Speculation: Sabres Talk - Proposals, Speculation, Roster-shaping

[RattleYourSabre]

Do you have any idea how bad that would make Darcy look to his boss? That would basically be taking $24 million and lighting it on fire. Pegula can talk about digging new wells all he wants, but if an employee pisses $24 million away on nothing, that's a good way to earn your pink slip in any industry. Even if Pegula can deal with it, anyone with any pride in their job will do anything in their power to not let that happen.

So not helping the team is the best thing for the GM of the team? I don't know.

I mean, I see your point. And you're right. But pride shouldn't get in the way of getting the job done. But I think, given what you said, that Pegula would have to approach Darcy and say to him, "Look. We know Leino may have made a mistake. I will not judge your overall performance on this one instance. Buying him out is an option I'm open to. We need to avoid these mistakes in the future, because it was a mistake either way. Do what you feel is right."

Because if that doesn't happen, you're probably right.

 

[Tyler2829]

Leino almost has to be a buy out with the way he's played/been injured on this contract.

Those of you who know more than I do, any reason why we wouldn't buy him out?

He can't be bought out if he's injured.

 

[Zip15]

Given that there's a buyout period in summer 2014, as well, I think they'll wait on making that decision until then. I believe they want to give him another year to mesh with the roster.

 

[Jame]

Do you have any idea how bad that would make Darcy look to his boss? That would basically be taking $24 million and lighting it on fire. Pegula can talk about digging new wells all he wants, but if an employee pisses $24 million away on nothing, that's a good way to earn your pink slip in any industry. Even if Pegula can deal with it, anyone with any pride in their job will do anything in their power to not let that happen.

That's not how the big money teams look at it...

 

[Crazy Tasty]

That's not how the big money teams look at it...

Agreed, if management believes buying him out puts them in a better position to succeed and win, I have little doubt that's what will be done.

 

[SECRET SQUIRREL]

We will lose out on ROR and when it happens I am going to lose my mind. Darcy wont be willing to part with what it will take because he over values his assets and some other team that has an aggressive GM will pull it off. So ****ing frustrating knowing that's the case....

 

[stokes84]

That's not how the big money teams look at it...

We're not a big money team. We're just pretending to be one. And while Glen Sather has gotten away with some crazy deals in New York, I don't think that would fly virtually anywhere else, nor should it.

 

[RattleYourSabre]

We're not a big money team. We're just pretending to be one. And while Glen Sather has gotten away with some crazy deals in New York, I don't think that would fly virtually anywhere else, nor should it.

I think a strong argument could be made that not admitting your mistake and sticking with the mistake is actually more detrimental to you than moving on from the decision.

 

[SmurfInABlender]

Ok... local Avs and Sabres fan here. Question:

Since the Avs want a roster player and a prospect for RoR would Sabres fans think Ennis + Armia is too steep?

I'm still holding out that the Avs can pry Tyler Myers away but I know it will never happen because Sherman is a crappy GM. Would be fun to have my favorite Offensive player and Favorite Defensive Player switch teams.

 

[Deevo]

Ok... local Avs and Sabres fan here. Question:

Since the Avs want a roster player and a prospect for RoR would Sabres fans think Ennis + Armia is too steep?

I'm still holding out that the Avs can pry Tyler Myers away but I know it will never happen because Sherman is a crappy GM. Would be fun to have my favorite Offensive player and Favorite Defensive Player switch teams.

Sign me up for Ennis + Armia.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I could deal with that, but Ennis + Armia is probably too steep for Buffalo, but an equivalent value from another team is probably out there with a willing partner.

Of course, it's my opinion that it doesn't matter who Regier acquires until Ruff is replaced with a better coach.

 

[Presten]

Sign me up for Ennis + Armia.

Me too, in a heartbeat.

 

[Zip15]

We will lose out on ROR and when it happens I am going to lose my mind. Darcy wont be willing to part with what it will take because he over values his assets and some other team that has an aggressive GM will pull it off. So ****ing frustrating knowing that's the case....

I could deal with that, but Ennis + Armia is probably too steep for Buffalo, but an equivalent value from another team is probably out there with a willing partner.

