Post-Game Talk: Sad Storm

[mandiblesofdoom]

moneypuck is the jim cramer of rangers analysis

Moneypuck is funny ... they seem to hate the Rangers, yet earlier this year at one point they had NYR's chances much higher.

Also I can't forget last year ... they hated the Rangers going into the playoffs ... and they were right.

 

[Gardner McKay]

And I did state elimation games earlier, so what?

22 points in 29 games in such games. Woo! That's why we have all that hardware to brag about.


And my point still stands: the Lightning own us in the playoffs.

I'll drive the point even further: with Kreider on this team, we're also 0-2 against the Debbies in the playoffs.

The lightning owned everyone in the playoffs. That's what happens when you live in a state with no state income tax, you blatantly skirt the salary cap and have a guy sit all year just to come back for the playoffs, and your top picks turn out to be a HHOF Center and HHOF defenseman.

Water is wet. Grass is green. Sun is hot.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Is me, or was that arena 50% Rangers fans?

Last time I was in Tampa for a Rangers game was 2014 and back then it was at least 25% Rangers fans.

A buddy of mine that lives in between Tampa and Orlando said in the last year, four homes in his cul de sac have sold and all four were bought by families from NY

By 2030 it's going to be 85% Rangers fans at those games. It's such a nice arena, right on the water. If I lived in Tampa I'd be a season ticket holder for sure.

 

[Svenhart2008]

Lafgy has completed his transformation in looking like a NYC detective.

I love watching him play. I strongly believe in a couple years time he will be our top scorer.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Reading the whole Kreider discussion.

How did "game 7" even get mentioned when it was about goals in elimination games?

There are more elimination games than just game 7. You'd think Ranger fans of all people would know this since we're always trailing in the play-offs.

 

[Brutananadilewski]

That describes literally every player... ever. McDavid went through a slump so badly to start this season that even with 35 points in his last 15 games, he is 13 points behind the league leaders, and had 19 points in 13 games last year (meaning he had 140 in the other 69 games). I don't think anyone would say he's anything short of the best player in the world right now.

It's especially true for non-superstars. If there was consistency, they'd be superstars. Kreider is not. But he is probably the best forward the Rangers have ever drafted. At least in my lifetime.

Problem with your comparison: McD was injured early in the season, played through said injury, and the team was pretty much playing in such a way to get Woodcraft fired. He now only has 3 less points than Panarin (50), and that's with 4 less games played.

He has 6 seasons of getting at least 90 points, 5 seasons of at least 100. He also scored more goals in a season (64) than Kreider (52).

Even when not getting points, there are still other things that he does: skating/acceleration, making the defense look like Swiss cheese, zone entry.

If McDavid is somehow attached with the Rangers, there are no longer "untouchables" on this team.

Don't you know the onus is on Kreider to win games by himself.

Wasn't your schtick for the longest time that we can't win the Cup with Lundqvist?

 

[Dfence033]

Problem with your comparison: McD was injured early in the season, played through said injury, and the team was pretty much playing in such a way to get Woodcraft fired. He now only has 3 less points than Panarin (50), and that's with 4 less games played.

He has 6 seasons of getting at least 90 points, 5 seasons of at least 100. He also scored more goals in a season (64) than Kreider (52).

Even when not getting points, there are still other things that he does: skating/acceleration, making the defense look like Swiss cheese, zone entry.

If McDavid is somehow attached with the Rangers, there are no longer "untouchables" on this team.



Wasn't your schtick for the longest time that we can't win the Cup with Lundqvist?

That's not the problem with my comparison: it's the main feature. Even the inarguably best player of this generation, and in the conversation as one of the best ever after 600 games played, has been inconsistent. Even last year, when said player put up the best season most people on this site have ever seen personally, he had a month-long slump that was well below his normal. What you are asking of Kreider isn't achievable by the best of the best ever. It's just not a fair comparison given he's never been a superstar and anyone with those expectations were living on hope, not reality.

He's still the best forward the Rangers have drafted in my lifetime, which isn't short.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Problem with your comparison: McD was injured early in the season, played through said injury, and the team was pretty much playing in such a way to get Woodcraft fired. He now only has 3 less points than Panarin (50), and that's with 4 less games played.

He has 6 seasons of getting at least 90 points, 5 seasons of at least 100. He also scored more goals in a season (64) than Kreider (52).

Even when not getting points, there are still other things that he does: skating/acceleration, making the defense look like Swiss cheese, zone entry.

If McDavid is somehow attached with the Rangers, there are no longer "untouchables" on this team.



Wasn't your schtick for the longest time that we can't win the Cup with Lundqvist?

