Chew on that, you just made it worse for him. You called him a talentless bottom 6 grinder who gets his points from the skilled players around him. I have no problem with him if that's all he is as a player, the problem is he makes 5.8 to do that. You don't pay that kind of money to a grinder, nor give them a 5 year deal with a NTC.
Player Discussion: Ryan Callahan
- Thread starter The Macho King
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Chew on that, you just made it worse for him. You called him a talentless bottom 6 grinder who gets his points from the skilled players around him. I have no problem with him if that's all he is as a player, the problem is he makes 5.8 to do that. You don't pay that kind of money to a grinder, nor give them a 5 year deal with a NTC.
Tampabear
Registered User
- Mar 5, 2014
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There were indeed. A bunch of panicing children wanted him scratched and then traded or not resigned. Don't hear 'em now.
Tampabear
Registered User
- Mar 5, 2014
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Yes, my position is that he's much more dependent on more-skilled forwards than they are on him and that he's not an exceptional player at this level. That doesn't equate to his being "talentless" and nor did I argue that.
And it's not so much where he slots into the lineup -- I thought I made it very clear I see him as versatile enough to skate on a top line -- so much as its ensuring he has at least one guy skating with him to lean on for certain facets, chiefly working the neutral zone with efficiency via clean zone exits and entries, since there's a lot more chip-out-or-in-and-charge, a methodical, meat-and-potatoes approach to Callahan's game than particular finesse for crafty maneuvers, controlled carry-ins and game-breaking displays.
I agree! As some of you may recall (or can dig up), I was very much opposed his re-signing and this was a substantial part of my reasoning.
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Stamkos turned his game around that's why you don't hear anything, Callahan just gets worse. Callahan came into the postseason as a 50 point player on the top line. He's been relegated to a 3rd line grinder with no offense. That's just awful no matter how you want to spin it, your supposed top players shouldn't be getting demoted when you need them to step up.
From the article:
Yost is taking time to key in on Callahan, who he's targeted before, which is fine but a key part of the answer for the stark results shown in the graph above, which accounts for the Rangers series only, lies, quite obviously, with the groupings.
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Yost also wrote an article of something like the 10 worst contracts league-wide (he keyed in on AMac especially) and identified Callahan's as one of the worst. He made some very strange comparisons with regards to Callahan and his analysis of AMac was incredibly simplistic. I'm not sold on him at all.
Im not sure if even his biggest supporters were in favor of the length of that contract. Especially after seeing the aftermath of the Dustin Brown deal, who is a very similar player. A true power forward would have been such a better fit.
From the article:
Yost is taking time to key in on Callahan, who he's targeted before, which is fine but a key part of the answer for the stark results shown in the graph above, which accounts for the Rangers series only, lies, quite obviously, with the groupings.
If anything, it shows how bad our bottom six is right now. Callahan is the top six guy who's playing in the bottom six, so he's taking the brunt of the heat.
I'm not too concerned about the length of the deal. I think the last year or two could hurt, but Callahan looks like a guy who'll age pretty well, especially if used properly. We used him well this year and he had a healthy season because of it. But the big thing is he has enough speed that he'll still be effective even if he loses a step. A lot of guys who age poorly don't start off with great speed. Cally should be roughly the same player he is now for the next 2-3 years, I think. Maybe longer.
He's probably going to be a middle six guy for us for the rest of his tenure. He's pretty much the epitome of a complementary player, so how much offense he provides will always depend a lot on his linemates. Cooper definitely isn't doing him any favors right now, but his poor play looks like it goes beyond linemates.
I still like the contract. But if next year's playoffs go like this year's, that could change. I don't really care if he scores. He probably won't with that line. But I wouldn't mind seeing him win some board battles and maybe run over a guy now and again.
chasespace
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LightningStrikes
Champa Bay Lightning
- Nov 24, 2009
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Just read through the first few pages of this thread. Good times... HEART AND SOUL PLAYER RYAN CALLAHAN!
Not worried about Callahan this season - he earned every penny of that contract and was a first line player. Not worried about Callahan in the playoffs - he just had surgery and was probably playing through appendicitis pain. MAD respect for Cally. Not worried about Callahan next season + playoffs - with some luck he'll stay injury free and live up to his contract.
I'm worried about Callahan in year 3. If Kucherov and Stammer remain wingers...a $5.8M contract for a third line RW will be prohibitive. But for now kicking a guy while he is down as he is giving the team everything he can...is just...yeah.
I'm worried about Callahan in year 3. If Kucherov and Stammer remain wingers...a $5.8M contract for a third line RW will be prohibitive. But for now kicking a guy while he is down as he is giving the team everything he can...is just...yeah.
With Drouin and Erne on the way, and who knows what other faces will pop up along the way, it's hard to imagine Callahan will stick with the top-six long-term. I think he's a tweener as of now, but will be cemented to the third line as early as next year. He'll always be a decent option to get a bump up though, for either injury or chemistry reasons.
He was brought in to bring in secondary scoring, say 20 goals and around 50 points in a season, 2nd line production, provide leadership, a two way style of play, play both special teams(Still confused to why Coop does not give him PK time) and a physical presence to provide Grit and net front presence. He has exceeded expectations this entire season. As per the playoffs, he never put up a lot of points because his game became more of the intangible production and playing the physical part. Skating with Paquette and having his appendix removed has not given him any justice.
