RW Oliver Bjorkstrand (2013, 89th, CBJ)

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I don't think it is unbelievable that he was "overlooked". His point totals and performance can easily have been attributed to the quality of that team. He was much more timid and a peripheral player, as well as being seriously behind the curve in his skating. I don't think there was as much denial in his skill level, but he didn't look like he had the other qualities that one attributes to being successful at the next level.

Obviously, he has righted some of these problems. He's grown a couple inches, improved his skating, and become a player more willing to go to the dirty areas (which may just have been an adjustment from European game to NA game.)

He's a hot prospect for sure but he's still not a guaranteed for sure thing at the NHL level. He will have to prove that he can play against men, get bigger, continue to improve his skating, improve his play away from the puck etc. Just like most junior players.

All that said, he is a fantastic prospect, who would most certainly get drafted much, much higher if teams had actual crystal balls.

Well to be honest, he didn't put up a ton of points in his draft year (0.96 PPG) and was pretty small.

No one knew he was gonna grow and put up a ton of points in his +1 year. Now a days, drafting outside the Top 50 is just dumb luck (unless your Detroit, I honestly don't know how those ******** do it) , and the Blue Jackets got lucky.

Isn't the whole point of scouts getting paid money to watch hockey that they should have some sort of grasp on realistic projections for these players though? I mean, don't get me wrong, you can't predict everything and it's pretty hard to gauge how a player is going to develop sometimes but overall I am very surprised at not only Bjorkstrand but several other players that scouts projected completely wrong where even I, not a hockey expert by any means, could see that those guys would be players. Sure, he's not in the NHL yet and anything can happen still, but he's trending extremely well.

It's just a headscratcher for me personally how scouts a lot of the time seem to value lesser skilled players higher than people who have a ton of hockey sense and skill just because they are "big" or "mean" or "really good defensively". Skill and hockey IQ are the two things you can't teach. Using a skating coach, watching video on how to play defense and a good workout program can take care of pretty much everything else.
 
there aren't too many guys that have put up those kind of consistent goal totals in the dub.

what are the chances that he makes it out of camp as a top 9?
 
there aren't too many guys that have put up those kind of consistent goal totals in the dub.

what are the chances that he makes it out of camp as a top 9?

Next year? very slim. He'll play in Springfield to get used to the pro game and work on his strength. CBJ has a lot of long term deals in their top 9. While they do need RW help, from what little I have seen I don't think Bjorkstrand is strong enough to play in the NHL as a full time player in a top 9 scenario just yet. Huge potential but I just don't see him pushing others out yet. He's behind Rychel and Dano for RW duty I would think and with Atkinson just signing for 3 years Bjorkstrand is probably not going to push ahead of any of them just yet and Rychel remains in Springfield right now.
 
Isn't the whole point of scouts getting paid money to watch hockey that they should have some sort of grasp on realistic projections for these players though? I mean, don't get me wrong, you can't predict everything and it's pretty hard to gauge how a player is going to develop sometimes but overall I am very surprised at not only Bjorkstrand but several other players that scouts projected completely wrong where even I, not a hockey expert by any means, could see that those guys would be players. Sure, he's not in the NHL yet and anything can happen still, but he's trending extremely well.

It's just a headscratcher for me personally how scouts a lot of the time seem to value lesser skilled players higher than people who have a ton of hockey sense and skill just because they are "big" or "mean" or "really good defensively". Skill and hockey IQ are the two things you can't teach. Using a skating coach, watching video on how to play defense and a good workout program can take care of pretty much everything else.

Overall I think you have it backwards.

1 - The projections by scouts are realistic, based on the evidence they have at the time - you are judging these scouts in hindsight - by factors that have changed since that time. Even the Blue Jackets scouts drafted FOUR other players before Bjorkstrand. There are a lot of factors about Bjorkstrand (which I already mentioned) which meant that there were 88 other players projected to be better NHL players. You are judging children based upon sets of incomplete analysis and that is the way it will always be. Moving the draft age to 21 would make it more accurate but probably still not 100% so. It is unrealistic to expect it to be so. How development will go is a complete guess and any suggestion that it is otherwise is a mistake. And guesses are just that: guesses.

2 - Firstly skill and hockey IQ is largely taught, learned and practiced - so I think you are wrong that someone like Bjorkstrand came out of the womb with a great wrist shot. Sure, with most players you are able to judge skill levels or potential skill levels by the time players are 17, but not always. And skill isn't the biggest single factor in making an NHL player, its just part of the package. There are plenty of high scoring players in the NHL with very limited skill - because they use other factors, including skating, meanness, grittiness, and size to do so. Heck, I can think of players like Brett Hull and Luc Robitaille who were one skill ponies who did little else. Hall of Famer types.

