gone insane in the last while, idk why. The IQ points they're a droppin' and going straight to Bylsmo town. It started with people liking KCH, you know, the KCD redux with the same vulnerabilities and now we're trading Perron because Kuntiz is still good.
Kunitz is the pig and I couldn't easily find the airborne part where Bart tells Homer to let it go.
Letang?
It really is just absurd. You have a 27-year old, insanely skilled, hard-working LEFT WINGER--a position of damn near dire need--and you're going to play him on the RW on the third line.
Honestly, it's just craziness.
The lack of actual top 6 depth on the LW and good depth on the RW is what makes it so insane. They can have depth and still "stack" the top 6.
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