RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 6

[Zine]

That’s why Crosby has 3 ring and Ovy only has one.

It’s also not a coincidence that the only season Ovechkin really committed to a two-way game he won a cup.

It’s not surprising to see Florida having so many deep run when your offensive leaders are also your best two-way players.

Vancouver had their deepest player run in a decade under Tocchet and could have easily be playing in the finals last year if not for weird injuries to key players.

You can’t have a well rounded, functioning team if your best players don’t fully commit to playing a two-way game. You’ll end up like the Leaf, with a few players closing in on 100 pts every season with the inability to win a best of 7 series in the playoff against a lesser talented but more committed team.

Celibrini -31 is irrelevant right now and the fact that you brought it and then doubled down on your take that Michkov should be free to do whatever he want on the ice (so that he could get as many points as possible during the regular season) tells me that no, you still don’t understand what my point is.

A 2-way game is important, but, as with anything, there's overkill. There needs to be a balance.

Bedard was one extreme; Michkov the other this past year. Good coaches maximize their players' innate talent while simultaneously requiring a well-rounded game. 2-way play shouldn't hinder creativity. It's not an all or nothing scenario, there is a gray zone. It's why different players have different roles.

I'm afraid Tocchet and Michkov will be like oil and water. Strict adherence to defense with mindless dumping and chasing appears to be Tocchets mode of operation.

 

[Baksfamous112]

A 2-way game is important, but, as with anything, there's overkill. There needs to be a balance.

Bedard was one extreme; Michkov the other this past year. Good coaches maximize their players' innate talent while simultaneously requiring a well-rounded game. 2-way play shouldn't hinder creativity. It's not an all or nothing scenario, there is a gray zone. It's why different players have different roles.

I'm afraid Tocchet and Michkov will be like oil and water. Strict adherence to defense with mindless dumping and chasing appears to be Tocchets mode of operation.

Tocchet was the head coach of Vancouver for three years. In those three years, he had two different 100 points players and a 92 points D.

You don’t get to have that kind of offensive production unless your system allows forwards to be creative.

I don’t think anyone expect Michkov to be a dominent two-way player next year but you at least need to see growth in his overall game, even if sometimes it hurts his offensive production.

You want your young guys to pick up on this as early as possible so that later on in their career when they peak they don’t need to go through that growing pain while they’re in their competitive window.

 

[Kshahdoo]

That’s why Crosby has 3 ring and Ovy only has one.

It’s also not a coincidence that the only season Ovechkin really committed to a two-way game he won a cup.

It’s not surprising to see Florida having so many deep run when your offensive leaders are also your best two-way players.

Vancouver had their deepest player run in a decade under Tocchet and could have easily be playing in the finals last year if not for weird injuries to key players.

You can’t have a well rounded, functioning team if your best players don’t fully commit to playing a two-way game. You’ll end up like the Leaf, with a few players closing in on 100 pts every season with the inability to win a best of 7 series in the playoff against a lesser talented but more committed team.

Celibrini -31 is irrelevant right now and the fact that you brought it and then doubled down on your take that Michkov should be free to do whatever he want on the ice (so that he could get as many points as possible during the regular season) tells me that no, you still don’t understand what my point is.

Lol, another fairy tale about 2-way Crosby.

And Celebrini's -31 is irrelevant only because his whole team was irrelevant. They played to get him Calder, and still probably failed.

 

[FlyguyOX]

A 2-way game is important, but, as with anything, there's overkill. There needs to be a balance.

Bedard was one extreme; Michkov the other this past year. Good coaches maximize their players' innate talent while simultaneously requiring a well-rounded game. 2-way play shouldn't hinder creativity. It's not an all or nothing scenario, there is a gray zone. It's why different players have different roles.

I'm afraid Tocchet and Michkov will be like oil and water. Strict adherence to defense with mindless dumping and chasing appears to be Tocchets mode of operation.

I think this fear is as baseless as the fear of Torts and Michkov was.

The common thread that tied(ties) these guys together into a strong relationship is the intense competitive drive. As long as he gives max effort (he does) then the coach accepts the good with the bad.

Read this article. Michkov really appreciated Torts as a coach. He will be the same with Tocc. He just wants to win and will do whatever it takes to do that:

“I Hope I’ll Have Freedom on the Ice” – Matvei Michkov Talks Bond with Tortorella, Transition to the NHL, and the Tocchet Hire

Exclusively for RG, Matvei Michkov opens up about his rookie season, relationship with Tortorella, and the hunger to lead the Flyers back to the playoffs

rg.org

 

[Baksfamous112]

Lol, another fairy tale about 2-way Crosby.

And Celebrini's -31 is irrelevant only because his whole team was irrelevant. They played to get him Calder, and still probably failed.

I won’t even bother with the Crosby statement.

