RW Matvei Michkov - SKA-1946 St.Petersburg, MHL (2023 Draft)

[kp61c]

I'm pretty sure they care about their child' two main goals - NHL and Olympic gold.

and about peace on earth

 

[Fantomas]

If i am not mistaken his family is pretty poor. It is beneficial for Michkov and his family.
I don't think they give a damn about the nhl or "us, russians", some financial stability is paramount for them now.

No, you see - their decision is based on a false consciousness. They're being duped!

 

[Fantomas]

It would have be pretty difficult for Ovechkin to have made his NHL debut in 2004-05. Considering he scored a 106 points and was absolute beast he would have likely been plenty productive as a 19 year old if had a chance to play.

All that lost time to due to lockouts and now COVID is just takes away Ovechkin’s chance to set NHL records and cement and even greater legacy. It’s up to a player if their potential achievements in the NHL matter to them but no one cares about any KHL records outside of Russia.

LOL. Michkov should have said no to this contract in case 20 years from now he has a chance to break an NHL record.

Logical stuff.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

This isn't backed up by anything. Besides Ovechkin was 20 when he made his NHL debut.

Due to being born on September 17, and the the lockout. He would've played in the NHL at 18 years old, if he was eligible. Michkov will arrive at 21, nearly 22, at the earliest. You are right that it isn't backed up by anything other than my opinion, but is it something you'd really want to test to see if Michkov is impeded with his further development by the contract he signed? He could've signed for a further two years, and then decided after that.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

One more time. Draft means nothing. For players is much beneficial to get undrafted.

Stop using a draft as an argument. It means nothing to us.

First of all, draft/no-draft is irrelevant, and bringing it up obfuscates the point. Michkov is considered a top-talent that many believe could be an impact player in the best league in the league as soon as he's eligible. If he has to wait a further three years playing against inferior competition, that might hurt his development.

Second of all, why would you think you matter in any of this? Just because you are Russian doesn't mean your selfish reasons are good for Michkov. It should not matter that Russians want to watch Michkov play in person or at a good hour of the day for their schedule.

I think when it comes to prospects that fans should advocate what's best for the prospect, not what's best for themselves. With football I don't want players to stay at home because I can watch them play in person or I can watch them at the most opportune time of day. I want them to succeed and further their footballing careers. If what you cared about is Michkov furthering his hockey career, you wouldn't bring your own interests into this.

 

[Atas2000]

LOL. Michkov should have said no to this contract in case 20 years from now he has a chance to break an NHL record.

Logical stuff.

The fun part is from a risk management perspective it is an option. He is projected to become the second coming of a generational superstar of your choosing. Based on those projections he of course could choose the option of a short term smaller contract to make his pile of money as the next SUPERSTAR. What people don't want to accept, that it is a high risk(high reward) option. And on the other hand he gets offered a pro-contract as a present for his 16th birthday basically. Something no other 16 year old can dream of. And it is long term obviously. The team wants to have some reward too. This is for him as low risk option. He is settled for at least five years(if he wants too. KHL contracts are terminated on various terms left and right). And the reward is not at all low as many try to picture it. Of course based on expectations he would get more... on a NHL ELC(so not really much more). But based on expectations there was that guy Kabanov(11pts in 5 games on the U17 NT) the next great player out of Russia. Who knows if he signed such a contract at 16, it could have been life changing for him. Instead he opted to move... and move... and move... to playing in Denmark in his prime. But at 16 he was projected to be breaking all those shiny records.

 

[Guttersniped]

I wrote a few words on this topic, so read my previous post in this tread.

Before judging others, look at yourself. All North American (at least hockey) sport is based on a system when a player, by using your words, is locked up ... do you know how many players would benefit if they were absolutely free to sign with any NHL team? I am saying about draft & RFAs. But fine, it is not illegal in your legal system. On the other hand, it is very negative for players.

The European sports culture is based on a principle that the clubs develop their prospects since a very early age. They finance all this development. It is common practice in European football that young players sign a long-term contract. The sum of that contract can be re-negotiated anytime. Yes, it is not common in hockey because young players use to move to North America as early as possible without taking into account the position of the clubs developing them. I give you just two examples, or three. Tatar, Hertl, Malkin. All had a valid contract with their European club when moving to the NHL. Why is it so much problem for the NHL clubs to pay millions of dollars for the European based player? For example, Russians wanted just one million of dollars for Malkin, still the NHL & their club was greedy enough not to pay it.

You are asking who is protecting the collective KHL players interests. I am asking who is protecting the collective interests of European clubs? The system needs to be balanced, players have rights, but also clubs. And the most principal right of any club is to get fair financial compensation for developing of a player (+ all other potential value of a player).

