RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 5

[Garl]

Russian prospects aren't over hyped more than anybody else. Individuals are overhyped, not nationalities.

That you specifically target and single out players based on their nationality to “provide a counter balance” is ****-ed up.
Every player should be judged on his own individual merit.

I disagree and you give me zero charity. It doesn't work according to alorythm: there is a russian prospect, I go to his thread and bash him to "cool down" expectations. There have been plenty of russian prospects who were underhyped, and I promoted them from recent example: Yurov. Another example: Ilya Mikheyev.

It is my general impression that russian prospects tend to be overhyped often. Why? There is a small, but passionate bunch of russian homers who believe in russian hockey supremacy, and have an unshakable opinion that russian hockey is equal to canadian and superior to all other euros, and there is a bias in some north american posters, because russian players are "exotic" and because they produce stars like Ovechkin, Malkin, Kucherov etc.

One of the consequences is for example this "KHL is 2nd best league in the World" trope, which I think is misleading at best and which is usually main point of my critique.

If you pay attention I very rarely talk about NA based russian players, so it is not because of their citizenship.

 

[WarriorofTime]

It is my general impression that russian prospects tend to be overhyped often. Why? There is a small, but passionate bunch of russian homers who believe in russian hockey supremacy, and have an unshakable opinion that russian hockey is equal to canadian and superior to all other euros, and there is a bias in some north american posters, because russian players are "exotic" and because they produce stars like Ovechkin, Malkin, Kucherov etc.

Complete fan fiction, if anything I have shown Russians are more likely to get overlooked. Kucherov for instance was only a 2nd round pick and he now performs consistent with most 1st overalls.

 

[WarriorofTime]

3.I don't memorize russian busts, there were so many in last 10-15 years, I can easily make them from my head LOL

You specifically named 11 players, only 4 of whom were actually high draft picks. 4 of whom weren't even drafted at all. So yes, it's a bit odd that you have every random KHL player that came over to North America for a year and then went back seven years ago committed to memory in support of your broader thesis.

 

[Svedu]

I disagree and you give me zero charity. It doesn't work according to alorythm: there is a russian prospect, I go to his thread and bash him to "cool down" expectations. There have been plenty of russian prospects who were underhyped, and I promoted them from recent example: Yurov. Another example: Ilya Mikheyev.

It is my general impression that russian prospects tend to be overhyped often. Why? There is a small, but passionate bunch of russian homers who believe in russian hockey supremacy, and have an unshakable opinion that russian hockey is equal to canadian and superior to all other euros, and there is a bias in some north american posters, because russian players are "exotic" and because they produce stars like Ovechkin, Malkin, Kucherov etc.

One of the consequences is for example this "KHL is 2nd best league in the World" trope, which I think is misleading at best and which is usually main point of my critique.

If you pay attention I very rarely talk about NA based russian players, so it is not because of their citizenship.

Aren't you a SD-supporter? Or was it someone else?

 

[Garl]

Aren't you a SD-supporter? Or was it someone else?

SD, you mean Jimmie Akesson? I am not a citizen of Sweden so, probably confused me with someone

 

[Garl]

You specifically named 11 players, only 4 of whom were actually high draft picks. 4 of whom weren't even drafted at all. So yes, it's a bit odd that you have every random KHL player that came over to North America for a year and then went back seven years ago committed to memory in support of your broader thesis.

All of them used to be very hyped, believe it or not but Kirill Petrov and Kirill Kabanov were thought to be future 1OA or at least TOP 3

Complete fan fiction, if anything I have shown Russians are more likely to get overlooked. Kucherov for instance was only a 2nd round pick and he now performs consistent with most 1st overalls.

I am talking about this board.

 

[Hanji]

I disagree and you give me zero charity. It doesn't work according to alorythm: there is a russian prospect, I go to his thread and bash him to "cool down" expectations. There have been plenty of russian prospects who were underhyped, and I promoted them from recent example: Yurov. Another example: Ilya Mikheyev.

It is my general impression that russian prospects tend to be overhyped often. Why? There is a small, but passionate bunch of russian homers who believe in russian hockey supremacy, and have an unshakable opinion that russian hockey is equal to canadian and superior to all other euros, and there is a bias in some north american posters, because russian players are "exotic" and because they produce stars like Ovechkin, Malkin, Kucherov etc.

One of the consequences is for example this "KHL is 2nd best league in the World" trope, which I think is misleading at best and which is usually main point of my critique.

