OT: s o f t players d i s c u s s i o n

[notbias]

Oddly enough, I didn't say it was the norm. All I was doing was responding to someone who said Matthews had more in these playoffs.

No one sad that... can you quote the post?

I hope it wasn't this: "The blocked shots and hit leader for our forwards in the playoffs, I 100% agree."

That does not mean these playoffs.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I was convinced that Liljegren would get more votes than Nylander.

 

[conFABulator]

Tossing out hollow hits as a stat line to paint a picture that Matthews isn't soft is like saying Babe Ruth understood the art of bunting... it's completely irrelevant and a major stretch. Ironically, it only comes up after he no-shows in the playoffs and fans feel the need to defend him at all costs.

To be completely honest, Matthews doesn't have enough dawg or grime in his game to be effective physically. He should laser focus on scoring goals, fighting for position, and elevating his game in the playoffs... that should be his only mission at this point.

We don't need him to be a watered-down Chris Gratton physically or a wannabe Joel Otto defensively. We need him to score, and score a lot, when it matters. One job.

He's definitely near the softest Leaf... maybe the softest. Heck, I have him 1-2 with Marner. Flip a coin. In Marner's defense, he's small and rail thin... maybe 180 with rocks in his pocket... I don't care what NHL.com says. But Auston is what... 6-3 and a solid 220?

And, yes, he got tossed around by Stamkos who is another offensive-minded scorer and a far cry from Brady Tkachuk, lol. Here's the thing, physicality shouldn't even be an issue with Matthews. Nobody cared that Bossy and Lafleur didn't play the body... because they scored oodles of goals with playoff games on the line.

But the softness Matthews possesses is more than not being able to beat Stamkos in a fight or hit like Lindros... he appears to be mentally soft and has no extra gear, burning desire to win, or hatred of losing. Crosby and MacKinnon aren't Messier and Neely either but they are filled with intensity and passion and are fueled by hating to lose. This is what we need to see from Matthews... forget about the bogus hit counts on Hockeydb.

I see. That stats don't support the "dawg" narrative so let's not allow those into any discussion.

I am done here. What else can I tell you? Please tell me why Liljegren, Nylander, Marner, and Robertson are less soft than him.

That was my point.

 

[647Hockey]

Hands down MM.

How often do you ever see this guy along the boards scrumming for pucks, in front of the net, or dishing out hits/getting hit?

He's a perimeter player who can zip around and pass. Thats his game. Love or hate him, he does consistently get points (in reg season at least). A solid 90-100 pt player if he plays 80 games.

 

[Menzinger]

Remember the two times Nylander took exception this past season and initiated a scrum?

And then he gets into Matthews and marner's face on the bench?

Someone find out what he ate those days and feed it to ...

I think Nylander has a more competitive attitude than the other guys, it just doesn't necessarily manifest itself into how many folks would want (is more aggressive physicality)

 

[ACC1224]

I see. That stats don't support the "dawg" narrative so let's not allow those into any discussion.

I am done here. What else can I tell you? Please tell me why Liljegren, Nylander, Marner, and Robertson are less soft than him.

That was my point.

It’s probably his size. He’s pretty soft for his size.

 

[conFABulator]

It’s probably his size. He’s pretty soft for his size.

Actually it is probably people's inability to read and that they want to hate on a player.

This thread was about who is Toronto's softest player, not who is the softest per capita or who do we wish were tougher than they are.

There is zero chance that Matthews is the softest or even top three. That was the comment I made, that and that this thread was a terrible idea and only exists so people can complain about the softness of our star players.

Turns out I was correct on both counts.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Yup, Dubas saw Kadri's passion and competitive spirit and couldnt have it on his team. First sign Dubas has really never been in organized sports. Reality is he shouldve been looking for more players like Kadri, instead of less.

Downgrading from Kadri to Tavares probably cost us several playoffs series.

 

[ACC1224]

Actually not probably people's inability to read and that they want to hate on a player.