Coming to Michkov. Is that a problem for NHL club to come to SKA and proposed a few millions of dollars for releasing him? Yeah, the NHL is used to a situation when getting the European players for free. But why should SKA or Russia as a country (you are referring to U23 law) care what the NHL wants?

I’m not concerned with what the NHL might want. I think this a crap longterm deal considering how much money Michkov could make in the NHL and where he will be in terms of development in the few years. He can want to stay in the KHL forever if he wants, it doesn’t change the crappiness of the deal. Again I’m not criticizing Michkov or family for signing it, he’s very young so his thinking it’s fair now is not a selling point to me but it’s his life and decision.

Players benefit from collective bargaining and wouldn’t benefit at all as a whole from individual negotiations. I even googled the KHL Players Trade Union, but that’s honestly a bigger rabbit hole than I want to go down.

If you think this a great longterm deal for Michkov, that’s not wildly one-sided in favor of SKA, then I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. You don’t have throw things that the NHL as a counterpoint, this isn’t debate club and I’m not in love with the NHL and the team owners. I’m just commenting on the contract.

 

[Guttersniped]

The fun part is from a risk management perspective it is an option. He is projected to become the second coming of a generational superstar of your choosing. Based on those projections he of course could choose the option of a short term smaller contract to make his pile of money as the next SUPERSTAR. What people don't want to accept, that it is a high risk(high reward) option. And on the other hand he gets offered a pro-contract as a present for his 16th birthday basically. Something no other 16 year old can dream of. And it is long term obviously. The team wants to have some reward too. This is for him as low risk option. He is settled for at least five years(if he wants too. KHL contracts are terminated on various terms left and right). And the reward is not at all low as many try to picture it. Of course based on expectations he would get more... on a NHL ELC(so not really much more). But based on expectations there was that guy Kabanov(11pts in 5 games on the U17 NT) the next great player out of Russia. Who knows if he signed such a contract at 16, it could have been life changing for him. Instead he opted to move... and move... and move... to playing in Denmark in his prime. But at 16 he was projected to be breaking all those shiny records.

I have to say I find your argument that a 16 year old m should be grateful for this crap contract because he’s only 16 is particularly gross. This kid is selling his future cheap to get money now. SKA will get an enormous amount of reward with basically almost no risk.

And someone already addressed your point about what he could make in the NHL.

How so?

So let's assume that he's a 1st overall player and performs like one in NHL.

Now:
Season:
1 KHL
2 KHL
3 KHL
4 ELC(2-3mil inc bonus)
5 ELC(2-3mil inc bonus)

If he didn't sign past 22-23:
Season:
1 ELC(2-3mil inc bonus)
2 ELC(2-3mil inc bonus)
3 ELC(2-3mil inc bonus)
4 Extension(10mil?)
5 Extension(10mil?)

KHL would need to pay quite handsomely for it to be beneficial financially, like best-paid player in KHL handsomely. And that's quite unlikely for a player who just turned 16.

What this contract signifies is one of:
1. He's being dumb(most likely)
2. He's not confident in his ability and wants insurance
3. He prefers living in Russia over North America just that much

 

[vvann]

I’m not concerned with what the NHL might want. I think this a crap longterm deal considering how much money Michkov could make in the NHL and where he will be in terms of development in the few years. He can want to stay in the KHL forever if he wants, it doesn’t change the crappiness of the deal. Again I’m not criticizing Michkov or family for signing it, he’s very young so his thinking it’s fair now is not a selling point to me but it’s his life and decision.

Players benefit from collective bargaining and wouldn’t benefit at all as a whole from individual negotiations. I even googled the KHL Players Trade Union, but that’s honestly a bigger rabbit hole than I want to go down.

If you think this a great longterm deal for Michkov, that’s not wildly one-sided in favor of SKA, then I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. You don’t have throw things that the NHL as a counterpoint, this isn’t debate club and I’m not in love with the NHL and the team owners. I’m just commenting on the contract.

We don't know what he was actually promised if he stays till 2026 Olympics. Maybe it's a gold mine ). I wouldn't be so worried about him.

 

[Atas2000]

I have to say I find your argument that a 16 year old m should be grateful for this crap contract because he’s only 16 is particularly gross. This kid is selling his future cheap to get money now. SKA will get an enormous amount of reward with basically almost no risk.

And someone already addressed your point about what he could make in the NHL.

You are probably not familiar with football. Well, it has a quite healthy leagues structure and transfer structure as well. Some teams would even use it's schools purposedly to develop young players and sell them off at a young age. The thing is, a young player that might project as a future superstar would never amount to a trasfer sum comparable to tha of an actual star player. And for goood reason. This is how a market works. At 16(and that is the age many of those football players already get moved to some big team hoping to develop them into superstars) that's the real and appropriate market worth. BECAUSE there are RISKS involved with even the best prospect out there. From health over the actual development curve to even the unrelated issues like say unexpected affection for video games.

