Speculation: Ryan Johansen "Softly in play"

[Nanabijou]

I just don't see the organization in the same dire straits as some of the posts in this thread. All is not lost. The pipeline looks really strong. The team has some holes but there's more offense on this team than they are showing and that will figure itself out.

It's true that Jarmo underestimated the step forward that some of our young D were going to take to the start the year but he's not painted into the corner that seems to be the consensus of many of the last few posts.

Now, as to Joey, I still think the organization should watch and observe how things go this season and make a decision this summer whether they are staking this franchise on him. I'm still not sure myself where this is going to go.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

I just don't see the organization in the same dire straits as some of the posts in this thread. All is not lost. The pipeline looks really strong. The team has some holes but there's more offense on this team than they are showing and that will figure itself out.

It's true that Jarmo underestimated the step forward that some of our young D were going to take to the start the year but he's not painted into the corner that seems to be the consensus of many of the last few posts.

Now, as to Joey, I still think the organization should watch and observe how things go this season and make a decision this summer whether they are staking this franchise on him. I'm still not sure myself where this is going to go.

I don't think we are as bad our record says, but at the same time, I don't think we are good as the talking heads say.

The truth, as they say, is somewhere in the middle.

 

[pete goegan]

I just don't see the organization in the same dire straits as some of the posts in this thread. All is not lost. The pipeline looks really strong. The team has some holes but there's more offense on this team than they are showing and that will figure itself out.

It's true that Jarmo underestimated the step forward that some of our young D were going to take to the start the year but he's not painted into the corner that seems to be the consensus of many of the last few posts.

Now, as to Joey, I still think the organization should watch and observe how things go this season and make a decision this summer whether they are staking this franchise on him. I'm still not sure myself where this is going to go.

This is pretty much where I am, too, Nana.

 

[Viqsi]

This narrative is bull for the umpteen millionth time. Nashville has drafted exactly 1 C in the first round since 1998 and that was David Legwand in 1998.

Would you prefer I cite Atlanta/Winnipeg instead? They've tried five times (Stefan, Slater, Little (drafted as a RW, but, meh), Burmistrov, Scheifele) over fifteen years (six and sixteen years if you count Roslovic this year), altho Scheifele might end up working out in the end. Maybe. By comparison with Joey he's certainly already well behind schedule.

* * *​

I just don't see the organization in the same dire straits as some of the posts in this thread. All is not lost. The pipeline looks really strong. The team has some holes but there's more offense on this team than they are showing and that will figure itself out.

It's true that Jarmo underestimated the step forward that some of our young D were going to take to the start the year but he's not painted into the corner that seems to be the consensus of many of the last few posts.

Now, as to Joey, I still think the organization should watch and observe how things go this season and make a decision this summer whether they are staking this franchise on him. I'm still not sure myself where this is going to go.

While I agree with the current state of our assets, I am not convinced any longer of the front office's competence to handle cap management issues going forward.

 

[We Want Ten]

Would you prefer I cite Atlanta/Winnipeg instead? They've tried five times (Stefan, Slater, Little (drafted as a RW, but, meh), Burmistrov, Scheifele) over fifteen years (six and sixteen years if you count Roslovic this year), altho Scheifele might end up working out in the end. Maybe. By comparison with Joey he's certainly already well behind schedule.

That's fine, if you don't understand why I think using Nashville as a reference is bad, then so be it I guess. I don't necessarily disagree with your point, just your example.

For the record, Columbus has drafted Brule, Johansen, Wennberg and Brassard in the first during their existence...

Also you forgot Daultan Leveille... not that it helps ha.

 

[CBJx614]

That's fine, if you don't understand why I think using Nashville as a reference is bad, then so be it I guess. I don't necessarily disagree with your point, just your example.

For the record, Columbus has drafted Brule, Johansen, Wennberg and Brassard in the first during their existence...

Also you forgot Daultan Leveille... not that it helps ha.

two of which are more than capable top 6 centers, heck both are top 60 in the league.

 

[Viqsi]

two of which are more than capable top 6 centers, heck both are top 60 in the league.

Johansen's a #1C. Brassard isn't. Wennberg isn't there yet and may never be. Brule doesn't have an NHL career anymore; heck, he might be retired by now.

The point being, finding a replacement is not trivial, and making plans based on that gamble is a sucker's bet.