3 - Skating coaches do not always improve skating to a level good enough for the NHL. The AHL is full of players who cannot keep up to the speed of the NHL, even if they have a ton of skill. The AHL, KHL are full of players with more skill than other players who play 1000 games in the NHL. Skill isn't everything. And while skating isn't everything, it is one of the bigger detriments to a potential NHL career.

4 - Meanness/Toughness is one of the factors that cannot be taught. Its an innate personality trait - some people are just incapable of it. Size is a genetic trait and overall it is a major factor in the NHL. A good workout program is never going to make a 5'10", 150lb player into a 6'2", 225lb'er if the genetics are not there.

5 - Plenty of players are just never big enough to handle the type of play in the NHL. This is a fact. For every Gaudreau that makes it there are hundreds who will not because they cannot handle (or avoid) the physical play against players who average 6'1" + and 205lbs+ and are often much, much larger.

6 - Situation is a major factor which distorts viewing. Players on powerhouse teams easily get overrated because they're playing with other great players. Equally they can get underrated in the same situation. Players may play on weaker teams that hide their potential upside (Monahan) or they might play in an underscouted league or country. They may even be over scouted and have their game nitpicked apart (undrafted players like Tanner Pearson or Mark Giordano for example).

7 - There are 30 NHL teams that wish they could teach defense just by making a player watch a video.

8 - Get a job with the Maple Leafs. They could use you!

EDIT: Personally I think Bjorkstrand has grown tremendously as a player since his draft. This is a more important factor for his rise to prominence, as opposed to the fact that scouts suck.
 
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Definitely don't see him making a jump to the NHL next year.

He will need at least a year in the NHL to really bulk up and get a step faster. He will never be a big punishing player but he really will need to get some more meat on his bones before he will have a chance to make an NHL roster.

I read somewhere earlier this winter about how he tries to eat as much as he can. It sounds like in general he has trouble adding weight due to a high metabolism. Once he gets a bit older and that slows down that should go a long way, too.
 
Overall I think you have it backwards.

1 - The projections by scouts are realistic, based on the evidence they have at the time - you are judging these scouts in hindsight - by factors that have changed since that time. Even the Blue Jackets scouts drafted FOUR other players before Bjorkstrand. There are a lot of factors about Bjorkstrand (which I already mentioned) which meant that there were 88 other players projected to be better NHL players. You are judging children based upon sets of incomplete analysis and that is the way it will always be. Moving the draft age to 21 would make it more accurate but probably still not 100% so. It is unrealistic to expect it to be so. How development will go is a complete guess and any suggestion that it is otherwise is a mistake. And guesses are just that: guesses.

2 - Firstly skill and hockey IQ is largely taught, learned and practiced - so I think you are wrong that someone like Bjorkstrand came out of the womb with a great wrist shot. Sure, with most players you are able to judge skill levels or potential skill levels by the time players are 17, but not always. And skill isn't the biggest single factor in making an NHL player, its just part of the package. There are plenty of high scoring players in the NHL with very limited skill - because they use other factors, including skating, meanness, grittiness, and size to do so. Heck, I can think of players like Brett Hull and Luc Robitaille who were one skill ponies who did little else. Hall of Famer types.

3 - Skating coaches do not always improve skating to a level good enough for the NHL. The AHL is full of players who cannot keep up to the speed of the NHL, even if they have a ton of skill. The AHL, KHL are full of players with more skill than other players who play 1000 games in the NHL. Skill isn't everything. And while skating isn't everything, it is one of the bigger detriments to a potential NHL career.

4 - Meanness/Toughness is one of the factors that cannot be taught. Its an innate personality trait - some people are just incapable of it. Size is a genetic trait and overall it is a major factor in the NHL. A good workout program is never going to make a 5'10", 150lb player into a 6'2", 225lb'er if the genetics are not there.

5 - Plenty of players are just never big enough to handle the type of play in the NHL. This is a fact. For every Gaudreau that makes it there are hundreds who will not because they cannot handle (or avoid) the physical play against players who average 6'1" + and 205lbs+ and are often much, much larger.

6 - Situation is a major factor which distorts viewing. Players on powerhouse teams easily get overrated because they're playing with other great players. Equally they can get underrated in the same situation. Players may play on weaker teams that hide their potential upside (Monahan) or they might play in an underscouted league or country. They may even be over scouted and have their game nitpicked apart (undrafted players like Tanner Pearson or Mark Giordano for example).

7 - There are 30 NHL teams that wish they could teach defense just by making a player watch a video.

8 - Get a job with the Maple Leafs. They could use you!