Your risk and reward assesment is just god awful on the other hand.

1.How is this a crap contract? Literally NO ONE as I stated numerous times now would get that much at that age. Heck, nobody would even be in a position to negotiate something like that at all. He is getting way more ANY other 16 year old could dream of at this age. Why? BECAUSE his talent implies there is less RISK involved with him. But yeah, I get it, the same nerratives like Podkolzin is not treated accordingly and blah... Just made up stuff you WANT to believe for whatever reason rather than the reality.

2.This kid is selling his future not cheap, but for security. This is how markets work again. Security is not hot air and cheap talk. It has a price.(And yeah again, let's forget he is getting payed some very considerable money for someone who has done NOTHING on pro level yet. Talented AF or not.)

3."Get money now" is exactly one of the strategies for investment. And everydbody actually should be able to understand that the money you "get now" guaranteed is worth more than money you might get... or not in the future. That is what risk management is about. Also the further you go ithe future the greater the risks obviously.

4.What exactly is the "enormous reward" on SKA's part? SKA is a KHL team first and foremost, rememeber? Their goal is KHL success. When is the kid projected(not guaranteed) to start producing at KHL level at least on a level of a KHL regular and not an occasional toss in 13th forward joker? Yes, he is a great talent and all. Ovechkin had 15 points in 40 games at age 17. That's great for a 17 year old, but as a contribution to team success that's pretty pedestrian. So it's either you claim he is that much better than Ovechkin, so he will be a PPG player in the KHL next season(he won't) or he is still a couple of years away from being a solid KHL contributor. That is more likely and realistic. So there is like three seasons of KHL hockey at best(I am yawning repeating to the NA crowd again and again that they need to look into how different contracts work in KHL and NHL before EVER commenting and look silly)of which two(and the most unpredictable ones) are supposed to great to stellar. For that kind of unguaranteed reward they are paying a pretty decent price(and let's not even dicuss the fact that the NHL just codified the exact situation you are trying to critisize, i.e. teams getting some early years of superstars on cheap ELCs. But when a KHL team tries to get something out of signing a projected future star early it's somehow baaaaaad and wrong of him not going into the whole NHL/ELC situation instead).

5.Yeah, SKA has no risk commiting 85 Mil to a player who might just get the wrong girlfriend and lose interest in hockey for all we know or God forbid get injured or just not pan out as planned. Sure.

6.Whatever he could make in the NHL is not guaranteed. I could fly to the Moon in 5 years. It is not guaranteed either. But to be fair again. The ELC alone ia a big part of the equation. If he was able to get some 10+ Mil contract at 18, then we might be talking about risks outweighed by a very high reward(still not forgetting all the uncertainties).

 

[ViD]

I think mods need to take some action here, I can’t find any player performance related news in last several pages

 

[Fantomas]

Due to being born on September 17, and the the lockout.

Yes, I know. And staying in the KHL longer didn't ruin Ovechkin, did it?

 

[Fantomas]

I have to say I find your argument that a 16 year old m should be grateful for this crap contract because he’s only 16 is particularly gross. This kid is selling his future cheap to get money now. SKA will get an enormous amount of reward with basically almost no risk.

And someone already addressed your point about what he could make in the NHL.

I think what's gross are the disingenuous displays of concern in posts like this.

 

[Guttersniped]

I think what's gross are the disingenuous displays of concern in posts like this.

It’s genuine. It’s not hard to do, it’s just posts here, I’m not in the streets protesting this contract. I don’t like teams screwing young players.

I’m going to bring MLB into this. One of the top young players in the game is Ronald Acuna Jr. He was Rookie of the Year and age 21 when he signed 8 year worth 100m with two extra years club options at 17m. Now that’s a lot of money but for baseball that’s actually well under market value for a star player like him. Team owners, because contracts have gotten so expensive, have started to sign very young Central and South American players, who often come from a very impoverished background, to very long lowball deals. These players will take them because while MLB rookie deals are technically three years like NHL ELC, arbitration is worse for players and teams often manipulate service time to lengthen rookie deals. And as I said with Michkov, they’re selling their future cheap for money now.

Another example was when Chicago White Sox signed Elroy Jimenez, who was still making peanuts in the minors, to six year deal worth 43m, which again is a lot money but way under market value. This is likely bad for long term health of MLB for numerous reasons, but it particularly pisses me off that these young players, who are coming out Dominican Republic or Venezuela, are getting roped into crappy long term deals while US born players make way more money. I’m only outraged within the context of pro sports of course, I don’t feel bad for them or Michkov, as I would for the suffering of ordinary people with much less resources in other contexts.

