RW Yegor Chinakhov (2020, 21st, CBJ)

[lawrence]

Go listen to the Spittin Chiclets podcast for your answer. They frequently interview North Americans who play/played in the KHL.
Sure Whitney and Bissonnette love to exaggerate the 'crazy Russia' angle for entertainment value; but one thing is a constant, every interviewee says that Russia is a thoroughly different animal than NA or W. Europe. Adaptation can be completely overwhelming. Everything is different, across the board; life and hockey culture. A fish out of water.

We tend to take for granted the effort a lot of these Russian dudes put forth to play in the NHL. They must take on added obstacles other players don't contend with.

Must be tough for these poor kids to go through America or Canada’s tough culture. The hardship these kids must go through. I can only imagine how tough it is.

 

[BB06]

"this is the first I’ve personally heard about young Russians athletes coming to North America to play junior pro or the ahl to have some sort of negative effect to their hockey development because of “culture shock”."

theres nothing ignorant about this comment and you know it.

It’s an extremely ignorant comment and many Russian players have said so. Notably Malkin who Credits most of his success to Gonchar who helped the NA transition. I mean as Canucks fan you should know better considering Trymakin had major difficulties adjusting to Vancouver culture.

 

[thefutures]

Must be tough for these poor kids to go through America or Canada’s tough culture. The hardship these kids must go through. I can only imagine how tough it is.

Lol that's not what culture shock is. Moving across the world in a foreign environment, shouldn't be hard to understand?

 

[Fantomas]

If you're not a top prospect, coming to play in North America's juniors can involve some hardship. You have little money and normally stay with a family - which may or may not work out.

I've spoken to many homesick players in major junior, particularly from eastern european countries. Some come over undrafted to get exposure. Many miss their families and mates and their experience sometimes doesn't match their expectations (Russia may be 'crazy,' but small town Canada/US is unbelievably boring).

But if you're a big deal prospect and go straight to the pros, I wouldn't call that hardship.

 

[majormajor]

If you're not a top prospect, coming to play in North America's juniors can involve some hardship. You have little money and normally stay with a family - which may or may not work out.

I've spoken to many homesick players in major junior, particularly from eastern european countries. Some come over undrafted to get exposure. Many miss their families and mates and their experience sometimes doesn't match their expectations (Russia may be 'crazy,' but small town Canada/US is unbelievably boring).

But if you're a big deal prospect and go straight to the pros, I wouldn't call that hardship.

It's not a financial problem in the NHL/AHL. See below.

What's so shocking about the American Culture that it seems like only Russian players seem to have a problem with? The rap? Music? Crazy drives? Taylor Swift? not having dash cams in their cars? The ability to vote? What's so shocking about it. Please kindly answer.

"Shocking" is all besides the point. It's just confusing. And it is far more fundamental than music or democracy, etc.. If you suddenly found yourself in Russia would you even be able to take a shower? Buy shampoo? Take a trainride? Understand why everyone is laughing? The language doesn't even use the same alphabet, good luck typing everything into google translate!

Read Joffrey Lupul's old "KHL diary".
Start with Part 1, then read Part 2 where he discusses Chistov and Smirnov.

To be clear this is only a nightmare problem if a guy doesn't know the language and is at an age where young men sometimes struggle to take care of themselves even in their home countries. Chinakhov might be past that now, and the argument with him would be more about what is best for skill development. But even if Chinakhov gets better at English, missing humor is a big loss, and the awkwardness will usually stay forever. I've got an old Polish guy on my street who moved to the States 40 years ago, he functions fine business-wise but he can't follow the humor.

 

[lawrence]

Lol that's not what culture shock is. Moving across the world in a foreign environment, shouldn't be hard to understand?

So they won’t work out as players because of this? I’m being told more and more Russians are going through some sort of Culture shock and this is the reason why there are fewer Russians turning out into nhl players because they arrived to North America too early and the ahl is and no go for them.. Seems like only an issue with Russians. Any other European fans out there that can say the same about younger players from your country ?

 

[lawrence]

It's not a financial problem in the NHL/AHL. See below.



"Shocking" is all besides the point. It's just confusing. And it is far more fundamental than music or democracy, etc.. If you suddenly found yourself in Russia would you even be able to take a shower? Buy shampoo? Take a trainride? Understand why everyone is laughing? The language doesn't even use the same alphabet, good luck typing everything into google translate!

Read Joffrey Lupul's old "KHL diary".
Start with Part 1, then read Part 2 where he discusses Chistov and Smirnov.

