RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 4

[MrGuyPerson]

At the risk of being unpopular, I've finally done a Michkov video. I'm sure there's a zillion out there about his hands and his shooting, so I took a look at his mental game - mainly his playmaking process. I was not completely sold on his playmaking ability in his DY...not that I thought it was bad, I just thought it fell way short of elite. So, I peaked back at his D+1 season and up to this NHL preseason to see what I could identify both good and bad. I also took note of a specific physical aspect of his game that could lend itself to being a real difference maker.

As usual, this is not a highlight video, nor does it necessarily constitute "hype train"...

Explain your definition of IQ please. I asked on another thread and I can't fathom your take. I have not seen a prospect anticipate the flow of the game like Michkov does nor react to openings and create opportunities. Better question if you don't feel like providing your definition, what prospect do you think does have an elite IQ?

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

Defensively he's way behind but as a winger that's not a huge deal. Getting cheap/empty net points doesn't impress me. Some guys get 0 pts but were much more dangerous offensively. I just think he needs time to adjust more. Doesn't help that Flyers don't have that high gravity center.

I’m not even going to respond intelligently, you clearly don’t watch. “Cheap/empty net points” lmao

Explain your definition of IQ please. I asked on another thread and I can't fathom your take. I have not seen a prospect anticipate the flow of the game like Michkov does nor react to openings and create opportunities. Better question if you don't feel like providing your definition, what prospect do you think does have an elite IQ?

I watched this video for 2 mins on the train earlier and couldn’t tolerate it anymore, this guys valuation of what he’s seeing is brutal.

 

[Guadana]

Two first pair dmen? They have the Robin in York/Sanheim. They just need the Batman.

You also need a true 1C like you said. However, considering that Michkov is here, that 1 C doesnt have to be a top of the line 1C , a young couturier like center producing 75-80 points a year should be enough. Toews-Kane is a good example.

Some say that could be Luchanko, but he most likely turns into a Rod Brindamour, 2 way player , good secondary scoring but with some offensive flaws. So still need a 1C

Then you have all the cornerstones: 1C, 1 D, goalie in Zavragin and hopefully your top 10 player in Michkov. The next 2 drafts, and especially this next draft could define Briere's tenure and the long term future of the flyers.

There are mtl in the East, they have Slaf, Suzuki, Hage, Caufield and Demidov. Devils have Hughes, Hischier, Bratt, Meier. Jackets have Fantilli, Brindley, Lindstrom, Johnson. Ottawa have Stuzle, Tkachuk, Batherson, Greig, Norris, Buffalo have tonns of great young players. Thompson, Cozens, Helenius, Kulich, Benson, Peterka, Quinn.I believe I forget about someone.
Etc
If flyers want to compete on the East they should find true number one center. York and Sanheim are not on the level with their two way potential or dynamism with Dahlin, Power, Hughes, Nemec, Mateychuk, Hutson, Sanderson.
We can’t pencil Luchanko as two way 75-80 points player now. Even iff he will become this type of player, than flyers need to find really good another second line center who could easily play first line role. Because, like I said, many young eastern teams have this one/two punch option.
Or they can build team around Michkov and supporting defensive oriented cast, but let’s not wait big results because it’s not enough now.

 

[Kcoyote3]

Man I just KNOW people were waiting to put in their overrated hot takes for the first game he didn’t have a point…but unfortunately he got a point so they had to put in some anyways.

This never stops does it? This just keeps on going and going his whole career. This turns into the Ovechkin vs. Crosby debate again and we have thread after thread on HFboards for a decade.

HFboards Thread Titles in 2027:

Is Michkov Overrated?
Is Michkov going back to Russia?
Why is Michkov bad defensively?
Is Michkov the GOAT?
Why is Michkov?
What is Michkov?
Michkov?