Of course, it's my opinion that it doesn't matter who Regier acquires until Ruff is replaced with a better coach.

Yep, I'm just bracing myself for when I hear ROR to Ottawa for Silfverberg + Wiercioch + Bishop, or to Boston for Johnny Boychuk + Ryan Spooner, or to Montreal for Eller + Tinordi.

At which point, I will rise from my desk chair, slowly walk across my office, calmly close the door, draw the blinds, and proceed to kick over all office furniture and one-arm everything off my desk.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Ok... local Avs and Sabres fan here. Question:

Since the Avs want a roster player and a prospect for RoR would Sabres fans think Ennis + Armia is too steep?

I'm still holding out that the Avs can pry Tyler Myers away but I know it will never happen because Sherman is a crappy GM. Would be fun to have my favorite Offensive player and Favorite Defensive Player switch teams.

Personally, I wouldn't do it. We have enough trouble with secondary scoring as it is, and giving up 2 youngsters with those kind of offensive skills doesn't sit well with me. I'd do Ennis + a more defensive prospect (either Girgensons or a d-man, ie: McNabb, Pysyk) or Sekera + a forward prospect.

 

[stokes84]

People aren't seeing the dynamic here. ROR is asking for a contract that diminishes his value significantly and makes him a UFA at 26. Colorado is not going to get what they are asking for. Teams are not going to be willing to part with major assets to pay a player a contract that he hasn't earned.

If we traded Ennis, who has produced more and is on a FAR more flexible contract, AND Armia for ROR, it would be an absolute joke.

 

[Sabreality]

Yep, I'm just bracing myself for when I hear ROR to Ottawa for Silfverberg + Wiercioch + Bishop, or to Boston for Johnny Boychuk + Ryan Spooner, or to Montreal for Eller + Tinordi.

At which point, I will rise from my desk chair, slowly walk across my office, calmly close the door, draw the blinds, and proceed to kick over all office furniture and one-arm everything off my desk.

yeah, thats what I'm afraid of. I think Buffalo needs to start with Sekera & Armia, maybe add a 3rd sweetener and get a 2nd body/pick coming back.

 

[Zip15]

People aren't seeing the dynamic here. ROR is asking for a contract that diminishes his value significantly and makes him a UFA at 26. Colorado is not going to get what they are asking for. Teams are not going to be willing to part with major assets to pay a player a contract that he hasn't earned.

If we traded Ennis, who has produced more and is on a FAR more flexible contract, AND Armia for ROR, it would be an absolute joke.

Let me first say that the Ennis + Armia proposals are not acceptable to me, because we cannot lose that much offensive talent in one deal--I also believe Armia is a future 1st line winger and perennial 30-goal scorer (under the right coach), FWIW. Others think Armia will bust, so that deal may be more palatable for them.

But I would not be concerned about ROR wanting a deal that takes him to one year after his UFA eligibility--my understanding is he wanted a two-year deal (taking him to arbitration eligibility) for around $4.5m (unacceptable to COL b/c they didn't want to give him $1m more per than Duchene was getting), OR a five-year deal (purchasing one UFA year) for around what Benn got ($5.25m)--because if he's as helpful as many of us anticipate, Pegula will pay the man.

If we have to give up Ennis to get him, it'll sting, but I think I'd do it--I understand you wouldn't, and we'll agree to disagree. But if it must be Ennis going the other way, the class of defensive prospect I'm looking at is closer to the McCabe range than the McNabb/Pysyk range, and I'm sure as **** not doing Ennis + Armia.

 

[SabresFan26]

Start with Sekera add to that if need be.

 

[vcv]

Let me first say that the Ennis + Armia proposals are not acceptable to me, because we cannot lose that much offensive talent in one deal--I also believe Armia is a future 1st line winger and perennial 30-goal scorer (under the right coach), FWIW. Others think Armia will bust, so that deal may be more palatable for them.