To be clear this is only a nightmare problem if a guy doesn't know the language and is at an age where young men sometimes struggle to take care of themselves even in their home countries. Chinakhov might be past that now, and the argument with him would be more about what is best for skill development. But even if Chinakhov gets better at English, missing humor is a big loss, and the awkwardness will usually stay forever. I've got an old Polish guy on my street who moved to the States 40 years ago, he functions fine business-wise but he can't follow the humor.

I’m not saying they are for bidden to be culture shocked, im just saying “culture shock” shouldn’t be a reason why they didn’t make the nhl.

 

[lawrence]

It’s an extremely ignorant comment and many Russian players have said so. Notably Malkin who Credits most of his success to Gonchar who helped the NA transition. I mean as Canucks fan you should know better considering Trymakin had major difficulties adjusting to Vancouver culture.

so you’re saying culture shock effected his overall play on the ice ?

 

[wings5]

So they won’t work out as players because of this? I’m being told more and more Russians are going through some sort of Culture shock and this is the reason why there are fewer Russians turning out into nhl players because they arrived to North America too early and the ahl is and no go for them.. Seems like only an issue with Russians. Any other European fans out there that can say the same about younger players from your country ?

There clearly is no point attempting to explain this to you any further, you'd be better off to just stop and take the L...

 

[lawrence]

There clearly is no point attempting to explain this to you any further, you'd be better off to just stop and take the L...

Name me 1 Russian player that used culture shock as an excuse of not making it to the nhl. you name one I take the loss. Be great if you provide a source.

 

[majormajor]

I’m not saying they are for bidden to be culture shocked, im just saying “culture shock” shouldn’t be a reason why they didn’t make the nhl.

No idea what you're saying here. Did you read Lupul on Chistov and Smirnov? I doesn't seem you got the point.

So they won’t work out as players because of this? I’m being told more and more Russians are going through some sort of Culture shock and this is the reason why there are fewer Russians turning out into nhl players because they arrived to North America too early and the ahl is and no go for them.. Seems like only an issue with Russians. Any other European fans out there that can say the same about younger players from your country ?

It isn't surprising at all that this problem afflicts mainly Russians. They are much less likely to be able to speak or understand English and the culture is very different. Is it your impression that it is merely another part of Europe? Because that is not the case, Russia is a distinct cultural region much more distant from North American culture and Western/Central European culture.

so you’re saying culture shock effected his overall play on the ice ?

You know all of these things that 15-25 year olds need to learn to become adults, like when to sleep, what to eat/drink, wear, how to travel, etc...? All of those things can be delayed without cultural fluency. And yes that does lead to problems in how players train/practice and prepare for game time.

 

[wings5]

Name me 1 Russian player that used culture shock as an excuse of not making it to the nhl. you name one I take the loss. Be great if you provide a source.

A player doesn't need to come out and verbally say to the public this is why I failed, the stats of those who came to NA early and failed tell the whole story. Also, a page or two ago people literally just talked about Russians and North Americans who found their overseas experience very difficult because of the many differences between the countries

 

[lawrence]

Did you read Lupul

I didn't say culture shock is not allowed, I just said cultures shock shouldn't be the reason why a player didn't or wasn't good enough to make the NHL. Lupul was only in the KHL during the lockout and he's already a fully developed NHL player.

Chistov and Smirnov

guys were just not good enough to make the NHL. Chistov had a questionable 2 way game, Lots of Canadians and europeans go through this too.

A player doesn't need to come out and verbally say to the public this is why I failed, the stats of those who came to NA early and failed tell the whole story.

what is too early though? some players bust and work out regardless of coming to early or not, Khucerov came over when he was 20.

 

[Stephen]

Name me 1 Russian player that used culture shock as an excuse of not making it to the nhl. you name one I take the loss. Be great if you provide a source.

Hockey players who don't make the NHL, Russian or otherwise, are not usually interviewed extensively on why they didn't make it...

 

[lawrence]

Hockey players who don't make the NHL, Russian or otherwise, are not usually interviewed extensively on why they didn't make it...

I just asked for proof that culture shock was a reason why a player couldn’t make the cut.

 

[thefutures]

So they won’t work out as players because of this? I’m being told more and more Russians are going through some sort of Culture shock and this is the reason why there are fewer Russians turning out into nhl players because they arrived to North America too early and the ahl is and no go for them.. Seems like only an issue with Russians. Any other European fans out there that can say the same about younger players from your country ?