 

[SaSaShi]

There are mtl in the East, they have Slaf, Suzuki, Hage, Caufield and Demidov. Devils have Hughes, Hischier, Bratt, Meier. Jackets have Fantilli, Brindley, Lindstrom, Johnson. Ottawa have Stuzle, Tkachuk, Batherson, Greig, Norris, Buffalo have tonns of great young players. Thompson, Cozens, Helenius, Kulich, Benson, Peterka, Quinn.I believe I forget about someone.
Etc
If flyers want to compete on the East they should find true number one center. York and Sanheim are not on the level with their two way potential or dynamism with Dahlin, Power, Hughes, Nemec, Mateychuk, Hutson, Sanderson.
We can’t pencil Luchanko as two way 75-80 points player now. Even iff he will become this type of player, than flyers need to find really good another second line center who could easily play first line role. Because, like I said, many young eastern teams have this one/two punch option.
Or they can build team around Michkov and supporting defensive oriented cast, but let’s not wait big results because it’s not enough now.

Luchanko turning out to be a 75-80 pt player is best case scenario, and im not banking on that at all. Could it happen? Sure, but not counting on it.

An addition of a young couturier player (mid level 1C in his prime) plus a top 10 defenseman along with Michkov and Zavragin, should be enough of a foundation to compete for cups. Foerster and Farabee and/or Frost becoming 3rd line players would mean a very deep team with potential superstars in Michkov, Zavragin and the stud 1D.

They are touting Zavragin as the next Shesterkin/Sorokin, so if he reaches that, philly should be quite strong. But u never know with prospects, especially goalies.

Or we can just get lucky and win top 4 overall pick and get a choice of Hagens, Misa, Ryabkin or Mcqueen. That's why Im kinda hoping Couturier is a 30-40 pt player this year and Ersson/Fedotov implodes.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Explain your definition of IQ please. I asked on another thread and I can't fathom your take. I have not seen a prospect anticipate the flow of the game like Michkov does nor react to openings and create opportunities. Better question if you don't feel like providing your definition, what prospect do you think does have an elite IQ?

Probably makes more sense to continue this conversation here...

It's not so much a philosophy as it is just the definition. At its root, hockey IQ is anticipation. Now, there's a lot of things that make that up. As I show in the video, we have playmaking process and vision, there's spatial awareness, there's off-puck play like getting open offensively, positional integrity defensively, risk mitigation, etc. etc.

I don't think what you're saying is rude by any means, but there are certain aspects of Michkov's hockey sense make-up that are not as strong as others - which I point out in that video. I think an area where he's really good is his proprioceptive system - you can see that in his (what I call) "automatic puck protection" mechanism. You can also see his anticipation shine through in terms of anticipating goalie movement. This is a player that will be comfortable shooting at where hips were on a goalie, for instance, which is sort of the new wave, the new shooting advent.

So, there are a bunch of different factors that make it up. He has an interesting blend of mental game. It will almost certainly make him a shooter/goal scorer more than a playmaker or balanced attacker. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

##

Elite IQ prospects? Buium, Demidov is really high up there when you look at the tape, Leo Carlsson is up there, Gabe Perreault is elite in this perspective. There's a number of them.

I'm actually a little surprised that it's the hockey sense (which is good, he's not dumb by any stretch) that folks get hung up on with Michkov. The general thought is among scouts that I talked to about him was about in this range too.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Michkov has generational hockey sense. I'm surprised anyone is watching his games and thinking he'll be a better goal scorer than playmaker. That hasn't been the case since he was 15 or 16 years old tbh.

Watched just a bit of your flyers video and it's clear you're missing some things. At 10:00 he's clearly making sure he's not screening his own goalie. He's not "lost", he's giving his goalie great line of sight to the shot, which Ersson has said in PC he's been telling his guys to give him (he said he's been more vocal on the ice about telling guys to let the shot through).

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Yeah, hockey sense is a weird criticism of Michkov. Like the one skill no one who isn’t trying to be controversial for the sake of it criticizes.

Michkov brings out the hate. There are still people criticizing him after having a primary assist on his team’s only goal yesterday. If that’s the bad game, you sign up for that 110 times out of 100. He leads the preseason in points. I don’t know why anyone would be negative right now. Not sure you could’ve asked for much better.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Michkov has generational hockey sense. I'm surprised anyone is watching his games and thinking he'll be a better goal scorer than playmaker. That hasn't been the case since he was 15 or 16 years old tbh.

