Confirmed with Link: Ryan McLeod & Ty Tullio traded to Buffalo for Matthew Savoie

[jc17]

I was pointing out that comp'ing him to Malenstyn isn't fair to Malenstyn - Beck was one of the most skewed d-zone deployments in the league and that wasn't what McLeod drew. The Malenstyn thread goes into it more but it is Housley using Larsson only harder, more on par with how the Preds used Gaustad honestly.

Right, but it sort of sounded like you were invalidating RefsIdeas' post by suggesting it was unreasonable to expect McLeod's deployment numbers to reflect Malenstyn's, when it was the original post that made it sound like Mcleod's job was akin to Larsson's or Malenstyn's.

That might not be what you meant, but that's how I initially interpreted it.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Character*
*unless you're Mitchell Miller

I did write that what decisions the GM and director of scouting make notwithstanding….

 

[Chainshot]

Right, but it sort of sounded like you were invalidating RefsIdeas' post by suggesting it was unreasonable to expect McLeod's deployment numbers to reflect Malenstyn's, when it was the original post that made it sound like Mcleod's job was akin to Larsson's or Malenstyn's.

That might not be what you meant, but that's how I initially interpreted it.

No, trying to pump the brakes on the idea that McLeod had that sort of disproportionate use.

 

[HOOats]

Re: valuation, I wonder how far Adams and Co. had Neuchev behind Savoie in the org depth chart of scoring wings (disclaimer: I don't think Savoie and Neuchev are equals as prospects). They do share some traits though: speed/skating, tight handles, dual threat shot/set-up, puck pursuit.

We all know the story of how Forton had a first-round grade on Neuchev in the same draft as Savoie. Neuchev is only two months older and had a nice rookie AHL season considering he was coming overseas. Excellent 5v5/60 scoring (can't find that chart comparing him favorably to Lambert, if anyone has it). +10 and only 8 PIM. I imagine the FO remains very high on him.

This isn't coping with the trade. Only noting that most conversations about crowding and expendability don't include the deeper prospects. We have so many quality guys trailing behind the Kulich/Rosen/Ostlund/Wahlberg group that a few of them will hit to varying degrees and factor in to future rosters.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Lol, this is just revisionist history. If you had asked anybody on the Sabres board pre-trade if they'd trade Savoie for McLeod - they'd laugh you off. If you truly think otherwise, you're delusional.

That's what I mean about narratives shifting. The trade happens, and people try and justify it. I like to stay consistent to what I think, regardless of what the Sabres do.

Except the main board thread where Sabres fans were down for trading for McLeod with our first.

And also, the narrative shifting is something you made up in your head considering the “if you had asked…l portion of your post (the pre-trade narrative) did NOT occur. It’s in your imagination. Don’t come here telling the forum they shifted the narrative and the only way that makes sense is if you conjure up something.

Plenty of people were very very happy with the idea of trading away prospects and assets for a 3C. It happened. They are happy. Narrative consistent there

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Not really. ROR was essentially traded for 0 value. Two cap dumps were covered by pick+Thompson but zero payment for ROR.

This trade is miles better. Trading Savoie for Pageau would have been closer to ROR-level.

He was referring to the thread quality not the trade quality.

 

[debaser66]

You're right we didn't miss the playoffs last year because of a bad 3C .. we had a very good one. But when he was traded we now had a very bad one...and even if Tage and Dylan rebound we probably don't make it with Krebs centering 3rd line and moving up to center 2 if Tage or Dylan is hurt

Not to derail but I want to clarify that Mitts was more of a 1C/2C than 3C for us since the end of 22/23 he had the highest points 5v5 of all or C.
But thats done, I wanna see what Mcloed can do, glad they did something and not stick with Krebs.

 

[debaser66]

It has potential to be the new O'Reilly to St. Louis thread.

I see hyperbole negative postings and making fun of those as just a different side of the same coin.