 

[blahblah]

Johansen's a #1C. Brassard isn't. Wennberg isn't there yet and may never be. Brule doesn't have an NHL career anymore; heck, he might be retired by now.

The point being, finding a replacement is not trivial, and making plans based on that gamble is a sucker's bet.

Sure. Let's just plan on over paying a player that may not be able to take us to the next level because we don't have a better option. We have plenty of cap space to throw 9+ million at a said player.

Ridiculous.

Seriously, I hope he improves. But I'm pretty tired of hearing the whole "Let's not do anything about an issue because the other option may or may not be better". Seriously how many times can we do the wrong thing because we're scared that we may do may not be end up being the right thing?

I'm not hearing "We have to pay him because he's a top five center in the league". I'm hearing "We have to keep him because Wennberg (or someone else) might not be a #1 center. It took us forever to get someone decent, so we just have to keep him.".

This is like the whole Howson and Todd Richards debate all over again with the same people living in absolute fear of the unknown.

If Johansen is playing at this level and he and his agent asks for 6.5 a year, go for it. If he's asking for 9+, at his current level, trade him otherwise you are going to hurt this franchise for a long, long time. This is starting to smell like a contract year high level performance with 8 years of coasting after that.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

I hope Jarmo plays hardball in the next round of negotiations again

If Joey wants $8M plus, do you give that to him without flinching?

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I hope Jarmo plays hardball in the next round of negotiations again

If Joey wants $8M plus, do you give that to him without flinching?

He's obviously not going to get $8 million if his current trend in scoring continues.

I'll broken record it, but this shouldn't even be an issue. He should be in year 2 of a 6 year/$36-38 million deal. Yes, he would have signed for that.

 

[We Want Ten]

He's obviously not going to get $8 million if his current trend in scoring continues.

I'll broken record it, but this shouldn't even be an issue. He should be in year 2 of a 6 year/$36-38 million deal. Yes, he would have signed for that.

I thought they did offer him 6 per?

Anyways, the more I watch him, the more I think he is done in Columbus.

Edit:
They did offer him 5.75 mill per.
http://http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/blue-jackets-president-accuses-ryan-johansen-of-extortion--reveals-contract-numbers-191358217.html

Mathes, how do they work?

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

I thought they did offer him 6 per?

Anyways, the more I watch him, the more I think he is done in Columbus.

I think they did offer $32M/6 years and $46M/8 years

 

[Cyclones Rock]

It was a 11.75th hour offer.

If they had just stuck 2 years @ $3 million per or a $36 year 6 year deal as the two options far earlier in the negotiations and just let the agent know that those were his two options, then I'm almost certain that they would have taken the $$. An offer like this would have been reasonable with respect to true market value. The lowball offers combined with the rhetoric was ridiculous.

I'll throw this out. Every major offensive piece on the Jackets has received a long term, big money deal except #19. Savard and Bob were also signed to big deals by this FO. Saad, who was in the same negotiating position as Johansen with respect to RFA status, the same age, and with significantly lesser stats, was given a 5 year $30 million deal by this FO. If you're #19, then you're probably more than a little resentful that you, as the team's leading scorer two years ago, an all star and top 16 NHL overall scorer last year, got hardballs thrown at him in negotiations while everyone else was given market value (or above) without seemingly any hesitation from the FO.

IF-and I'll say it again-IF Johansen is dogging it, there is no excuse for it. He did dog it in Springfield a few years ago during their playoffs, so it's in him. Still, the FO has done everything in its power to demoralize the team's best offensive asset.

 

[NotWendell]

He's obviously not going to get $8 million if his current trend in scoring continues.

I'll broken record it, but this shouldn't even be an issue. He should be in year 2 of a 6 year/$36-38 million deal. Yes, he would have signed for that.

At this point, I'm not sure he's worth that. So maybe it's a good thing he wasn't signed for six years?

 

[Cyclones Rock]

At this point, I'm not sure he's worth that. So maybe it's a good thing he wasn't signed for six years?

I look at it this way, Lee. If he wasn't working out at this stage and was signed for 4 2/3rds more years at $6 million, then the Jackets would have a huge trading asset. I seriously doubt that a mediocre 1/3rd of a season for a 23 year old with his track record and abilities would cause other teams to shy away from the prospect of getting a possible elite #1C via trade. I would think that many GMs would look at this situation as Tyler Seguinesque.