Watched just a bit of your flyers video and it's clear you're missing some things. At 10:00 he's clearly making sure he's not screening his own goalie. He's not "lost", he's giving his goalie great line of sight to the shot, which Ersson has said in PC he's been telling his guys to give him (he said he's been more vocal on the ice about telling guys to let the shot through).

I'm not sure about "generational" (whatever that means these days haha). I'm actually surprised at the opposite (re: goal scoring/playmaking). His shooting rates are really high-end versus his teammates and peers. While his playmaking exploits, especially the more complex types, certainly fall below the mark of an "elite playmaker". The exception being passes that he can make off of a shot (i.e. fake shot passes), he can execute them in fine form.

Re: "not screening the goalie" - I agree with you to a point and that's very fair. The reason why I stuck with it is because there's not even a flinch towards his check before the shot is ready to be attempted. If his anticipatory instinct was truly elite, he'd have at least acknowledged the biggest threat - of which, he's responsible for - and then maybe process that he shouldn't screen his goalie. But the whole sequence gives off the impression that he was doing what he was told, but not necessarily knowing how to execute on it if the play was on his side. I think that sequence reflects most of his other DZ exploits that are shown, whether it's junior or pro...the approach is...uhhh...not a principled path certainly haha

I think he deserves credit for how "streamlined" his mindset is...which younger me wouldn't have been so forgiving (for lack of a better term)...in that way, he should be fairly easy to pair with center wise. Again, I think there are elements of his mental game that are very scalable, very promising...I don't think the whole mental package is to die for though. Which seems to be in line with who I talk to, that's how HP graded him (7 out of 9), I think EP for whatever that's worth is right about there too if I recall.

Even on a stupid level, the idea that he's a playmaker over a shooter...the G:A ratio doesn't at all suggest that, I believe he had twice as many shot attempts per game than any other forward on his KHL team last year (but was mid-pack in passes), that's actually part of the reason why I made the video was to check and see if his playmaking was all of a sudden a huge factor versus his DY. And, as mentioned, yes it improved...but this player better be scoring goals at the NHL level because this playmaking (conception and execution) isn't so advanced that I'm positive it will hold in a noteworthy way. I think shot-pass is gonna be big one, especially on the power play. I think give-and-go sequences are gonna be there with the right duo. But there are other aspects to the playmaking process that I have questions about...

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Watched just a bit of your flyers video and it's clear you're missing some things. At 10:00 he's clearly making sure he's not screening his own goalie. He's not "lost", he's giving his goalie great line of sight to the shot, which Ersson has said in PC he's been telling his guys to give him (he said he's been more vocal on the ice about telling guys to let the shot through).

Funny how interpretations can be different. It looks pretty clear to me if he sticks with his guy in the center lane the goalie will still have a clear line on the shot.

Hell, at the moment the guy breaks towards the middle and Michkov doesn't follow, the shooter hasn't even begun his shot yet, he's still processing options.

 

[Sombastate]

Boy people can't wait to talk nonsense, even when its empirically incorrect. "Empty net points." Insanity

 

[Guadana]

Luchanko turning out to be a 75-80 pt player is best case scenario, and im not banking on that at all. Could it happen? Sure, but not counting on it.

An addition of a young couturier player (mid level 1C in his prime) plus a top 10 defenseman along with Michkov and Zavragin, should be enough of a foundation to compete for cups. Foerster and Farabee and/or Frost becoming 3rd line players would mean a very deep team with potential superstars in Michkov, Zavragin and the stud 1D.

They are touting Zavragin as the next Shesterkin/Sorokin, so if he reaches that, philly should be quite strong. But u never know with prospects, especially goalies.

Or we can just get lucky and win top 4 overall pick and get a choice of Hagens, Misa, Ryabkin or Mcqueen. That's why Im kinda hoping Couturier is a 30-40 pt player this year and Ersson/Fedotov implodes.

Zavragin is really good for now. I dont know what prospect should do for his age to be better. But of course with goalies its about menthality, luck and stability. So until we see we dont know.

Top-4 pick will really help.