EDIT: Personally I think Bjorkstrand has grown tremendously as a player since his draft. This is a more important factor for his rise to prominence, as opposed to the fact that scouts suck.

You bring up some good points but overall I think you're oversimplifying what I'm saying while not doing the same with the points you bring up. For instance, you say being mean or toughness is an innate trait that can't be teached and that is true, but the problem is when you trade in that toughness factor for skill. A guy who is big and tough but have problems producing at the junior level isn't just suddenly going to "get it" and start being a productive player in pro hockey. You can't teach a big and mean player how to be more productive. The "skill" I was referring to is better explained as "instincts". A skilled offensive player doesn't have to think about what he has to do, he just knows what to do automatically. It's extremely rare that a big guy who doesn't produce in his draft year suddenly turns it on later in his career. I'd much rather take my chances on a skilled offensive player being able to round out his skating or learn how to play proper defense.

Also, this isn't about hindsight. I think you can probably find posts from me here on HF talking about Bjorkstrand and how much I liked him in his draftyear. I think people around here give way too much cred to scouts. Me personally think a lot of them are doing a bad job and only very few organizations in the NHL takes the process seriously. There's many teams in the league who has terrible draft records outside the 1st round and then there's some that have amazing records outside the 1st round. Sure, some of it can be attributed to luck but 90% of it comes from good, solid scouting (and a good development process too, of course). It's not a coincidence some teams consistently find gems in the later rounds that down the road contributes to their roster while other teams have maybe one or less.

Here's a good quote that should tell you a little bit about scouting and how "serious" some NHL teams look at it.

i am a scout myself for a QMJHL team and i know a lot of NHL scouts and i have to say, why not listen to the fan, what makes the scout more knowledgeable, after all most of the teams scouts are there because of contacts and not how good they really are at the job....a lot of scouts at all levels go to the rinks just to converse and to hang around with friends (other scouts they know)....scouts listen to fans (they do prowl the post boards, so do not kid yourself on that one, it is free information, why not use it.

A knowledgeable fan who watches a decent amount of games know what they are talking about and just because a person does not work for a team does not mean he is any less as knowledgable as guys who do...........
.
 
What Bjorkstrand doing in WHL just as impressive as what Mantha did last year in the Q, or less?
 
Overall I think you have it backwards.

1 - The projections by scouts are realistic, based on the evidence they have at the time - you are judging these scouts in hindsight - by factors that have changed since that time. Even the Blue Jackets scouts drafted FOUR other players before Bjorkstrand. There are a lot of factors about Bjorkstrand (which I already mentioned) which meant that there were 88 other players projected to be better NHL players. You are judging children based upon sets of incomplete analysis and that is the way it will always be. Moving the draft age to 21 would make it more accurate but probably still not 100% so. It is unrealistic to expect it to be so. How development will go is a complete guess and any suggestion that it is otherwise is a mistake. And guesses are just that: guesses.

2 - Firstly skill and hockey IQ is largely taught, learned and practiced - so I think you are wrong that someone like Bjorkstrand came out of the womb with a great wrist shot. Sure, with most players you are able to judge skill levels or potential skill levels by the time players are 17, but not always. And skill isn't the biggest single factor in making an NHL player, its just part of the package. There are plenty of high scoring players in the NHL with very limited skill - because they use other factors, including skating, meanness, grittiness, and size to do so. Heck, I can think of players like Brett Hull and Luc Robitaille who were one skill ponies who did little else. Hall of Famer types.

3 - Skating coaches do not always improve skating to a level good enough for the NHL. The AHL is full of players who cannot keep up to the speed of the NHL, even if they have a ton of skill. The AHL, KHL are full of players with more skill than other players who play 1000 games in the NHL. Skill isn't everything. And while skating isn't everything, it is one of the bigger detriments to a potential NHL career.

4 - Meanness/Toughness is one of the factors that cannot be taught. Its an innate personality trait - some people are just incapable of it. Size is a genetic trait and overall it is a major factor in the NHL. A good workout program is never going to make a 5'10", 150lb player into a 6'2", 225lb'er if the genetics are not there.

5 - Plenty of players are just never big enough to handle the type of play in the NHL. This is a fact. For every Gaudreau that makes it there are hundreds who will not because they cannot handle (or avoid) the physical play against players who average 6'1" + and 205lbs+ and are often much, much larger.

6 - Situation is a major factor which distorts viewing. Players on powerhouse teams easily get overrated because they're playing with other great players. Equally they can get underrated in the same situation. Players may play on weaker teams that hide their potential upside (Monahan) or they might play in an underscouted league or country. They may even be over scouted and have their game nitpicked apart (undrafted players like Tanner Pearson or Mark Giordano for example).