As it stands now, Johansen goes to arbitration after next season and is slated to be a UFA after the 17-18 season. This reduces his trade value significantly.

The FO copped an attitude and dug in their heels with him and ended up screwing the franchise in the process.

 

[EspenK]

I look at it this way, Lee. If he wasn't working out at this stage and was signed for 4 2/3rds more years at $6 million, then the Jackets would have a huge trading asset. I seriously doubt that a mediocre 1/3rd of a season for a 23 year old with his track record and abilities would cause other teams to shy away from the prospect of getting a possible elite #1C via trade. I would think that many GMs would look at this situation as Tyler Seguinesque.

As it stands now, Johansen goes to arbitration after next season and is slated to be a UFA after the 17-18 season. This reduces his trade value significantly.

The FO copped an attitude and dug in their heels with him and ended up screwing the franchise in the process.

I'm not sure he would have taken 6 for 6 but had that been the deal it would have made the current situation more tolerable and as you point out provided a better trade position if that is the route the FO decides is right.

 

[We Want Ten]

It was a 11.75th hour offer.

If they had just stuck 2 years @ $3 million per or a $36 year 6 year deal as the two options far earlier in the negotiations and just let the agent know that those were his two options, then I'm almost certain that they would have taken the $$. An offer like this would have been reasonable with respect to true market value. The lowball offers combined with the rhetoric was ridiculous.

I'll throw this out. Every major offensive piece on the Jackets has received a long term, big money deal except #19. Savard and Bob were also signed to big deals by this FO. Saad, who was in the same negotiating position as Johansen with respect to RFA status, the same age, and with significantly lesser stats, was given a 5 year $30 million deal by this FO. If you're #19, then you're probably more than a little resentful that you, as the team's leading scorer two years ago, an all star and top 16 NHL overall scorer last year, got hardballs thrown at him in negotiations while everyone else was given market value (or above) without seemingly any hesitation from the FO.

IF-and I'll say it again-IF Johansen is dogging it, there is no excuse for it. He did dog it in Springfield a few years ago during their playoffs, so it's in him. Still, the FO has done everything in its power to demoralize the team's best offensive asset.

1. It is still an offer, no matter the hour. I have been in negotiations that went to the 11th hour. It's still an offer.

2. Didn't Savard sign a bridge deal? I know Bob did.

3. Look at our roster, who is the laziest guy on it in your opinion? I'm not talking about what's posted here or said in the media, but watching the team and seeing the skaters? To me it's not even close.

Bolded:
Well he has really showed them...

 

[Kev22]

It seems to me that this club is on the verge of a fire sale. Keep the ones that are consistent performers and dump the others that don't fit into the system. It's all sad really, this team seems like it is the most talented team we've ever had, but it's too fragile mentally to compete.

 

[Nanabijou]

I look at it this way, Lee. If he wasn't working out at this stage and was signed for 4 2/3rds more years at $6 million, then the Jackets would have a huge trading asset. I seriously doubt that a mediocre 1/3rd of a season for a 23 year old with his track record and abilities would cause other teams to shy away from the prospect of getting a possible elite #1C via trade. I would think that many GMs would look at this situation as Tyler Seguinesque.

As it stands now, Johansen goes to arbitration after next season and is slated to be a UFA after the 17-18 season. This reduces his trade value significantly.

The FO copped an attitude and dug in their heels with him and ended up screwing the franchise in the process.

Well, at least you can say you are consistent. I still am not sure why you are so sure of yourself on this; I have little faith that he would have signed an early deal. Even if he did, I think the CBJ are in a better position now. If a team is enamored with him, they could have him for the next 9 years if they trade for him in the off-season.

The problem with Joey appears to be his drive. At least now there is a contract year for him next year that might motivate him. Had he signed for 6 years, we might have gotten 5 years of floating before he ratcheted it up again.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

It seems to me that this club is on the verge of a fire sale. Keep the ones that are consistent performers and dump the others that don't fit into the system. It's all sad really, this team seems like it is the most talented team we've ever had, but it's too fragile mentally to compete.

You would know this as well as anyone, Kev, but we've been saying the bolded for years, with different players, coaches, general managers, president/front offices...

If that is indeed the case, and it appears to be, what was different during the latter half of the most recent playoff year? Why twice now, in this franchise's history, has a playoff appearance been followed at first with such promise only to lead to greater disappointment?

