Ryan Callahan appreciation thread

[Raspewtin]

I disagree, he is a dynamic player with talent and puts forth a lot of effort. His fore-checking and able to create turnovers also create a lot of offense, he also has speed as well, like we saw against Washington.

No offense, but you have the totally wrong definition of dynamic.

He's multi-dimensional, maybe that's what you meant.

 

[Callagraves]

Where does he score those goals? In front

You're not entirely wrong, but I'm failing to see the problem with that. It's evidently an effective place for him.

 

[Leonardo87]

2013: Callahan is tied for 19th (along with what a dozen other players) for PP goals

2012: tied for 5th (along side OV and Hall) for PP goals

2011: Tied for 18 (alongside 10 others)

2010: tied for 37th (along with a dozen others, inlcuding Kane, Parise, Toews, Datsyuk)

I think Callahan is pretty good on the powerplay, especially considering how awful it's been before this season.

If you ever go to a game have to buy you a beer! You took the words right out of my mouth. lol His points have been decent, not great since coming back, because AV has starved him. As you know every player cashes in on the PP, and when Cally got back AV did not want to change things around, but you know that will change when one of the units gets stale.

 

[Bullseyes]

Ive always appreciated his heart, but Im surprised he is so lionized around here.

When we look back at his captaincy in 5,10, 15 years, it'll be on par with Kelly Kisio. In other words, nothing too remarkable.

Agreed. He's been a good captain, but he hasn't exactly been anything especially special as a captain.

I disagree, he is a dynamic player with talent and puts forth a lot of effort. His fore-checking and able to create turnovers also create a lot of offense, he also has speed as well, like we saw against Washington. There is always better out there, of course, not going to argue about that. But I feel you need someone who can create offense and also defend. Nash for an example is a one way forward, proof in the last 2 games. He scores a few goals, awesome, yet we lose because his line gives up a few goals, and he takes a bad penalty. Callahan has given up one even strength goal since he's been back. I remember that defense play against Pittsburgh when the puck was sliding into the net and he stopped it, I come up with a dozen plays this season alone, but I'm preaching to the Choir here.

I see a player that can do everything on the ice, and you will need a top-6 forward, along with a couple of PK'ers and whatnot to replace him. Nash is great, love him would trade for him again in a heartbeat, but the fact remains is if he is not scoring goals he is pretty F'ing useless, like Gaborik was. Cally at least is not useless when he is not scoring, he is doing other things, and had been defended by AV on that subject. If a coach trusts a player to log in over 20 mins against the Stanley Cup champions with only a one goal difference, then the fans should trust that player as well.

Callahan is dynamic?

 

[Leonardo87]

No offense, but you have the totally wrong definition of dynamic.

He's multi-dimensional, maybe that's what you meant.

Yeah thats what I meant thanks.

 

[Callagraves]

If you ever go to a game have to buy you a beer! You took the words right out of my mouth. lol His points have been decent, not great since coming back, because AV has starved him. As you know every player cashes in on the PP, and when Cally got back AV did not want to change things around, but you know that will change when one of the units gets stale.

I've been making every effort not to ***** about Pouliot in front of the net instead of Cally, because everyone here already knows how much of a fan I am, and I really don't want to be that "Put my favorite player in a position to succeed!" guy. Even more, I can't really complain much about the powerplay; it's been effective.

I still think he's much better in front of the net than Pouliot, who had some nice goals earlier, but even with his limited PP time, he's got as many PP goals as Nash.

It's also possible he's not being used on the powerplay so that AV has a line to throw out there after the PP is up that isn't the 4th line. Not sure I agree with it, but it's a tactic.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Callahan can score goals from about ~5 ft out. Maybe even 10 ft on the rare occasion!

 

[Callagraves]

Callahan can score goals from about ~5 ft out. Maybe even 10 ft on the rare occasion!

So he doesn't have a slapshot. Alright.

A goal's a goal man. Besides, with the talent level of goalies, most goals are scored in close, or off a rebound, no?