Now I’m sure more than you ever wanted to know about my take on MLB contracts but I used to that to point that if think I couldn’t care about some random 16 year old’s KHL contract you’re wrong. I don’t claim to have a lot of knowledge about this player or the KHL so I had say at this point. It’s very very very team friendly and that lopsidedness effects the player too. We see how it goes, I wish the best.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Didn't score yesterday, but still got a point on this PP goal

 

[bagsw]

If i am not mistaken his family is pretty poor. It is beneficial for Michkov and his family.
I don't think they give a damn about the nhl or "us, russians", some financial stability is paramount for them now.

Of course they were thinkin about themselves. But an outcome is pretty good for Russian hockey fans

 

[ijuka]

If i am not mistaken his family is pretty poor. It is beneficial for Michkov and his family.
I don't think they give a damn about the nhl or "us, russians", some financial stability is paramount for them now.

And a shorter contract wouldn't give financial stability?

 

[vorky]

First of all, draft/no-draft is irrelevant, and bringing it up obfuscates the point. Michkov is considered a top-talent that many believe could be an impact player in the best league in the league as soon as he's eligible. If he has to wait a further three years playing against inferior competition, that might hurt his development.

Second of all, why would you think you matter in any of this? Just because you are Russian doesn't mean your selfish reasons are good for Michkov. It should not matter that Russians want to watch Michkov play in person or at a good hour of the day for their schedule.

I think when it comes to prospects that fans should advocate what's best for the prospect, not what's best for themselves. With football I don't want players to stay at home because I can watch them play in person or I can watch them at the most opportune time of day. I want them to succeed and further their footballing careers. If what you cared about is Michkov furthering his hockey career, you wouldn't bring your own interests into this.

I have no idea why you are considering the KHL as an inferior competition.

So, Michkov has a clear path for the next six years. He can concentrate on hockey, not some other stuff like moving abroad, finding a flat, accommodation, moving from a foreign city to another foreign city, foreign language & culture etc. Now he has stability and it is very important for a player´s development.

You all guys are skipping my argument with the law. That is a new reality. No more moving to Canadian or American juniors for free.

Your NHL club has always a right to come to SKA with an offer to get Michkov earlier. Just paying a few millions of dollars to SKA. Is that such a big problem? If your NHL club believes so much in Michkov, they can pay. Any problem? It happens every day in European football & nobody has any issue with it.

As @Atas2000 says, if Michkov could sign with NHL club for 10-20 million dollars/season at the age 18, he could consider it in another way. You should ask yourself why this is not possible.

 

[vorky]

I’m not concerned with what the NHL might want. I think this a crap longterm deal considering how much money Michkov could make in the NHL and where he will be in terms of development in the few years. He can want to stay in the KHL forever if he wants, it doesn’t change the crappiness of the deal. Again I’m not criticizing Michkov or family for signing it, he’s very young so his thinking it’s fair now is not a selling point to me but it’s his life and decision.

Players benefit from collective bargaining and wouldn’t benefit at all as a whole from individual negotiations. I even googled the KHL Players Trade Union, but that’s honestly a bigger rabbit hole than I want to go down.

If you think this a great longterm deal for Michkov, that’s not wildly one-sided in favor of SKA, then I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. You don’t have throw things that the NHL as a counterpoint, this isn’t debate club and I’m not in love with the NHL and the team owners. I’m just commenting on the contract.

I asked earlier, I will ask again. Why do you just look at a player and NHL club? Why do you not consider the right of a European club developing the player? The right for monetary compensation? Is it a duty of European clubs to release their players to NHL in principle for free?

As I wrote in the previous post. Your NHL club has always a right to come to SKA with an offer to get Michkov earlier. Just paying a few millions of dollars to SKA.

 

[Caser]

 

[Fantomas]

I have no idea why you are considering the KHL as an inferior competition.

So, Michkov has a clear path for the next six years. He can concentrate on hockey, not some other stuff like moving abroad, finding a flat, accommodation, moving from a foreign city to another foreign city, foreign language & culture etc. Now he has stability and it is very important for a player´s development.

Exactly. Besides, many players opt to take their time before advancing to the NHL. College players are a good example.

A person's brain doesn't stop developing until their mid-20s. These kids are uprooted from their homes and rushed into extremely stressful environments before they're mature enough to make decisions that are right for them.

No wonder we hear about substance abuse issues in the league.

And that's all because NHL owners and fans are greedy and believe that their league should own everything.

 

[vorky]

He confirmed everything what has been written in this tread by myself & @Atas2000 & @Fantomas.

 

[Caser]

 

[wings5]

I love it, kid's got personality. Don't know about doing that stuff in the NHL though

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

Punk ass, category ND move right there.