My country is Canada... I can't speak for every foreign prospect but I can understand how it might be uncomfortable moving across the world indefinitely in your teenage years and be expected to be a fit wherever you land.

 

[Zine]

I just asked for proof that culture shock was a reason why a player couldn’t make the cut.

It's a difficult transition but most guys have the fortitude to push through. Some don't. Others can't.
Shipachyov is a recent good example. Talent wise he's NHL caliber but refused to put in the work needed to adapt on ice, and he wasn't happy off it. He told a story about his kid getting sick in the middle of the night and not being able to buy medicine. He aimlessly drove around Vegas at 2am (not knowing the language or what an American pharmacy looks like) trying to find baby cough medicine. As a parent, that'd be a awful situation to be in. He wanted out of Vegas and even had the opportunity to be traded, but said screw it I'm done.
Someone who adapted well on the ice was Sushinsky. But he and his wife were miserable off it. He left after 30 games in Minnesota.
Historically Krutov would be the most notable. He thoroughly fell apart in Vancouver.

 

[lawrence]

My country is Canada... I can't speak for every foreign prospect but I can understand how it might be uncomfortable moving across the world indefinitely in your teenage years and be expected to be a fit wherever you land.

i'm not saying they are not allowed to have some sort of culture shock, i'm saying Culture shock shouldn't be a reason why a european player wasn't good enough to play in the NHL.

It's a difficult transition but most guys have the fortitude to push through. Some don't. Others can't.
Shipachyov is a recent good example. Talent wise he's NHL caliber but refused to put in the work needed to adapt on ice, and he wasn't happy off it. He told a story about his kid getting sick in the middle of the night and not being able to buy medicine. He aimlessly drove around Vegas at 2am (not knowing the language or what an American pharmacy looks like) trying to find baby cough medicine. As a parent, that'd be a awful situation to be in. He wanted out of Vegas and even had the opportunity to be traded, but said screw it I'm done.
Someone who adapted well on the ice was Sushinsky. But he and his wife were miserable off it. He left after 30 games in Minnesota.
Historically Krutov would be the most notable. He thoroughly fell apart in Vancouver.

there are examples of players who just didn't work out, and there are players that absolutely had success going through the AHL or coming here to North America at a young age at hopes of playing in the NHL.

 

[Spade]

i'm not saying they are not allowed to have some sort of culture shock, i'm saying Culture shock shouldn't be a reason why a european player wasn't good enough to play in the NHL.



there are examples of players who just didn't work out, and there are players that absolutely had success going through the AHL or coming here to North America at a young age at hopes of playing in the NHL.

I can take you to Russia and tell you to go through school there right now, if you'd like. No excuses for failing everything except English, of course, culture shock isn't an excuse to not do well!

Culture shock on its own will not make or break a player after a certain point of talent level (as seen by Malkin) but for the 99.9% of non-superstar talent players on the cusp who could swing one way or the other, the difference between feeling comfortable in your living situation and able to approach each day with some energy versus waking up in unfamiliar lands with no friends, family, or support, unable to speak the language and feeling lonely and miserable can absolutely have an impact on development.

And if you're asking for proof, look no further than 4th overall pick Jesse Puljujarvi, who was a can't miss prospect who didn't speak English well, didn't have any mentors in Edmonton who spoke Finnish to help him adjust and now is struggling just to make the NHL roster fulltime. That's a Finnish prospect to boot.

Imagine going to work but every day you have to somehow communicate with coworkers who can only speak Korean and the only Korean you know is from listening to the occasional Kpop song on iHeart Radio. That's basically what these guys go through. Becomes very tough to make plans and succeed.

 

[Tripod]

I can take you to Russia and tell you to go through school there right now, if you'd like. No excuses for failing everything except English, of course, culture shock isn't an excuse to not do well!

Culture shock on its own will not make or break a player after a certain point of talent level (as seen by Malkin) but for the 99.9% of non-superstar talent players on the cusp who could swing one way or the other, the difference between feeling comfortable in your living situation and able to approach each day with some energy versus waking up in unfamiliar lands with no friends, family, or support, unable to speak the language and feeling lonely and miserable can absolutely have an impact on development.

And if you're asking for proof, look no further than 4th overall pick Jesse Puljujarvi, who was a can't miss prospect who didn't speak English well, didn't have any mentors in Edmonton who spoke Finnish to help him adjust and now is struggling just to make the NHL roster fulltime. That's a Finnish prospect to boot.