This thread was about who in Toronto's softest player, not who is the soft er per capita or who do we wish were tougher than they are.

There is zero chance that Matthews is rh softest or even top three. That was the comment I made, that and that this thread was a terrible idea and only exists so people can complain about the softness of our syar players.

Turns out I was correct on both counts.

Dumb thread no doubt but that doesn’t change my opinion.

 

[conFABulator]

Dumb thread no doubt but that doesn’t change my opinion.

I believe your opinion is that Marner is soft and that for his size, Matthews is disappointingly soft.

I might agree with both of those.

I only weighed into this when someone said Matthews was the softest. I believe my initial response was that this was "ridiculous".

Again, this post was never anything more than a vehicle for people to complain about Matthews and Marner. We have enough of those.

Yes, we have enough threads where we complain about about Richard and Hart Winning player that has got better every year he has been here and that played through injury these past playoffs, winning is one game single handedly. Also ridiculous

 

[Arzak]

Hands down MM.

How often do you ever see this guy along the boards scrumming for pucks, in front of the net, or dishing out hits/getting hit?

He's a perimeter player who can zip around and pass. Thats his game. Love or hate him, he does consistently get points (in reg season at least). A solid 80-99 pt player if he plays 80 games.

Fixed it for you.

Also, I can see Mitch crumble this season. With the contract drama, this whole season will be playoff level of stress for him. I can see him anywhere from 50-90 points.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

Matthews also turned water into wine, don't forget that.

 

[conFABulator]

Matthews also turned water into wine, don't forget that.

Actually, he turned something much worse than water into wine. Can a person be credited for turning piss into wine?

11 years before Matthews arrival = missed the playoffs ten times and the one time they did make it was a lockout shortened season where many thought we were trending to miss the playoffs had the season gone any longer.

Eight season since Matthews arrival = made the playoffs eight times. Every year. The longest active streak in the NHL.

That feels like piss into wine for me. Piss into champagne is when we reach the finals or win a cup I guess.

 

[Antropovsky]

Downgrading from Kadri to Tavares probably cost us several playoffs series.

I Recall Kadri once said he was as talented as Tavares or something to that effect. I saw glimpses where I believed it was possible too. However, he wasnt consistent offensively and was with unskilled linemates. Often put in a checking line role by Babcock which limited his offensive opportunities. We all know what happened when Colorado acquired him and gave him more opportunities.

Naturally you'd want to put some blame on the coach for not seeing Kadri's offensive potential. However, I think the opposite is true with Babs. He might be a dick, but he nurtured Kadri and saw his potential his competitiveness. Babs once said that he puts Kadri in a checking role vs oppositions best players because it sparks Kadri, because Kadri likes to compete against the best.

I entirely blame Dubas for this entire mess, he had no clue what NHL winners looked like. He looked at players like a kid playing GM mode jn NHL 2017; making acqusitions bases only on skill. On the other hand, Patrick Roy - a former player notorious for his competitive spirit, didn't like coaching Barrie and wanted him traded. Is there anybody what a NHL winning personalities look like more than Roy? Not many. Certainly not 30ish, no hockey career Dubas. Babcock wanted nothing to do with Barrie either and one of his pet players, Kadri, was sent away for him.

Personally, I think if Babcock had a say, Hyman and kadri wouldve been signed long term on what wouldve been team friendly deals. Both players loved Toronto.

Babcock was a dick, but he, like Roy has been around pro sport teams enough to spot a winner. People point out that Babs was a "dick" to Marner... however, his approach worked for Marner. It was after he left...where Marner slowly progressed to his current "Im a god and dont play in physical areas" attitude. It wouldnt have gotten to this point with Babs. Anyways...i could go on forever. But this team was an embarrassment of riches before 30 year old, no hockey background, Dubas got his hands on it. Not anymore, borderline back to Muskoka 5 now.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Eight season since Matthews arrival = made the playoffs eight times. Every year. The longest active streak in the NHL.

That feels like piss into wine for me. Piss into champagne is when we reach the finals or win a cup I guess.