As for Celibrini, I expect him to be held accountable next year and trim down on the bad positioning, low % plays that ends up in turnovers and mistakes. I do hope that his coach will hold him more accountable of his overall play (as he should). He’s still probably going to make a lot of mistakes but you still want him to take strides in that area.

I do expect Tocchet to hold Michkov to a higher standard next season than this year. I would be pissed as a Flyers fan if Tocchet just came in and said “let’s just let the kid play and do what he want to do on the ice” like you referred to earlier because that’s not how you grow as a player and as a team.

 

[FlyguyOX]

I won’t even bother with the Crosby statement.

As for Celibrini, I expect him to be held accountable next year and trim down on the bad positioning, low % plays that ends up in turnovers and mistakes. I do hope that his coach will hold him more accountable of his overall play (as he should). He’s still probably going to make a lot of mistakes but you still want him to take strides in that area.

I do expect Tocchet to hold Michkov to a higher standard next season than this year. I would be pissed as a Flyers fan if Tocchet just came in and said “let’s just let the kid play and do what he want to do on the ice” like you referred to earlier because that’s not how you grow as a player and as a team.

lol you think Torts didn't hold Michkov to a high standard????

 

[Baksfamous112]

I think this fear is as baseless as the fear of Torts and Michkov was.

The common thread that tied(ties) these guys together into a strong relationship is the intense competitive drive. As long as he gives max effort (he does) then the coach accepts the good with the bad.

Read this article. Michkov really appreciated Torts as a coach. He will be the same with Tocc. He just wants to win and will do whatever it takes to do that:

“I Hope I’ll Have Freedom on the Ice” – Matvei Michkov Talks Bond with Tortorella, Transition to the NHL, and the Tocchet Hire

Exclusively for RG, Matvei Michkov opens up about his rookie season, relationship with Tortorella, and the hunger to lead the Flyers back to the playoffs

rg.org

That’s not how you build a winner.

 

[Baksfamous112]

lol you think Torts didn't hold Michkov to a high standard????

I do and Tocchet probably will as well. I think it would be a mistake for Tocchet not to (as the other poster referenced he should)

 

[FlyguyOX]

That’s not how you build a winner.

No player is perfect.

You don't neuter a players strengths to make him something he's not suited for. Every star cheats for offense, they are just smart about when to do it. You can't just say "take no chances, EVER".

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Homer? A Ranger fan is a Flyer homer? Have to remember that one lol.

“After reviewing Wolf’s exploits later” means you would have noticed his second-half struggles, which you clearly had no clue about since you said he was “fantastic” (which he wasn’t) and carried the Flames, which he stopped doing two weeks before Valentine’s Day.

You really need to get past the fact Wolf was nominated over Michkov. I would love to unpack that with you!

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Michkov was on a tear more often than Celebrini, he outscored Celebrini at the start of the season (don't forget about 3 OT winners) and after 4 Nations. It's just Michkov hitted a wall at the middle of the race, and Celebrini didn't. But as I said for about 2/3 of the regular Michkov was significantly better than Celebrini.

Not to mention the San Jose season was effectively over by Halloween while the Flyers were a bubble team until the deadline.

You really need to get past the fact Wolf was nominated over Michkov. I would love to unpack that with you!

Ok so you won’t answer the question, nor can you explain the logic (or lack thereof) behind your own reasoning. I sensed it 15 or 20 posts ago but wanted to give you a shot. But by all means, keep dealing in absolutes.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Not to mention the San Jose season was effectively over by Halloween while the Flyers were a bubble team until the deadline.



Ok so you won’t answer the question, nor can you explain the logic (or lack thereof) behind your own reasoning. I sensed it 15 or 20 posts ago but wanted to give you a shot. But by all means, keep dealing in absolutes.

I explained it. You just can’t listen as you are deafened by your bias! That’s on you!

Wolf >Michkov.

That is official. Accept it! lol

 

[wetcoast]

It is certainly trending that way considering Michkov’s rookie year at 20 was equal to Kucherov’s second year at 21. The only disadvantage Michkov has right now is supporting cast. Kucherov walked into prime Stamkos/Hedman while Michkov is pretty much a one-man show until the Flyers surround him with better talent.

Trending?

Um sure okay that's not an unreasonable take right?

I mean how much more was Bedard trending last year or Celebrini this year as first year NHLers compared to Kuch?

 

[AlternateSideParking]

I explained it. You just can’t listen as you are deafened by your bias! That’s on you!

Wolf >Michkov.

That is official. Accept it! lol

I accepted it weeks ago. The world keeps spinning. Doesn’t mean we have to ignore half-assed assessments that lack factual evidence. You went from making Wolf out to be Patrick Roy, got corrected on it, then somehow pivoted to requiring feedback from Flyers fans on Michkov’s defensive play. Brilliant stuff.