If you pay attention I very rarely talk about NA based russian players, so it is not because of their citizenship.

Russian players are not over hyped if (by your own admission) only a small contingent of Russian homers do it. You just defeated your own argument. There are hardly any Russians on these forums. 99.9% of this board doesn't over hype Russians specifically based on nationality.

 

[Garl]

Russian players are not over hyped if (by your own admission) only a small contingent of Russian homers do it. You just defeated your own argument. 99.9% of this board doesn't over hype Russians specifically based on nationality.

Sophistry, one doesn't follow after another

 

[Hanji]

Sophistry, one doesn't follow after another

Accusations of sophistry is what one resorts to when he/she has been exposed.


It's impossible for Russian players to be "over hyped often" (your own words) if only a "small, but passionate bunch of russian homers" (your own words) do the over hyping.
I can count the number of Russian posters on this board on 1 hand,


Just take the L, Garl.

 

[Garl]

Accusations of sophistry is what one resorts to when he/she has been exposed.


It's impossible for Russian players to be "over hyped often" (your own words) if only a "small, but passionate bunch of russian homers" (your own words) do the over hyping.
I can count the number of Russian posters on this board on 1 hand,


Just take the L, Garl.

As I have said, one doesn't follow after another, you, and some other posters overhype russians, we argue, 95% of the board doesn't care. Ah, you also create unnecessary drama about it lol.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Ah the imaginary “Russian homers” that nobody else can ever find consistently over hyping third round picks and undrafted players. Quite the service being provided by garl to fight the good fight.

 

[PM88RU]

Arguing online is neither productive nor pleasant. Rent a boxing ring, punch each other in the face, and decide who’s the right guy, in the end.

Why do you keep doing it, guys?

If one tends to asset Russians low and awaits bust every time, that’s his right and his life.
Let him consider KHL no.9 in the world. Or no.10. Or no. whatever the deepest abyss in the list of the worst hockey-like leagues.
That’s his only opinion. And let’s the Russians be the chokers in his eyes, whatever makes him feel good.

Why should anyone care about what random person thinks in the internet?

Thousands of posts. Lots of minutes and hours spent absolutely in vain, in useless efforts to make some other man to change his/her mind.

What’s the sense?
Life isn’t here, guys, it’s actually outside.

 

[Kshahdoo]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/philadelphia-flyers/latest-news/who-will-be-the-sidney-crosby-to-matvei-michkovs-alex-ovechkin-a-fun-look-into-what-could-be-the-next-big-nhl-player-rivalry

 

[WarriorofTime]

If HFBoards is an indicator, Demidov will be his big rival

 

[NatusVincere]

As things stand I think there is no point of comparing Bedard/Michkov to Crosby/Ovechkin. With generational players its pretty simple imo as soon their playing in the NHL: Either you have the stats/accomplishments, or you don’t.

Top 20 D+2 season:

Top 20 D+2 PPG (with at least 14 games)

Michkov is at 50 around Laine, Gaborik, Hall, Messier. Bedard is at 70 around Marner, Daigle, LaFontaine, Seguin, Kovalchuk.

Bedard/Michkov had the generational junior stats. But as for the NHL they are looking like very good Top 3 picks so far, no more no less. To be in the conversation with Crosby/Ovechkin they have to be around Top 10 in both categories, at least Top 10 in PPG. With the higher scoring both should be over 100 points and around 1.3 PPG. And you could say that a "true" generational player would already contending for the league lead in points, that would mean around 130-150 these days… that’s about twice as many points as Bedard/Michkov would have at season end with their current pace.

I have the maybe wishful thinking that Michkov is more of an unfinished product than Bedard or Crosby/Ovechkin at 19 and can with better/faster skating reach a new level, but so far Bedard/Michkov are looking like maybe the next MacKinnon/Kucherov.

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

He will be much better then Giroux....no question about it....and Giroux was fantastic.

This with absolutely zero doubt.

As things stand I think there is no point of comparing Bedard/Michkov to Crosby/Ovechkin. With generational players its pretty simple imo as soon their playing in the NHL: Either you have the stats/accomplishments, or you don’t.

Top 20 D+2 season:

Top 20 D+2 PPG (with at least 14 games)

Michkov is at 50 around Laine, Gaborik, Hall, Messier. Bedard is at 70 around Marner, Daigle, LaFontaine, Seguin, Kovalchuk.