You wouldn't stick him at the point and ask him to rip it past a 'tender, same as you wouldn't ask Richards to go battle in the slot.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

So he doesn't have a slapshot. Alright.

A goal's a goal man. Besides, with the talent level of goalies, most goals are scored in close, or off a rebound, no?

You wouldn't stick him at the point and ask him to rip it past a 'tender, same as you wouldn't ask Richards to go battle in the slot.

A goal is a goal, yes.

For starters, Callahan hasn't been producing many goals this year. Secondly, the fact that he can only score on rebounds/tips (for the most part) indicates a lack of a well rounded game offensively. From about 5ft out is the only area of the offensive zone Callahan is even remotely dangerous.

That is not worth $6M per for any amount of years.

 

[Leonardo87]

I've been making every effort not to ***** about Pouliot in front of the net instead of Cally, because everyone here already knows how much of a fan I am, and I really don't want to be that "Put my favorite player in a position to succeed!" guy. Even more, I can't really complain much about the powerplay; it's been effective.

I still think he's much better in front of the net than Pouliot, who had some nice goals earlier, but even with his limited PP time, he's got as many PP goals as Nash.

It's also possible he's not being used on the powerplay so that AV has a line to throw out there after the PP is up that isn't the 4th line. Not sure I agree with it, but it's a tactic.

Yeah having your 2nd line out after a PP def keeps the momentum going especially when there is an offensive zone face off. He needs to keep Richards on the 1st half then, and let him come back out instead of Boyle centering Cally and Hags.

AV has also been using him in those last couple of min moments when they are up by one. He logged in over 20 mins against the Blackhawks, and was out there for the last 2 mins defending against 6 attackers.

He is getting a lot of ice time, but it's a lot of defense ice time, and just 5 on 5, so yeah his point production is going to suffer a little. I mean he scored on a PK the other game, lol.

 

[Leonardo87]

A goal is a goal, yes.

For starters, Callahan hasn't been producing many goals this year. Secondly, the fact that he can only score on rebounds/tips (for the most part) indicates a lack of a well rounded game offensively. From about 5ft out is the only area of the offensive zone Callahan is even remotely dangerous.

That is not worth $6M per for any amount of years.

Who on this team besides Nash has been really scoring many goals this season? Step has 9 goals in 53 games, Cally has the same and only played 36, well really 35 games.

 

[Callagraves]

A goal is a goal, yes.

For starters, Callahan hasn't been producing many goals this year. Secondly, the fact that he can only score on rebounds/tips (for the most part) indicates a lack of a well rounded game offensively. From about 5ft out is the only area of the offensive zone Callahan is even remotely dangerous.

That is not worth $6M per for any amount of years.

I won't argue that Callahan's not having an odd year. His play has been up and down, his numbers are below his average, but it's important to note his injury struggles, as well as a drop in ice-time and power play time

That said, historically, Cally scores at a 25-25 pace or higher, and I think it's a very strange comment to declare that kind of a player not well rounded.

Also, I'd like to point out last year, where Cally scored the VAST majority of his goals off the rush, normally breakaways or odd man rushes, which he hasn't been able to get this year.

I suppose it depends on what you think he'll be able to bring, but with the market trending the way it is, 6M may very well be the going rate for a 50+ point winger.

It makes you wonder about if it makes the contract on Richards any more viable.


Edit: For what it's worth, I'm hoping we land him for about 5.5

 

[Trxjw]

2013: Callahan is tied for 19th (along with what a dozen other players) for PP goals

2012: tied for 5th (along side only OV and Hall) for PP goals

2011: Tied for 18 (alongside 10 others)

2010: tied for 37th (along with a dozen others, inlcuding Kane, Parise, Toews, Datsyuk)

I think Callahan is pretty good on the powerplay, especially considering how awful it's been before this season.