Lundqvist was our top player and a goalie. Kreider is a winger and probably our #5 player after Panarin, Zibanejad, Fox, and Shesterkin.

 

[Dfence033]

Lundqvist was our top player and a goalie. Kreider is a winger and probably our #5 player after Panarin, Zibanejad, Fox, and Shesterkin.

And was making 12% of the Rangers cap space... loved the guy, and he was the best goalie in the NHL for his career, but it's very difficult to win with 10%+ of your total cap space tied up in someone who plays ~65% of the regular season by design.

For comparison: if the cap does go up by the projected $4M, the same percentage salary for Igor would be $10.5M. Again, love having Igor, but have a hard time imagining any team winning while paying that to a goalie.

 

[Brutananadilewski]

That's not the problem with my comparison: it's the main feature. Even the inarguably best player of this generation, and in the conversation as one of the best ever after 600 games played, has been inconsistent. Even last year, when said player put up the best season most people on this site have ever seen personally, he had a month-long slump that was well below his normal. What you are asking of Kreider isn't achievable by the best of the best ever. It's just not a fair comparison given he's never been a superstar and anyone with those expectations were living on hope, not reality.

He's still the best forward the Rangers have drafted in my lifetime, which isn't short.

Give me McDavid's "inconsistency" everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

There's a reason why McDavid is a generational talent and why Krieder cracked above 60 points, once.

Lundqvist was our top player and a goalie. Kreider is a winger and probably our #5 player after Panarin, Zibanejad, Fox, and Shesterkin.

When the Rangers lost a series, you pilloried Lundy to hell and back. The odd thing from you lately come the post-season is you have said Shesty is no Lundy.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Give me McDavid's "inconsistency" everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

There's a reason why McDavid is a generational talent and why Krieder cracked above 60 points, once.



When the Rangers lost a series, you pilloried Lundy to hell and back. The odd thing from you lately come the post-season is you have said Shesty is no Lundy.

You can criticize a player and acknowledge he's an all time great. Also, maybe don't take everything said heat of the moment after a loss so seriously. Plus, I thought we were talking about Kreider.

 

[Dfence033]

Give me McDavid's "inconsistency" everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

There's a reason why McDavid is a generational talent and why Krieder cracked above 60 points, once.



When the Rangers lost a series, you pilloried Lundy to hell and back. The odd thing from you lately come the post-season is you have said Shesty is no Lundy.

That's precisely my point. You are willing to excuse inconsistency on a generational player, where the expectations are rightfully running away with the scoring trophy every year, but not on the Rangers first home grown top-line, non-generational winger in a lifetime.

Why would you expect more from Chris freaking Kreider than Connor McDavid?

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

He’s been producing more lately which is good but extending his point streak with a garbage time 2ndary 4 on 3 pp assist after being invisible all game is so Zibby

 

[Brutananadilewski]

You can criticize a player and acknowledge he's an all time great. Also, maybe don't take everything said heat of the moment after a loss so seriously. Plus, I thought we were talking about Kreider.

Then don't post melodrama and hyperbole after a loss, especially after a playoff exit.

That's precisely my point. You are willing to excuse inconsistency on a generational player, where the expectations are rightfully running away with the scoring trophy every year, but not on the Rangers first home grown top-line, non-generational winger in a lifetime.

Why would you expect more from Chris freaking Kreider than Connor McDavid?

I'm not the one who brought-up McDavid, and even when he's lackdastical in the point department, he's still noticeable with the puck. Look what he did to us in the last game, and it wasn't the first time he made our D look pedestrian. His skating, his strides is the cream of the crop even when he's not tallying points.

Yes, every player has ups and downs during the season, but Krieder has been inconsistent for how many years with us? Again, it's not a recent critique that people have mentioned he does not drive to the net as often as he should, that he doesn't utlilize that speed burst to his advantage as often, that when he's not doing anything, he really is not doing anything. How many games this season has he been invisible?

Again, not a recent critque lobbied his way, and of the two, Kreider can be, has been a black hole of an offensive player.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Then don't post melodrama and hyperbole after a loss, especially after a playoff exit.



I'm not the one who brought-up McDavid, and even when he's lackdastical in the point department, he's still noticeable with the puck. Look what he did to us in the last game, and it wasn't the first time he made our D look pedestrian. His skating, his strides is the cream of the crop even when he's not tallying points.

Yes, every player has ups and downs during the season, but Krieder has been inconsistent for how many years with us? Again, it's not a recent critique that people have mentioned he does not drive to the net as often as he should, that he doesn't utlilize that speed burst to his advantage as often, that when he's not doing anything, he really is not doing anything. How many games this season has he been invisible?