 

[5 14 6 1]

Hi Sabres fans, enjoy McLeod. Heard today on local radio that the trade was offered by Adams. Sounds like McLeod was targeted and Edmonton given an option of a few of the players from the 2022 draft, Edmonton snapped up Savoie.

McLeod as elite as a skater as you will find. Truly blazing speed. Questionable offensive IQ and finish. Will make some nice plays now and then. Great on PK with his tracking and skating. Quite soft physically and was pushed out of many playoff games. I wonder about his offensive upside as majority of his points this year came from being paired with Draisaitl. He is a puck transporter from D zone to O zone but someone else needs to do the work once the puck gets there. He pushes puck the right way which has value. Either way he is a net positive player who will frustrate you because his size and elite skating makes you want just a bit more.

Cheers, and rooting for you guys out east

 

[5 14 6 1]

Also keep in mind that one potential reason for McL's offensive numbers is that it wasn't his job. His job was to get the puck from his end and generate an offensive faceoff, then get off the ice.

Eh, I hate to be that guy, but don't hold your breath. He never put up big numbers in junior either. I hope to be surprised!

 

[Beerz]

Not to derail but I want to clarify that Mitts was more of a 1C/2C than 3C for us since the end of 22/23 he had the highest points 5v5 of all or C.
But thats done, I wanna see what Mcloed can do, glad they did something and not stick with Krebs.

I would agree..

 

[TheMistyStranger]

Eh, I hate to be that guy, but don't hold your breath. He never put up big numbers in junior either. I hope to be surprised!

I didn't quote it but was referring more to his analytics numbers instead of strictly points. I think there's better hdsc numbers, for example, in his future.

 

[TageGod]

Sorry but why is this a "present value conversation" only? Are we not allowed to take circumstances and speculate about the future on these boards anymore?

Because the bias of why they like it is the "better now", fill holes, and make the playoffs mentality. From their perspective they are happy even though we lost on value. That is why I am saying present value because they are basically saying forget what it looks like long term.

We still need that top 6 btw, Savoie should have been part of that.

Idk why you thought I said no one is allowed to speculate on the long-term trade.

 

[TageGod]

This just in, most Stars aren't stuck in the WHL. That chart assumes he sucks and hasn't deserved a chance at the roster. His ONLY opportunity to play he got injured. Did the model take that into account?

 

[BFLO]

just because your depth pushed a player down doesn't mean that is their capabilities.
Example John Tavares was Canada's 4th line center at Sochi is his career average skill that of a 4th liner? no.

And just because Buffalo's lack of depth pushes a player further up the lineup doesn't mean that is their capabilities. Example: Joki as a top 4D. He has the skill of a bottom pairing dman but has been top 4 his entire 5 years in Buffalo.

McLeod being a huge upgrade on our 3c situation does not mean he's a 3c league wide. It just means our center situation was dire.

 

[Chainshot]

Re: valuation, I wonder how far Adams and Co. had Neuchev behind Savoie in the org depth chart of scoring wings (disclaimer: I don't think Savoie and Neuchev are equals as prospects). They do share some traits though: speed/skating, tight handles, dual threat shot/set-up, puck pursuit.

We all know the story of how Forton had a first-round grade on Neuchev in the same draft as Savoie. Neuchev is only two months older and had a nice rookie AHL season considering he was coming overseas. Excellent 5v5/60 scoring (can't find that chart comparing him favorably to Lambert, if anyone has it). +10 and only 8 PIM. I imagine the FO remains very high on him.

This isn't coping with the trade. Only noting that most conversations about crowding and expendability don't include the deeper prospects. We have so many quality guys trailing behind the Kulich/Rosen/Ostlund/Wahlberg group that a few of them will hit to varying degrees and factor in to future rosters.

20-year old rookies in the AHL (Edit) at 5-on-5 this year:

 

[TageGod]

Not to derail but I want to clarify that Mitts was more of a 1C/2C than 3C for us since the end of 22/23 he had the highest points 5v5 of all or C.
But thats done, I wanna see what Mcloed can do, glad they did something and not stick with Krebs.