All fair points, but look at these numbers in comparison:

2010:
PP TOI/G - 3:16
PP Goals - 9

2011:
PP TOI/G - 3:23
PP Goals - 10

2012:
PP TOI/G - 3:42
PP Goals - 13

2013:
PP TOI/G - 3:12
PP Goals - 6

2014:
PP TOI/G - 2:03
PP Goals - 4

Callahan is no longer the #1 net-front presence on the PP. Kreider is getting that time now. So that lack of PP ice time is going to effect his goal output. About 40% of his goal scoring comes from the PP.

$6M for a guy who isn't on the top powerplay unit? He's no longer the #1 PKing option either. His role on the team is changing under a new coach. That has to be acknowledged. Don't over pay for a winger based on his history, when he may be seeing a reduced role moving forward that could drastically alter his production and value.

 

[Raspewtin]

AV is not, and has never been the type to play his superstars huge minutes, not his forwards at least. Unlike under Torts' regime, Callahan is not the go to guy on the PP or PK. There is no go to guy anymore. No forward gets over 20 minutes a game, so everybody has to be effective in reduced roles. Callahan's role has been drastically reduced from under Torts, and that's where a lot of his value came from. Being the best PP guy, and the best PK guy. Forwards that need heavy minutes to get the most out of them aren't effective under AV, because he likes to divide ice time as much as possible.

Under AV, Callahan doesn't have as much value as we've seen him to have. And his reduced role makes it incredibly asinine to pay him 6 million.

Under Torts, it probably would've made more sense. Probably.

 

[n8]

All i know is if Patrick "goals" Marleau resigned for $6.667M and Joe "6th in the league" Thornton resigned for $6.75M, Callahan better not get a sniff above $6M in his contract. Those are hometown discounts for sure but those are also two very very good players. Regardless of how much heart Callahan brings, 2 of him isn't even worth one of those two players.

edit:

Alex "better than Crosby" Steen extended for an AAV of $5.8M
Dustin Brown at $5.875M
Jordan Staal at $6M
Nathan Horton at $5.3M
Jason Pominville at $5.6M
Joe Pavelski at $6M
Logan Couture at $6M

these are all players I think are better than Callahan so yeah, I'd be quite annoyed if Sather extended Callahan (especially with the not so good season he's having this year) at $6+M/year. Given the current market conditions and seeing what other much better players are getting in terms UFA signings/extensions, I'd even be annoyed if he got more than $5.5M. He is not worth that much although I'm sure Torts will convince Nonis that he is and playing with the Sedins, he could prove me quite wrong but a broom stick playing with the Sedins would probably defy my expectations as well.

 

[n8]

All fair points, but look at these numbers in comparison:

2010:
PP TOI/G - 3:16
PP Goals - 9

2011:
PP TOI/G - 3:23
PP Goals - 10

2012:
PP TOI/G - 3:42
PP Goals - 13

2013:
PP TOI/G - 3:12
PP Goals - 6

2014:
PP TOI/G - 2:03
PP Goals - 4

Callahan is no longer the #1 net-front presence on the PP. Kreider is getting that time now. So that lack of PP ice time is going to effect his goal output. About 40% of his goal scoring comes from the PP.

$6M for a guy who isn't on the top powerplay unit? He's no longer the #1 PKing option either. His role on the team is changing under a new coach. That has to be acknowledged. Don't over pay for a winger based on his history, when he may be seeing a reduced role moving forward that could drastically alter his production and value.

what are his PK stats?

 

[mike14]

what are his PK stats?

2009-10:
SHTOI/G = 2:44, 2nd on team

2010-11 = 2:13, lead team

2011-12 = 1:48 2nd on team

2012-13 = 2:33 lead team

2013-14 = 1:17, 6th on team, although those above him include Fast and Pyatt

 

[Callagraves]

All fair points, but look at these numbers in comparison:

2010:
PP TOI/G - 3:16
PP Goals - 9

2011:
PP TOI/G - 3:23
PP Goals - 10

2012:
PP TOI/G - 3:42
PP Goals - 13

2013:
PP TOI/G - 3:12
PP Goals - 6

2014:
PP TOI/G - 2:03
PP Goals - 4

Callahan is no longer the #1 net-front presence on the PP. Kreider is getting that time now. So that lack of PP ice time is going to effect his goal output. About 40% of his goal scoring comes from the PP.