Again, not a recent critque lobbied his way, and of the two, Kreider can be, has been a black hole of an offensive player.

What the f*** do my Lundqvist posts have to do with Kreider?

 

[Dfence033]

Then don't post melodrama and hyperbole after a loss, especially after a playoff exit.



I'm not the one who brought-up McDavid, and even when he's lackdastical in the point department, he's still noticeable with the puck. Look what he did to us in the last game, and it wasn't the first time he made our D look pedestrian. His skating, his strides is the cream of the crop even when he's not tallying points.

Yes, every player has ups and downs during the season, but Krieder has been inconsistent for how many years with us? Again, it's not a recent critique that people have mentioned he does not drive to the net as often as he should, that he doesn't utlilize that speed burst to his advantage as often, that when he's not doing anything, he really is not doing anything. How many games this season has he been invisible?

Again, not a recent critque lobbied his way, and of the two, Kreider can be, has been a black hole of an offensive player.

Look, you are obviously set in your opinion, so this will be the last I say on the topic.

If Connor McDavid is allowed slumps and inconsistency as by far the best player in the world and best player period since minimum Mario Lemeiux, then your expectations cannot be higher for someone who lacks his generational talents. What your complaint is really about then, is not Kreider being inconsistent, it's that Kreider isn't a transcendent talent that even while slumping has the innate tools to bully teams.

Kreider and 99.999% of all players to ever lace up skates for an NHL game. And 100% of all players not named Gretzky, Lemieux, and a very, very select few others.

Doesn't matter if it's a "new" critique or not. It's a matter of realistic expectations. You are asking him to do things the best players in the history of the game could not and can not do. That's both massively out of touch with reality and massively unfair to Kreider, who has already done more than any objective person expected given his tools.

 

[IDvsEGO]

That's precisely my point. You are willing to excuse inconsistency on a generational player, where the expectations are rightfully running away with the scoring trophy every year, but not on the Rangers first home grown top-line, non-generational winger in a lifetime.

Why would you expect more from Chris freaking Kreider than Connor McDavid?

I mean the mcdavid inconsistency is something to excuse because its an anomoly. Kreider's inconsistency is the expectation.
Thats entirely the difference.
If Kreider played his "hot games" 90% of the time, he'd be a 50-60 goal scorer and would be looking at the top of all time ranger goals already.
If McDavid played as inconsistently as kreider, he'd be labeled a bust.

Thats not to say Kreider is a disappointment. Kreider was a first round pick, he wasn't labeled generational, or anything like that. He was 19th overall. You can't measure a 19th overall vs a 1st overall. Its not fair to either.

 

[Dfence033]

I mean the mcdavid inconsistency is something to excuse because its an anomoly. Kreider's inconsistency is the expectation.
Thats entirely the difference.
If Kreider played his "hot games" 90% of the time, he'd be a 50-60 goal scorer and would be looking at the top of all time ranger goals already.
If McDavid played as inconsistently as kreider, he'd be labeled a bust.

Thats not to say Kreider is a disappointment. Kreider was a first round pick, he wasn't labeled generational, or anything like that. He was 19th overall. You can't measure a 19th overall vs a 1st overall. Its not fair to either.

Is it though? I watch plenty of McDavid. His defensive efforts throughout the years were best described as "inconsistent." It's "something to excuse" because despite his inconsistency, McDavid has the skill to abuse any team he wants with regularity, and scores more than any player in modern history despite it.

Kreider's inconsistent as "expected," because for some reason, fans here wanted to see more in him than he had. It's not a "consistency" argument, as that falls apart immediately as I've shown. It's a "wish he was more skilled" argument. He's not. He's never been. But he's still the most valuable Rangers-drafted forward the franchise has had in 40+ years.

 

[gravey9]

A really big improvement for Laffy this season has been his subtle plays with the puck along the boards and at the top of the offensive zone. He's become quite adept at making simple maneuvers and drags to shield the puck and maintain possession and it's led to a lot of offensive chances for his line. Because he's playing on a line that plays faster, he's playing faster and more stout. And as a result, he's looking much bigger out there. Starting to see the power forward coming out in his game. He's got more levels to get to... which is exciting.

 

[pld459666]

Last time I was in Tampa for a Rangers game was 2014 and back then it was at least 25% Rangers fans.

A buddy of mine that lives in between Tampa and Orlando said in the last year, four homes in his cul de sac have sold and all four were bought by families from NY

By 2030 it's going to be 85% Rangers fans at those games. It's such a nice arena, right on the water. If I lived in Tampa I'd be a season ticket holder for sure.