I just want to clarify, he was actually our 3C who happened to have a good year when the other two struggled. One of which was injured,

The saving grace for me is that as much as I liked Savoie, I equally hated Krebs at 3C....

 

[RefsIdeas]

Except the main board thread where Sabres fans were down for trading for McLeod with our first.

And also, the narrative shifting is something you made up in your head considering the “if you had asked…l portion of your post (the pre-trade narrative) did NOT occur. It’s in your imagination. Don’t come here telling the forum they shifted the narrative and the only way that makes sense is if you conjure up something.

Plenty of people were very very happy with the idea of trading away prospects and assets for a 3C. It happened. They are happy. Narrative consistent there

Is there a thread where we’re down to trade him with our first before the trade?

I can’t seem to find it. I might just not be searching properly though.

This is all I see: Value of: - Ryan McLeod

Thread from this season where it seems like people think his value is near 0.

As far as narrative shifting though…

 

[nally]

I like the addition of McLeod. He has good advanced stats and he'll easily be our best faceoff center.

I do not like the price.

Especially because EDM was over the cap and needed to shed salary. How do you still overpay by this much when the other team is being forced to trade away players to get under the salary cap?

People grew to hate Murray for pissing away so many assets in trades.

Adams just traded pick #43 for a 4th liner and our best prospect(pick #9 three years ago)for a 3rd liner.

Adams is like a fire hose of pissing away value so far. Imagine how much he'd overpay for an actual big acquisition?

I think the feeling on the Oilers side is that E.Kane will likely be an LTIR play for much of the year, if not all of the regular season. That takes away a lot of the leverage for making a deal to shed salary. Just a thought.

 

[Willgamesh]

And just because Buffalo's lack of depth pushes a player further up the lineup doesn't mean that is their capabilities. Example: Joki as a top 4D. He has the skill of a bottom pairing dman but has been top 4 his entire 5 years in Buffalo.

McLeod being a huge upgrade on our 3c situation does not mean he's a 3c league wide. It just means our center situation was dire.

Would you like to rank the 3 C's above him? I'm pretty sure you will find out hes a 3c

 

[Jimmybarndoor2]

I was shocked at the Sabres trading Savoie. I had thought that he was our top prospect not in the nhl.

I hope McCloud was the targeted player by the Sabres for the 3C position

Savoie grew up as a fan of the oilers so am happy for him

I hope mccloud will be what the Sabres need

 

[Beerz]

Is there a thread where we’re down to trade him with our first before the trade?

I can’t seem to find it. I might just not be searching properly though.

This is all I see: Value of: - Ryan McLeod

Thread from this season where it seems like people think his value is near 0.

As far as narrative shifting though…View attachment 893548

I can't even take you seriously now when you don't have this site on Darkmode.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Is there a thread where we’re down to trade him with our first before the trade?

I can’t seem to find it. I might just not be searching properly though.

This is all I see: Value of: - Ryan McLeod

Thread from this season where it seems like people think his value is near 0.

As far as narrative shifting though…View attachment 893548

FWIW I'm on record before the draft saying this year's pick should be more valuable thsn one of our top prospects.

Turned out that prospect was Savoie...

 

[joshjull]

I just want to clarify, he was actually our 3C who happened to have a good year when the other two struggled. One of which was injured,

The saving grace for me is that as much as I liked Savoie, I equally hated Krebs at 3C....

No he was the top center. Not because he was the best but because of circumstances. He played more 5v5 than Tage or Cozens. 3C’s don’t do that.

 

[Panthaz89]

Is this made up facts because history shows most picks outside the top two are hardly guaranteed to play now....look at the 2022 draft now....pretty much everybody except Mintyukov has hardly even done anything beyond the top 5 or had a few games at most. Mitts took how long to be good player in the NHL?