$6M for a guy who isn't on the top powerplay unit? He's no longer the #1 PKing option either. His role on the team is changing under a new coach. That has to be acknowledged. Don't over pay for a winger based on his history, when he may be seeing a reduced role moving forward that could drastically alter his production and value.

Really good points. With Kreider playing how he has, you don't really want to take a moment of ice time away from him, but AV has barely been using Cally on the 2nd unit, which is baffling to me, as he's far and away the better player over Pouliot.

I'm not sure about that PKing comment. Hags and Boyle and Moore and Cally have been the PKing lines, and I frequently see one then the other. I suppose you could call Hags and Boyle the #1, as they tend to see the ice first, but I generally see them relied on equally.

The point has been made that everyone's ice time has dropped under AV, as he really runs a top 9 over a top 6, and there's a legit question of whether Callahan can produce enough to make his demands worth it with the kind of ice time he's going to get under AV?

 

[Trxjw]

Really good points. With Kreider playing how he has, you don't really want to take a moment of ice time away from him, but AV has barely been using Cally on the 2nd unit, which is baffling to me, as he's far and away the better player over Pouliot.

I'm not sure about that PKing comment. Hags and Boyle and Moore and Cally have been the PKing lines, and I frequently see one then the other. I suppose you could call Hags and Boyle the #1, as they tend to see the ice first, but I generally see them relied on equally.

The point has been made that everyone's ice time has dropped under AV, as he really runs a top 9 over a top 6, and there's a legit question of whether Callahan can produce enough to make his demands worth it with the kind of ice time he's going to get under AV?

A lot of that has to do with the chemistry that Pouliot has with Brassard and Zuccarello. They've been somewhat successful as a unit, so it's tough to justify breaking them up.

In previous years, Cally was a staple on the PK. He, along with Stepan and Boyle were the go-to guys there. That's not necessarily the case anymore. Zucc and Hagelin are killing penalties as well. His minutes are down significantly this year. Part is due to the injuries he's dealt with, but it's also just a product of AV's coaching.

Honestly, I think that if this team was still under Tort's coaching, Callahan would have been re-signed already. However, he's not the optimal fit as a "key forward" in a system like this. He's a tireless worker, but you can see the skill players getting the optimal minutes and they're running with it. If his role is going to remain where it is, or even be reduced further, I have a hard time seeing him ever earn his $6M every year.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

A lot of that has to do with the chemistry that Pouliot has with Brassard and Zuccarello. They've been somewhat successful as a unit, so it's tough to justify breaking them up.

In previous years, Cally was a staple on the PK. He, along with Stepan and Boyle were the go-to guys there. That's not necessarily the case anymore. Zucc and Hagelin are killing penalties as well. His minutes are down significantly this year. Part is due to the injuries he's dealt with, but it's also just a product of AV's coaching.

Honestly, I think that if this team was still under Tort's coaching, Callahan would have been re-signed already. However, he's not the optimal fit as a "key forward" in a system like this. He's a tireless worker, but you can see the skill players getting the optimal minutes and they're running with it. If his role is going to remain where it is, or even be reduced further, I have a hard time seeing him ever earn his $6M every year.

I agree.

But Im very worried about where this team will be in 2 years. Will AV still be here? Will this currently style of play still be applicable?

Tough questions to answer, as always, as a Ranger fan.

 

[Callagraves]

A lot of that has to do with the chemistry that Pouliot has with Brassard and Zuccarello. They've been somewhat successful as a unit, so it's tough to justify breaking them up.

In previous years, Cally was a staple on the PK. He, along with Stepan and Boyle were the go-to guys there. That's not necessarily the case anymore. Zucc and Hagelin are killing penalties as well. His minutes are down significantly this year. Part is due to the injuries he's dealt with, but it's also just a product of AV's coaching.