7 - There are 30 NHL teams that wish they could teach defense just by making a player watch a video.

8 - Get a job with the Maple Leafs. They could use you!

EDIT: Personally I think Bjorkstrand has grown tremendously as a player since his draft. This is a more important factor for his rise to prominence, as opposed to the fact that scouts suck.

Excellent points !
 
1 goal/3 assists tonite. Takes the WHL scoring lead.

He has 36 goals in 27 games since he got back from the WJHC. Completely insane.
 
Something must have cliked for him at the WJC because he has been on an absoulte tear since christmas. I would imagine that leading your country to its first WJC win would boost the confidence... 3 goals and 6 assists for 9 points in 3 games this weekend - which is roughly the clip he has been producing at for the last few months.
 
He also clearly has the best +/- in the WHL;

Bjorkstrand (Portland): +58
Tambellini (Calgary): +45
Colby Williams (Regina): +44
McGauley (Brandon): +43
 
Wonder if he has a shot of making the team next year, he obviously needs to put on some more muscle in the offseason. No reason to rush him either but just very impressive numbers hes putting up
 
Yes, he has a shot. RW is a big weak spot for Columbus, even when 100% healthy. But 10 more solid pounds would give him a much, much better chance.
 
I've seen him a lot and I hope they don't rush him. Just because they are thin on RW doesn't mean that should increase his chances. He needs to get bigger, stronger and faster.

I could easily see him scoring 15-20 goals as a rookie following one year in the AHL.
 
Isn't the whole point of scouts getting paid money to watch hockey that they should have some sort of grasp on realistic projections for these players though? I mean, don't get me wrong, you can't predict everything and it's pretty hard to gauge how a player is going to develop sometimes but overall I am very surprised at not only Bjorkstrand but several other players that scouts projected completely wrong where even I, not a hockey expert by any means, could see that those guys would be players. Sure, he's not in the NHL yet and anything can happen still, but he's trending extremely well.

It's just a headscratcher for me personally how scouts a lot of the time seem to value lesser skilled players higher than people who have a ton of hockey sense and skill just because they are "big" or "mean" or "really good defensively". Skill and hockey IQ are the two things you can't teach. Using a skating coach, watching video on how to play defense and a good workout program can take care of pretty much everything else.

I totally agree, as you said you do not know how a player will developed, but it is not very hard to see the skills. It feels like they trying to be to smart. I think a random fan would do just as good if not better then most of the scouts.

The worst in my mind is that a team and their scouts get credits when they drafting a player in the late rounds (even if he show up a lot of talent before the draft), that later becomes a success. The scouts should see it as a failure when the low drafted become much better then most of the ones above him, because then they where wrong. After all, most do not get even close to NHL, so picking some player in the late rounds do give the signals that they do not really believe in him as NHL player in the future or even close to it.
 
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I think a random fan would do just as good if not better then most of the scouts.

So a random fan who has never watched any of the players live but read a couple threads on HF should be in the actual ones picking future players for NHL teams?

People who think this have no idea what is involved in scouting or evaluating players. This is a profession which involves an incredible amount of knowledge and experience and understanding of hockey and hockey players, the science and art of the sport, the development of players in the future. They earn a living trying to predict the future, an incredibly difficult thing to do (unless you are a keyboard warrior who can see the future like you suggest.)

To suggest that random fans are better than professionals is demeaning to those who make a living doing it. And you are very, very wrong.

Bjorkstrand has developed tremendously and has a ton more opportunity than in his draft year. He's now fully adapted to North America and not a timid 17 year old anymore. Drafting is not just about skill. Its also about the ability to perform and to handle playing in the NHL. At 17, there were many negatives to consider. That has more to do with his draft position than scouts de-valuing his skill level.
 
Teams often defer taking players because they are certain other teams won't take them.

For instance, Marko Dano was highly thought of by Jarmo. He was a player Jarmo was keeping an eye on even before being made the GM of Columbus. Jarmo was reasonably sure he could wait until the late 20's and Dano would still be there, so he did.
 
I totally agree, as you said you do not know how a player will developed, but it is not very hard to see the skills. It feels like they trying to be to smart. I think a random fan would do just as good if not better then most of the scouts.

The worst in my mind is that a team and their scouts get credits when they drafting a player in the late rounds (even if he show up a lot of talent before the draft), that later becomes a success. The scouts should see it as a failure when the low drafted become much better then most of the ones above him, because then they where wrong. After all, most do not get even close to NHL, so picking some player in the late rounds do give the signals that they do not really believe in him as NHL player in the future or even close to it.

Eh...not sure I agree with that in the slightest.

Sure, there is a lot of room for improvement in scouting and drafting but I think you are very much oversimplifying the job a scout does.
 

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