Your explanation was you had to seek advice from others instead of doing it yourself lol. We have a word for that.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I accepted it weeks ago. The world keeps spinning. Doesn’t mean we have to ignore half-assed assessments that lack factual evidence. You went from making Wolf out to be Patrick Roy, got corrected on it, then somehow pivoted to requiring feedback from Flyers fans on Michkov’s defensive play. Brilliant stuff.

Your explanation was you had to seek advice from others instead of doing it yourself lol. We have a word for that.

The word is reasonable or thoughtful. Considered all points of view and concluded the same result as the NHL. The NHL got it right this time.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Trending?

Um sure okay that's not an unreasonable take right?

I mean how much more was Bedard trending last year or Celebrini this year as first year NHLers compared to Kuch?

Bedard’s comparables were Crosby and McDavid since all were generational center prospects. Even still, Bedard is absolutely trending toward being a 100-point center.

Michkov is a winger and was the most prolific Russian prospect since Ovechkin who tripled Kucherov’s rookie-year production despite being a year younger. Kucherov also had CHL and AHL time to adjust while Michkov certainly did not.

So, there’s my reasoning. How about yours?

 

[AlternateSideParking]

The word is reasonable or thoughtful. Considered all points of view and concluded the same result as the NHL. The NHL got it right this time.

OK so you admit you flip-flopped without doing any research. Thank you for confirming that.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

OK so you admit you flip-flopped without doing any research. Thank you for confirming that.

Of course. At one point i had Celebrini leading the pack earlier in the year. But if you actually did any research you would see the my final rankings were Lane / Celly /Wolf. Much a close 4th.

You meanwhile in homerific fashion had Michkov all the way! LOL

 

[wetcoast]

Bedard’s comparables were Crosby and McDavid since all were generational center prospects. Even still, Bedard is absolutely trending toward being a 100-point center.

Michkov is a winger and was the most prolific Russian prospect since Ovechkin who tripled Kucherov’s rookie-year production despite being a year younger. Kucherov also had CHL and AHL time to adjust while Michkov certainly did not.

So, there’s my reasoning. How about yours?

No you cited the age thing don't try to move the goalposts here.

Like I said to say that he is trending Kuch who has 3 Art Rosses after developing late is just a guess and extremely unlikely as Kuchs Art Ross accession isn't typical by any means.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

No you cited the age thing don't try to move the goalposts here.

Like I said to say that he is trending Kuch who has 3 Art Rosses after developing late is just a guess and extremely unlikely as Kuchs Art Ross accession isn't typical by any means.

I specifically said it was a draft+1 versus a draft+2 then wrote “despite being a year younger”. Michkov’s rookie season was more impressive than Kucherov’s, age or no age.

Michkov has never failed to deliver. Draft-2, Draft-1, Draft year, Draft+1, Draft+2. That’s called a f***ing trend.

Michkov is trending to become a great scorer. Jagr had five Rosses. Adjust his draft+2 for the ridiculous scoring rate and playing with Lemieux and it was equal to Michkov’s, playoffs notwithstanding.

Michkov has been scoring at a plus rate for five straight seasons with records to boot. That’s not luck or coincidence.

 

[Fatass]

From Torts to Tocchet. Got to feel for a young star player who needs the freedom to be offensively creative having these two guys for his coaches. Sadly Michkov will be held to the same standard as a 10 year vet for his defensive awareness. And he will have his icetime limited if he doesn’t live up to that standard.,

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Kucherov walked first into the Q, had to play in the A and after that in the Bolts middle 6 with limited TOI. The first full year with Tampa he played with Johnson and Palat and had ~5 minutes less TOI per game than Stamkos but only 7 points less at the end of the RS. In the PO he already outscored him badly.

If Michkov is any close to Kucherov the Tortorellas and Tocchets of this world should and will not matter…

Far less pressure was on Kucherov and his team was contending compared to Michkov’s situation. The conditions for a scoring explosion were ripe in Tampa, not Philly.

Whatever. Michkov had a better rookie season than Kucherov after having better KHL and MHL seasons before crossing over. Makes more sense to liken Michkov’s trajectory to the all-time Russian greats than anything else.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Of course. At one point i had Celebrini leading the pack earlier in the year. But if you actually did any research you would see the my final rankings were Lane / Celly /Wolf. Much a close 4th.

You meanwhile in homerific fashion had Michkov all the way! LOL

I already said Celebrini and Hutson were better several posts ago. Take a lap.

 

[Kojo]

Ignore button exists these people have been here since draft day trashing Michkov because he was passed on by Montreal. There’s a reason for it, they know how great he’ll be. Just move on man, you can reach people who refuse to debate real facts. Not being able to see who you’re replying to just reinforces the point.

There's only a few people posting in this thread, you're one of them, because to be honest who the f*** cares about Michkov. Nobody remembers the 4th best rookie of the year,

 

[Kshahdoo]

There's only a few people posting in this thread, you're one of them, because to be honest who the f*** cares about Michkov. Nobody remembers the 4th best rookie of the year,

Lol, you'll be remember him forever...