But I would not be concerned about ROR wanting a deal that takes him to one year after his UFA eligibility--my understanding is he wanted a two-year deal (taking him to arbitration eligibility) for around $4.5m (unacceptable to COL b/c they didn't want to give him $1m more per than Duchene was getting), OR a five-year deal (purchasing one UFA year) for around what Benn got ($5.25m)--because if he's as helpful as many of us anticipate, Pegula will pay the man.

If we have to give up Ennis to get him, it'll sting, but I think I'd do it--I understand you wouldn't, and we'll agree to disagree. But if it must be Ennis going the other way, the class of defensive prospect I'm looking at is closer to the McCabe range than the McNabb/Pysyk range, and I'm sure as **** not doing Ennis + Armia.

Yeah I'd be weary of doing Ennis and Armia because of the lost offense.

Ennis + D prospect / Girgensons is a little easier to swallow because you have Armia coming in next year.

Sekera + Armia is also easier to swallow because you still have Ennis for secondary scoring.

If Stafford wasn't a total ball of suck this year, it might make it easier. V-H-P + Grigorenko+ROR+Good Stafford.

 

[Tyler2829]

Let me first say that the Ennis + Armia proposals are not acceptable to me, because we cannot lose that much offensive talent in one deal--I also believe Armia is a future 1st line winger and perennial 30-goal scorer (under the right coach), FWIW. Others think Armia will bust, so that deal may be more palatable for them.

But I would not be concerned about ROR wanting a deal that takes him to one year after his UFA eligibility--my understanding is he wanted a two-year deal (taking him to arbitration eligibility) for around $4.5m (unacceptable to COL b/c they didn't want to give him $1m more per than Duchene was getting), OR a five-year deal (purchasing one UFA year) for around what Benn got ($5.25m)--because if he's as helpful as many of us anticipate, Pegula will pay the man.

If we have to give up Ennis to get him, it'll sting, but I think I'd do it--I understand you wouldn't, and we'll agree to disagree. But if it must be Ennis going the other way, the class of defensive prospect I'm looking at is closer to the McCabe range than the McNabb/Pysyk range, and I'm sure as **** not doing Ennis + Armia.

Agreed. The difference between Ennis and O'Reilly is not one of our top prospects.

 

[Jame]

Ennis AND Armia would sting...

I'd still do it... Obviously, I'd rather do Ennis + a D prospect.

 

[Jame]

People aren't seeing the dynamic here. ROR is asking for a contract that diminishes his value significantly and makes him a UFA at 26. Colorado is not going to get what they are asking for. Teams are not going to be willing to part with major assets to pay a player a contract that he hasn't earned.

If we traded Ennis, who has produced more and is on a FAR more flexible contract, AND Armia for ROR, it would be an absolute joke.

Actually, you're the one missing the dynamics. All you seem to recognize is offensive production. Completely oblivious to the massive hole that Oreilly would fill... while we have an asset developing to replace Ennis' secondary scoring. Your bias blinds you to the dynamics in regards to Buffalo

 

[Zman5778]

Ennis AND Armia would sting...

I'd still do it... Obviously, I'd rather do Ennis + a D prospect.

Agreed. ROR is exactly what this team needs, and he still has untapped offensive abilities.

Won't happen, but it's nice to dream.

 

[stokes84]

Actually, you're the one missing the dynamics. All you seem to recognize is offensive production. Completely oblivious to the massive hole that Oreilly would fill... while we have an asset developing to replace Ennis' secondary scoring. Your bias blinds you to the dynamics in regards to Buffalo

Considering Ennis is the ONLY scoring we have outside of our top line, offensive production is a massive hole which would only get bigger. We have an asset developing what O'Reilly brings as well, so that argument falls flat.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Considering Ennis is the ONLY scoring we have outside of our top line, offensive production is a massive hole which would only get bigger. We have an asset developing what O'Reilly brings as well, so that argument falls flat.

The issue is you have no idea if Girgs will develop anywhere near the offense that ROR brings...in fact he brings about the same offense as Ennis but with a substantial increase in the defensive aspect of the game. The only thing Ennis has more than ROR is the speed and dynamic element he brings to the table. I'd prefer to keep both but I'd gladly move Ennis to get ROR.