Yeah he's been great.

Matthews has put up 169 goals in 3 seasons. Will any Leafs player ever do that again ?

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Yeah he's been great.

Matthews has put up 169 goals in 3 seasons. Will any Leafs player ever do that again ?

It looks great on a hockey card and perhaps it sells jerseys. You can win a regular season hockey pool behind Matthews.

Matthews real legacy is closer to Vaive's: wasted talent/wasted years. Also loser.

 

[Antropovsky]

Hands down MM.

How often do you ever see this guy along the boards scrumming for pucks, in front of the net, or dishing out hits/getting hit?

He's a perimeter player who can zip around and pass. Thats his game. Love or hate him, he does consistently get points (in reg season at least). A solid 90-100 pt player if he plays 80 games.

Yep... additionally what leader makes excuses after series losses? Marner has a list of excuses each year.

He really had golden quotes in his recent interview, in addition to the god quote he had this to say when asked why the core deserves another chance:

"ummmm because we're great players and we know its not easy to win the Stanley Cup, we know that and everyone knows that.... its 7 games, and its an all out war out there every single game, its never gonna get easier. Challenges build adversity and weve been through alot of thst and its only gonna make us better"

Also..somebody needs to let him know that just one round is 7 games. It might shock him to find thst out.

I dont care if Marner actually performs amazing somewhere else... he is what is wrong with this teams culture. He was made a face of this organization and given an A. All he does is whine, cry and make excuses like a 12 year old. Combine this with his dancing, mickey mouse shirts, big hats and class clown antics and hes just become unbearable. Jeez... its okay boys! Its hard to win the stanley cup, see you next year! This is not the attitude of a winner or a leader.

Meanwhile Mackinnon a few years ago seemed tired of making excuses, when a reporter asked if there was next year:
"we can always talk about next year..I mean thats all we talk about I feel like. I mean im going into my 9th year and I havent won $%#^...".

Weve heard alot about Tavares having his C stripped, im curious to see if the person whose letter is stripped is actually Marner. He reallys isnt a player you want players to look to at times of adversity. It would be a good step to take the A from him, and stop handing things to players that they didnt earn.

 

[Racer88]

Matthews also turned water into wine, don't forget that.

I thought Marner was the God?

 

[DuklaNation]

Having 1 guy who's really soft isn’t a huge problem. Its that the roster has a lot of soft guys, that's definitely a problem.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

It looks great on a hockey card and perhaps it sells jerseys. You can win a regular season hockey pool behind Matthews.

Matthews real legacy is closer to Vaive's: wasted talent/wasted years. Also loser.

Way too early to come to any conclusions.

 

[socko]

Having 1 guy who's really soft isn’t a huge problem. Its that the roster has a lot of soft guys, that's definitely a problem.

Just getting rid of Huberdeau seemed to do a lot for Florida. 1 really soft guy. Florida still has some guys who could be called soft: Barkov for example. But that 1 trade changed the team.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Way too early to come to any conclusions.

Maybe, but 8 years is not early.

The average for most NHLers is 5.6 years (those that were drafted in the 1st round).

 

[Maple Leaf]

Marner was saying the leaf fans are nutty and he is right

 

[Arzak]

I believe your opinion is that Marner is soft and that for his size, Matthews is disappointingly soft.

I might agree with both of those.

I only weighed into this when someone said Matthews was the softest. I believe my initial response was that this was "ridiculous".

Again, this post was never anything more than a vehicle for people to complain about Matthews and Marner. We have enough of those.

Yes, we have enough threads where we complain about about Richard and Hart Winning player that has got better every year he has been here and that played through injury these past playoffs, winning is one game single handedly. Also ridiculous

The softness Mitch exhibits is infectious, others might inspire teammates by their willingness to sacrifice themselves for the team, and others turn a big C in teddy bears.

 

[HolyCrap]

Marner was saying the leaf fans are nutty and he is right

By the looks of things he was talking about his fans not Leaf’s fans.