Bedard/Michkov had the generational junior stats. But as for the NHL they are looking like very good Top 3 picks so far, no more no less. To be in the conversation with Crosby/Ovechkin they have to be around Top 10 in both categories, at least Top 10 in PPG. With the higher scoring both should be over 100 points and around 1.3 PPG. And you could say that a "true" generational player would already contending for the league lead in points, that would mean around 130-150 these days… that’s about twice as many points as Bedard/Michkov would have at season end with their current pace.

I have the maybe wishful thinking that Michkov is more of an unfinished product than Bedard or Crosby/Ovechkin at 19 and can with better/faster skating reach a new level, but so far Bedard/Michkov are looking like maybe the next MacKinnon/Kucherov.

I think if any player you draft turns into MacKinnon / Kucherov types you rejoice.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

As things stand I think there is no point of comparing Bedard/Michkov to Crosby/Ovechkin. With generational players its pretty simple imo as soon their playing in the NHL: Either you have the stats/accomplishments, or you don’t.

Top 20 D+2 season:

Top 20 D+2 PPG (with at least 14 games)

Michkov is at 50 around Laine, Gaborik, Hall, Messier. Bedard is at 70 around Marner, Daigle, LaFontaine, Seguin, Kovalchuk.

Bedard/Michkov had the generational junior stats. But as for the NHL they are looking like very good Top 3 picks so far, no more no less. To be in the conversation with Crosby/Ovechkin they have to be around Top 10 in both categories, at least Top 10 in PPG. With the higher scoring both should be over 100 points and around 1.3 PPG. And you could say that a "true" generational player would already contending for the league lead in points, that would mean around 130-150 these days… that’s about twice as many points as Bedard/Michkov would have at season end with their current pace.

I have the maybe wishful thinking that Michkov is more of an unfinished product than Bedard or Crosby/Ovechkin at 19 and can with better/faster skating reach a new level, but so far Bedard/Michkov are looking like maybe the next MacKinnon/Kucherov.

For Michkov the thing to remember is that a lot of those players you named were playing their D+1 in the NHL, so their D+2 isn’t going to include the rookie treatment that he’s getting. Also, I think for a goal scorer the proper way to assess them is goals per game, not points per game.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Nobody has been dominant as a young player in six or seven years. It wasn’t long ago even like Clayton Keller, Matt Barzal and Mitch Marner players (not generational) were really good right off the jump. Something to think about.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Crosby and Ovi were just different beasts , it becomes clearer and clearer as time goes by..in a much more contested and physical league no less

As things stand I think there is no point of comparing Bedard/Michkov to Crosby/Ovechkin. With generational players its pretty simple imo as soon their playing in the NHL: Either you have the stats/accomplishments, or you don’t.

Top 20 D+2 season:

Top 20 D+2 PPG (with at least 14 games)

Michkov is at 50 around Laine, Gaborik, Hall, Messier. Bedard is at 70 around Marner, Daigle, LaFontaine, Seguin, Kovalchuk.

Bedard/Michkov had the generational junior stats. But as for the NHL they are looking like very good Top 3 picks so far, no more no less. To be in the conversation with Crosby/Ovechkin they have to be around Top 10 in both categories, at least Top 10 in PPG. With the higher scoring both should be over 100 points and around 1.3 PPG. And you could say that a "true" generational player would already contending for the league lead in points, that would mean around 130-150 these days… that’s about twice as many points as Bedard/Michkov would have at season end with their current pace.

I have the maybe wishful thinking that Michkov is more of an unfinished product than Bedard or Crosby/Ovechkin at 19 and can with better/faster skating reach a new level, but so far Bedard/Michkov are looking like maybe the next MacKinnon/Kucherov.

 

[Fantomas]

I don't see what the distinction is between Ovechkin, Crosby and MacKinnon. I get that MacKinnon didn't start his career as successfully, but the way he's playing right now he's at their level. We'll see if he has the longevity, but this guy is every bit as dominant in my opinion. In fact, it appears he's better than Crosby and Ovechkin were in their late 20s.

 

[ViD]

Second best scorer on the team gets 11 minutes 5v5. Make that make sense

 

[Kshahdoo]

Second best scorer on the team gets 11 minutes 5v5. Make that make sense

Torts is trying to grind down Ottawa. Michkov isn't the best player for this kind of hockey...

 

[Winston Wolf]

I remember Lemieux scoring a goal like that when I was a kid. Generational confirmed.

 

[Redpath]

 

[Cody Webster]

Here for the comments