Imagine going to work but every day you have to somehow communicate with coworkers who can only speak Korean and the only Korean you know is from listening to the occasional Kpop song on iHeart Radio. That's basically what these guys go through. Becomes very tough to make plans and succeed.

I will say though, if you are an aspiring NHLer, it's on you to learn English and the earlier the better. These players, whether it be Finnish, Russian, etc... know that in the NHL, they will have to know some English. To not put the effort into learning it falls on them and they only have themselves to blame.

 

[ag3r]

i'm not saying they are not allowed to have some sort of culture shock, i'm saying Culture shock shouldn't be a reason why a european player wasn't good enough to play in the NHL.

there are examples of players who just didn't work out, and there are players that absolutely had success going through the AHL or coming here to North America at a young age at hopes of playing in the NHL.

If you are not Malkin, there are dozens of American and Canadian players who may be a bit worse than you. But while you trying to understand what's going on here, they are speaking with coaches, understand coaches, hang up with teammates and players from other teams and getting good night sleep and rest. And you are adapting. Therefore in a highly competitive environment culture shock could be a major factor because even small advantage will tip the scales

 

[Spade]

I will say though, if you are an aspiring NHLer, it's on you to learn English and the earlier the better. These players, whether it be Finnish, Russian, etc... know that in the NHL, they will have to know some English. To not put the effort into learning it falls on them and they only have themselves to blame.

Which is also true and why this is more nuanced. Some guys are capable of learning languages really easily. Some guys are capable but need some effort because they don't have a natural affinity for language learning. Some are capable but don't put in any effort whatsoever. And some are almost naturally incapable of learning a second language, just based on their brain. It has nothing to do with intelligence, everyone's neural pathways has differences based on genetics and lifestyle and most people are better at learning certain things than others. I still believe you should put in the work to make the barrier go away if that's still truly your end goal, but I also don't blame the guys who wash out because of said difficulties.

If I'm running an NHL team (spoilers, I'm not) I would prioritize that kind of learning support because the overall costs it would take to run versus the potential results could be the difference between finding 1 NHLer or finding 2 or 3, and those results can have a net swing of millions of dollars in net profit later on. But we can't pretend that the language barrier and the culture barrier doesn't make a difference in work production efficiency and happiness when there's hundreds of studies that state exactly that in the business and scientific world from observing the thousands of multinational corporations that exist.

 

[BB06]

Culture talk aside. Dude is beasting looks like Jarmo pulled another one out of his hat

 

[lawrence]

Jesse Puljujarvi, who was a can't miss prospect

horrible just a god awful example. He didn’t do well because he was tired of trying hard and thought he was good enough to not play in the ahl. Demanded a trade. No one wanted him. No one wants a spoiled brat that doesn’t want to play in the ahl when they are not nhl ready. Nothing to do with culture shock.

He’s since smartened up and willing to give the nhl another try.

 

[Spade]

horrible just a god awful example. He didn’t do well because he was tired of trying hard and thought he was good enough to not play in the ahl. Demanded a trade. No one wanted him. No one wants a spoiled brat that doesn’t want to play in the ahl when they are not nhl ready. Nothing to do with culture shock.

He’s since smartened up and willing to give the nhl another try.

I have given you an example. Like stated earlier, everything is a mix and a big part of Puljujarvi not succeeding his first go around was a lack of integration into the locker room. A lot of these guys you say are lazy and entitled, Yakupov, Filatov, Chistov, etc, all of that has to do with a lack of integration into the room and a big part of that comes down to cultural barriers and language barriers that weren't broken down. A kid who is properly a part of the locker room generally ends up well adjusted because the vets will have taken care of any entitlement.

You're sitting here already having made your opinion so I could give you another dozen guys who washed out due in part to cultural barriers to entry but you'll just stick your head in the sand because you're unwilling to entertain any evidence contrary to your opinion no matter how many articles I would pull out.

To reiterate my point, culture shock is never the only reason, but it leads to and is symptomatic of other issues that can be exacerbated and causes issues later on. Those issues left unresolved end up leading a lot of players out of the NHL. I don't believe that kids are naturally predisposed to be NHLers or not based on natural talent alone, so when I'm tracking precedence and looking for the answers to why things happen a lot comes down to the development process one they get to North America, and kids who come from vastly different lifestyles or lack English language skills tend to struggle on the initial transition to NA pro leagues more than Joe Buck from Mississauga or David Akers from Boston.