 

[ViD]

Flyers were completely dominated yesterday, had shot total of 12 or so, Michkov barely touched the puck all game long, still the Flyers were down 2-1 and had established offensive zone with the 6v5 set up just for Drysdale to gift the Bruins an easy ENG

Not much to evaluate Michkov in this game as the Flyers were completely neutered yet he still recorded a point

 

[SaSaShi]

Probably makes more sense to continue this conversation here...

It's not so much a philosophy as it is just the definition. At its root, hockey IQ is anticipation. Now, there's a lot of things that make that up. As I show in the video, we have playmaking process and vision, there's spatial awareness, there's off-puck play like getting open offensively, positional integrity defensively, risk mitigation, etc. etc.

I don't think what you're saying is rude by any means, but there are certain aspects of Michkov's hockey sense make-up that are not as strong as others - which I point out in that video. I think an area where he's really good is his proprioceptive system - you can see that in his (what I call) "automatic puck protection" mechanism. You can also see his anticipation shine through in terms of anticipating goalie movement. This is a player that will be comfortable shooting at where hips were on a goalie, for instance, which is sort of the new wave, the new shooting advent.

So, there are a bunch of different factors that make it up. He has an interesting blend of mental game. It will almost certainly make him a shooter/goal scorer more than a playmaker or balanced attacker. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

##

Elite IQ prospects? Buium, Demidov is really high up there when you look at the tape, Leo Carlsson is up there, Gabe Perreault is elite in this perspective. There's a number of them.

I'm actually a little surprised that it's the hockey sense (which is good, he's not dumb by any stretch) that folks get hung up on with Michkov. The general thought is among scouts that I talked to about him was about in this range too.

From my viewings of him in the KHL and his early preseason games, he did not play the game the same way. Like you said, his shooting rates in the KHL were high in Sochi, but if you watched the rookie game, his preseason games versus the capitals, Islanders and the game where he scored 2 goals vs Boston, most of the offense that he created were setting up his teammates for good scoring chances.

Perhaps in Sochi he realized he was the biggest threat thus the skewed shooting. Almost every scout I listened to actually commented that there is a great playmaker hidden in Michkov, which at the time I was skeptical due to his statistics.

But the eye test at least from his early games, if you did not know who Michkov was and his track record, people would say he was primarily a playmaking winger and he really excelled at it. The philly powerplay looked completely different when he was on the ice. It looked like an actual NHL powerplay.

If you could take a deeper look at those 3 games, and evaluate, would be nice. Some philly fans even wanted him to shoot more before his 2 goal performance , because he barely shot the puck in the preseason. In 4 games, he has recorded 8 SOG. Cutter Gauthier had 12 SOG in one game, a renowned aggressive shooter.

Could be the case of rookie deferring to vets, but anyhow, I came away thinking, if he plays like this, it looks like 30-50 player in terms of goals/assist ratio.

Also, how do you explain his record setting points in every league/tourney he has played in?

He's an average skater in terms of power and speed. His shot is good, but not like Bedard in terms of velocity and release, who looks like Joe Sakic on steroids. He is not strong. He is not a flashy stickandling or dangling wizard. Nothing about his game is overpowering or eye popping. What is his x-factor??

 

[WarriorofTime]

Is he expected to make the roster?

 

[MNRube]

Is he expected to make the roster?

Of the All Star Team?

What is his x-factor??

Processing speed. Same reason why Tom Brady, Gretzky and Messi are considered legends. Some guys just are able to read the game faster than their competition.

 

[Michael Farkas]

From my viewings of him in the KHL and his early preseason games, he did not play the game the same way. Like you said, his shooting rates in the KHL were high in Sochi, but if you watched the rookie game, his preseason games versus the capitals, Islanders and the game where he scored 2 goals vs Boston, most of the offense that he created were setting up his teammates for good scoring chances.