TKO has basically made things more interesting for this team. Guys like Flip, Killorn and Cally have found themselves all year going up and down from the Top to 3rd line. Our 3rd line has hurt because we have not had both Cally and Flip on there for a long period of time, either Cally was on the top line or as of now Flip is there. 3rd line is filled with one top 6 forward and the rest 4th liners.
With Drouin hopefully ready to play a full season next year and other guys coming into play, we can have 3 strong lines. I still think Cally will find himself back on the top line at some point next season. But now in these playoffs the top line is working, so there is no reason to change it. He'll be fine if he keeps playing like he has recently. 3rd line has looked better and better.
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Steazy Doo
Registered User
- Jan 31, 2013
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Callahan has earned a promotion? I'm sorry, but no. Filppula is playing some of the best hockey of his career this playoffs, no way you move him down to the third. Come on, guy.
No way Callahan has earned a promotion to the top line. What...over Killorn, Filp, and Stamkos? ....this new line is the best combination we've seen all year for a line containing Stamkos. Your worst fears are becoming true...Callahan relegated to permanent third line if Stamkos stays on the right wing.
You're hurting Callahan's case more than helping it.
He played very well in these last two games. But he hasn't outplayed Flip and he DEFINITELY hasn't outplayed Killorn. We finally have two good lines--now that Callahan has been removed from the top-six. And that's fine. It's a team game. There's no reason to oversell Callahan's value.
I'm not concerned. He is not going anywhere and if he keeps playing like he has the last 2 games he will be more than fine.
Yeah, to have a 3rd line of say Drouin - Names - Callahan sounds pretty sweet. Paquette needs to be on the 4th line and will likely replace Morrow's spot next season. If Drouin ever goes to the top line with Stamkos, then it would be interesting to see who falls back to the 3rd line.
Brie
bearer of bad news
- Jul 5, 2014
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Is this really necessary?
The 17-51-91 line is really good and have done well against a speedy team like the rangers but I doubt they would have worked against DET for example and in that series a big key to us winning was having two grinders like Cally and Killorn on the same line (even if Stamkos was a non-factor but you can't blame that on either of his linemates), in the MTL series things were a bit different and suddenly Stamkos woke up which is great and then Cally got sick and they found that playing Stamkos on wing worked well with Fil, there is nothing wrong with that and their success has been the teams success and yeah, they had to move Cally down to the 3rd line which if he had some better linemates could have given us at least 3 scoring lines but right now he still has to do most of it himself which isn't easy but we shouldn't sit here and bash him for it, I think we should be happy that we have many line combos that work at different times and if something were to happen to one player than other players can step in without a problem and help and we wouldn't be dead in the water and that's a sign of a good team where everyone plays for each other. If we had a more consistant center on the 3rd line we would be unstoppable but now we don't have that and the bottom-6 don't put up a lot of goals but they are doing their best and working their ***** of out there and deserves creadit for that too which we know they get from their teammates. I'm aslo sure that Yzerman as well as Cooper already have plans for the future and what the team need to change and we have no idea which players will still be here but we have a lot of young guys who will probably get a chance to play and maybe we're able to build a 4 line lineup then, I mean who knows, the Drouin - Stamkos -Callahan line was damn good so maybe we see that as our 1st line next year and have Killorn and Filppula back on the 3rd line, we just don't know but in this series this lineup has worked and we'll see if the same lines work in the finals or there might be some new changes done again.
The 17-51-91 line is really good and have done well against a speedy team like the rangers but I doubt they would have worked against DET for example and in that series a big key to us winning was having two grinders like Cally and Killorn on the same line (even if Stamkos was a non-factor but you can't blame that on either of his linemates), in the MTL series things were a bit different and suddenly Stamkos woke up which is great and then Cally got sick and they found that playing Stamkos on wing worked well with Fil, there is nothing wrong with that and their success has been the teams success and yeah, they had to move Cally down to the 3rd line which if he had some better linemates could have given us at least 3 scoring lines but right now he still has to do most of it himself which isn't easy but we shouldn't sit here and bash him for it, I think we should be happy that we have many line combos that work at different times and if something were to happen to one player than other players can step in without a problem and help and we wouldn't be dead in the water and that's a sign of a good team where everyone plays for each other. If we had a more consistant center on the 3rd line we would be unstoppable but now we don't have that and the bottom-6 don't put up a lot of goals but they are doing their best and working their ***** of out there and deserves creadit for that too which we know they get from their teammates. I'm aslo sure that Yzerman as well as Cooper already have plans for the future and what the team need to change and we have no idea which players will still be here but we have a lot of young guys who will probably get a chance to play and maybe we're able to build a 4 line lineup then, I mean who knows, the Drouin - Stamkos -Callahan line was damn good so maybe we see that as our 1st line next year and have Killorn and Filppula back on the 3rd line, we just don't know but in this series this lineup has worked and we'll see if the same lines work in the finals or there might be some new changes done again.
Brie
bearer of bad news
- Jul 5, 2014
- 22,677
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After having some struggles in the series against the habs and at the start of rangers series he came around really well towards the end of that series as well as in the SCF where he lead the team in points (among forward) and were tied in points with Hedman (Hawks also had a few players with 4 points so no one had more) so a lot of creadit to him and his linemates for helping us win those two games. I though he was having an overall good SCF and you could tell he really wanted to win because he played the kind of sacrifiecing game that the hawks played and did it well, hopefully his play will keep it up next season and if we make it to the playoffs again that this was the Cally we will keep seeing.
MrClutch86
Registered User
I thought Callahan and Paquette were good in the finals, and I like the guy.
Contract is a little much.
Contract is a little much.
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