I'm not asking you specifically - this is not some challenge. Just trying to CSI the early evidence of another season gone wrong.

I'll comment on your points about "keep consistent" and "dump others that don't fit the system." I've dropped this in a couple different discussions now but I don't know what kind of team is being built here. I care less about the system and more about the identity. Obviously you can't win with only one type of player, but with JK, it feels like just when you've figured out the kind of player he wants, it changes. That's my reaction anyway.

EDIT: Damn this is way off topic.

 

[DarkandStormy]

I'll throw this out. Every major offensive piece on the Jackets has received a long term, big money deal except #19. Savard and Bob were also signed to big deals by this FO. Saad, who was in the same negotiating position as Johansen with respect to RFA status, the same age, and with significantly lesser stats, was given a 5 year $30 million deal by this FO. If you're #19, then you're probably more than a little resentful that you, as the team's leading scorer two years ago, an all star and top 16 NHL overall scorer last year, got hardballs thrown at him in negotiations while everyone else was given market value (or above) without seemingly any hesitation from the FO.

I....can't even.

Saad has two Cups, and we TRADED to get him. Obviously we weren't going to offer a bridge. If you can't tell the difference then I don't even know why you're posting.

They've offered a bridge to pretty much everyone else coming off their ELC, including Bob.

Joey certainly isn't out proving that the FO was wrong. Coasting around like Jeff Carter circa 2012. He's playing soft and lazy and letting his teammates down. Not even worth the 6/$32m they offered him last year, unless he decides to play hard. Some nights he looks like a top 5 C in the league, and other nights he looks like an AHLer. Figure it out, kid.

 

[EDM]

After Joey failed to cover his man, the guy who scored the winning goal, it is time to stop referring to him as a Number One Center. "Potential Number One Center", fine. But with the way he is playing this year, he is not a Number One Center right now.

I was watching him carefully on his potential break away in the second period. As he was starting the break away, the first thing he did was SLOW DOWN and look to pass it. In that brief moment, the King's d-man caught up to him. If he was a Number One Center, he would have taken that puck, shifted into a higher gear and dominated Quick for the score. Two years ago, Contract Year Joey would have taken that puck, rushed in on the goalie and confidently buried the shot for a goal. Contract Year Joey was a confident, dominating player who was justifiably feared around the league. The Joey on the ice this year is a laughable shell of Contract Year Joey.

 

[Forepar]

I don't profess to have an answer on the Joey issue. Trade him, keep him, demote him, shower him with praise, change lines, press box him???

I can't even tell if he's floating or not. That's what it looks like to me, but I get that he skates with a longer stride and is in fact CBJ's most talented player.
But his post-game interview last night was priceless...not quoting him, but something like "yeah, on me, I lost my man" - with a "so what" tone used just for good measure.
Or maybe that's just my own perception simply because I'm tired of watching the entire team throw away points/games. No, they didn't play well enough to deserve to win. But 72 had those 2 points stolen...

 

[EDM]

The "so what?" is the problem.

 

[Viqsi]

Sure. Let's just plan on over paying a player that may not be able to take us to the next level because we don't have a better option. We have plenty of cap space to throw 9+ million at a said player.

Ridiculous.

Seriously, I hope he improves. But I'm pretty tired of hearing the whole "Let's not do anything about an issue because the other option may or may not be better". Seriously how many times can we do the wrong thing because we're scared that we may do may not be end up being the right thing?

I'm not hearing "We have to pay him because he's a top five center in the league". I'm hearing "We have to keep him because Wennberg (or someone else) might not be a #1 center. It took us forever to get someone decent, so we just have to keep him.".

This is like the whole Howson and Todd Richards debate all over again with the same people living in absolute fear of the unknown.

If Johansen is playing at this level and he and his agent asks for 6.5 a year, go for it. If he's asking for 9+, at his current level, trade him otherwise you are going to hurt this franchise for a long, long time. This is starting to smell like a contract year high level performance with 8 years of coasting after that.

There is an assumption here on your part that is incorrect. I am not saying "pay Johansen whatever he asks for"; that's absurd. What I object to is "Johansen might ask for a lot, therefore OMG TRADE HIM NOW".

* * *​

The "so what?" is the problem.

It's also presumed and probably doesn't actually exist.

And this "let's demote the status of our high-value asset because he's not doing well during a lean time" silliness is how bad trades happen. This is why Tyler Seguin is now a Dallas Star.