I been there. Watched Tampa beat Toronto.

Very nice arena.

 

[MrPodz]

A really big improvement for Laffy this season has been his subtle plays with the puck along the boards and at the top of the offensive zone. He's become quite adept at making simple maneuvers and drags to shield the puck and maintain possession and it's led to a lot of offensive chances for his line. Because he's playing on a line that plays faster, he's playing faster and more stout. And as a result, he's looking much bigger out there. Starting to see the power forward coming out in his game. He's got more levels to get to... which is exciting.

I personally think the idea that the NHL isn't a developmental league is wrong. Yes, you train a lot in the off-season, and laf has found the balance as he has grown into a man where he is speedy but very strong on the boards and off the puck. He is adept at passes and laf and panarin are one of the highest passing x g duo.

I also think you pick up habits that your mentors teach you in any field really. Laf had to learn himself and not in crunch time last year because he was on a kid line. Now the coach provides a plan and laf knows where the components to execute the plan will be. It helps everyone.

I'll always be irked that we missed out/not there on generational forwards each year we picked in the top 10, but I support the team and seeing laf develop and acquire habits of a superstar like panarin is super exciting.

Kakko coming back will add a playmaker on a line where cuylle is a scorer and will generate rebounds. This means we need a scorer/ another play driver. I like Gourde or Lindholm, but I think going cheap is a tb move so get a contract year player in tommy Novak. You give a first and jones, but he has injury concerns. I think chytil makes an appearance in the playoffs

 

[2014nyr]

Moneypuck is funny ... they seem to hate the Rangers, yet earlier this year at one point they had NYR's chances much higher.

Also I can't forget last year ... they hated the Rangers going into the playoffs ... and they were right.

they always hate the rangers tho so most years they'll inevitably be right. they didn't have them sniffing the eastern finals 2 years ago tho

 

[IDvsEGO]

Look, you are obviously set in your opinion, so this will be the last I say on the topic.

If Connor McDavid is allowed slumps and inconsistency as by far the best player in the world and best player period since minimum Mario Lemeiux, then your expectations cannot be higher for someone who lacks his generational talents. What your complaint is really about then, is not Kreider being inconsistent, it's that Kreider isn't a transcendent talent that even while slumping has the innate tools to bully teams.

Kreider and 99.999% of all players to ever lace up skates for an NHL game. And 100% of all players not named Gretzky, Lemieux, and a very, very select few others.

Doesn't matter if it's a "new" critique or not. It's a matter of realistic expectations. You are asking him to do things the best players in the history of the game could not and can not do. That's both massively out of touch with reality and massively unfair to Kreider, who has already done more than any objective person expected given his tools.

This is where people miss the point.

Mcdavid's "slump" was still a ppg player.

 

[Dfence033]

I personally think the idea that the NHL isn't a developmental league is wrong. Yes, you train a lot in the off-season, and laf has found the balance as he has grown into a man where he is speedy but very strong on the boards and off the puck. He is adept at passes and laf and panarin are one of the highest passing x g duo.

I also think you pick up habits that your mentors teach you in any field really. Laf had to learn himself and not in crunch time last year because he was on a kid line. Now the coach provides a plan and laf knows where the components to execute the plan will be. It helps everyone.

I'll always be irked that we missed out/not there on generational forwards each year we picked in the top 10, but I support the team and seeing laf develop and acquire habits of a superstar like panarin is super exciting.

Kakko coming back will add a playmaker on a line where cuylle is a scorer and will generate rebounds. This means we need a scorer/ another play driver. I like Gourde or Lindholm, but I think going cheap is a tb move so get a contract year player in tommy Novak. You give a first and jones, but he has injury concerns. I think chytil makes an appearance in the playoffs

Why does everyone (not just Ranger fans) assume that a) Nashville will be selling pieces, especially a 26 year old coming off near PPG season, b) they'd take a really late 1st and a throw away defenseman for anyone?

There are multiple threads on the mains about Forsberg for a 2025 1st, a cap dump, and a 3rd, and Saros for Toronto or Edmontons garbage.

Do people not realize that Nashville is currently in playoff position? Lol

 

[egelband]

Brooks' opinions are whack but when it comes to whether something happened or didn't happen, he's usually well-informed.

Putting on my tinfoil hat, maybe the rangers are brewing up a ltir cap space acquisition and Chytil comes back for the playoffs. Not really ideal if Chytil is coming in cold but if he’s the third line center or something with an additional Lindholm type guy on the team as well, it might be a good gamble.