Honestly, I think that if this team was still under Tort's coaching, Callahan would have been re-signed already. However, he's not the optimal fit as a "key forward" in a system like this. He's a tireless worker, but you can see the skill players getting the optimal minutes and they're running with it. If his role is going to remain where it is, or even be reduced further, I have a hard time seeing him ever earn his $6M every year.

But that does raise the question of what could we possibly trade him for? A lesser forward who fits that role for cheap, and a pick?

Or, is overpaying a player in our situation really that terrible? With the Del Zotto trade, and the Richards buyout, cap space won't be a problem. There isn't a FA out there that I see as a major target, and to be honest, I'd prefer if Sather did his best to stay out of the Free Agent Pool as much as possible.

Similar to Montreal and Prust: They know it's an overpayment, but for what he brings to them, they see it as an overpayment as worth it.

 

[Callagraves]

I agree.

But Im very worried about where this team will be in 2 years. Will AV still be here? Will this currently style of play still be applicable?

Tough questions to answer, as always, as a Ranger fan.

AV has made alot of changes, dismantled alot of what had previously seen success. If he doesn't provide results, I can see him getting ousted pretty early.

They're rebuilding the team around his system. If he's getting the players he wants, it's going to fall on him to produce. Sather has shown he'll fire a coach who has made the playoffs 4 out of 5 years. AV's going to be given a good length of rope, and we'll see in a year or two whether he'll climb it, or hang himself.

Personally, I'm upset that he was even hired in the first place.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

But that does raise the question of what could we possibly trade him for? A lesser forward who fits that role for cheap, and a pick?

Or, is overpaying a player in our situation really that terrible? With the Del Zotto trade, and the Richards buyout, cap space won't be a problem. There isn't a FA out there that I see as a major target, and to be honest, I'd prefer if Sather did his best to stay out of the Free Agent Pool as much as possible.

Similar to Montreal and Prust: They know it's an overpayment, but for what he brings to them, they see it as an overpayment as worth it.

Yes, but how long with it be worth it?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

AV has made alot of changes, dismantled alot of what had previously seen success. If he doesn't provide results, I can see him getting ousted pretty early.

They're rebuilding the team around his system. If he's getting the players he wants, it's going to fall on him to produce. Sather has shown he'll fire a coach who has made the playoffs 4 out of 5 years. AV's going to be given a good length of rope, and we'll see in a year or two whether he'll climb it, or hang himself.

Personally, I'm upset that he was even hired in the first place.

I just dont think this team will go anywhere without a dynamic #1 center. Until that happens, every coach that comes here will be set up to fail.

 

[Trxjw]

But that does raise the question of what could we possibly trade him for? A lesser forward who fits that role for cheap, and a pick?

Or, is overpaying a player in our situation really that terrible? With the Del Zotto trade, and the Richards buyout, cap space won't be a problem. There isn't a FA out there that I see as a major target, and to be honest, I'd prefer if Sather did his best to stay out of the Free Agent Pool as much as possible.

Similar to Montreal and Prust: They know it's an overpayment, but for what he brings to them, they see it as an overpayment as worth it.

It depends on a lot of factors. I think we'd do better than a similar role player and a pick. Particularly if the team felt they had a good shot at re-signing him, or if he agreed to an extension before the trade went down.

Tough to say how much cap is going to be available. We have a lot of players to re-sign, and I don't believe for a second that if a center like Stastny hits the market, that the Rangers will restrain themselves from making a big offer. As it stands now, assuming Richards is bought out:

Kreider - Stepan - Nash
? - ? - ?
Hagelin - ? - ?
? - ? - Dorsett

McDonagh - ?
Staal - Klein
Moore - ?
?

Something like $35M already invested in the cap, and we have an entire second line, two thirds of a bottom six, and a top and bottom pairing D-man to add. That money is going to disappear quickly, especially if you're re-signing Callahan and Girardi at ~$6M a piece.