Yeah, I think the thing that I'm not communicating very well is that I don't think he's a shoot-at-all-costs player like, say, Cole Eiserman. I think Michov prefers to shoot, but he's a capable passer. My thing is that I don't find that to be a conceptionally or technically elite part of his game and I haven't since I've been watching him. Good? Totally. Productive at the NHL level? Certainly should be. Enough to be considered a high-end assist man or meaningfully exceed his goal total? I'd be surprised if that was consistently the case. You mentioned 30/50, that second number is a little too rich for my blood. That said, team tactics factor into that - what his role is on the power play, etc.

Perhaps in Sochi he realized he was the biggest threat thus the skewed shooting. Almost every scout I listened to actually commented that there is a great playmaker hidden in Michkov, which at the time I was skeptical due to his statistics.

But the eye test at least from his early games, if you did not know who Michkov was and his track record, people would say he was primarily a playmaking winger and he really excelled at it. The philly powerplay looked completely different when he was on the ice. It looked like an actual NHL powerplay.

If you could take a deeper look at those 3 games, and evaluate, would be nice. Some philly fans even wanted him to shoot more before his 2 goal performance , because he barely shot the puck in the preseason. In 4 games, he has recorded 8 SOG. Cutter Gauthier had 12 SOG in one game, a renowned aggressive shooter.

Could be the case of rookie deferring to vets, but anyhow, I came away thinking, if he plays like this, it looks like 30-50 player in terms of goals/assist ratio.

It felt like he was a little bit deferential from what I saw. Obvious comment: I think he's just adjusting to how this league functions, the speed of it, the angles of back pressure, etc. He's a good (or better) passer into adjacent layers and lanes, if you provide him those options, he'll take them...especially to set up give n go situations where he pulls the trigger. I think we'll see that early in the regular season.

Also, how do you explain his record setting points in every league/tourney he has played in?

He's really ****** good at hockey haha

He's an average skater in terms of power and speed. His shot is good, but not like Bedard in terms of velocity and release, who looks like Joe Sakic on steroids. He is not strong. He is not a flashy stickandling or dangling wizard. Nothing about his game is overpowering or eye popping. What is his x-factor??

I think this sort of undersells him a bit overall, but I get it where you're coming from.

I have a sneaking suspicion this is gonna be like the time I was writing for the Dallas Stars and I fought tooth and nail to not have Fabian Brunnstrom as a top-3 prospect in the organization even though it was like a Publisher's Clearinghouse win for Dallas and I said, "I don't know about this guy...I don't think it's really gonna work out that well." Hat trick first game.

Michkov is gonna start out 1+12 this year after this haha

 

[SaSaShi]

He's an average skater in terms of power and speed. His shot is good, but not like Bedard in terms of velocity and release, who looks like Joe Sakic on steroids. He is not strong. He is not a flashy stickandling or dangling wizard. Nothing about his game is overpowering or eye popping. What is his x-factor??

You say this is underselling him, but where would you disagree with me in that paragraph??

Also, regarding his consistent production at all levels...What is his x factor according to you? How was he able to do this from what I feel are average physical characteristics. (size, skating, strength) and good but not great skill characteristics ( shot, stickhandling, etc)

Thx for the response

 

[Sasso09]

I see that the insane overrating continues.

We're talking about Michkov here not Demidov.

Funny you say this while trying to pretend Demidov is better than Michkov.

There's ZERO doubt Michkov is closer to Bedard than he is Demidov

 

[Sasso09]

Defensively he's way behind but as a winger that's not a huge deal. Getting cheap/empty net points doesn't impress me. Some guys get 0 pts but were much more dangerous offensively. I just think he needs time to adjust more. Doesn't help that Flyers don't have that high gravity center.

Yeah, just stop talking. It's clear you're not watching anything

Michkov hasn't looked great in 2 preseason games I've watched. But the talent is undeniable. I just think his rookie season might start slow.

Lol.... he's been downright DOMINANT in all but the last one, where he still had a nice assist.

Just stop

 

[Sasso09]

At the risk of being unpopular, I've finally done a Michkov video. I'm sure there's a zillion out there about his hands and his shooting, so I took a look at his mental game - mainly his playmaking process. I was not completely sold on his playmaking ability in his DY...not that I thought it was bad, I just thought it fell way short of elite. So, I peaked back at his D+1 season and up to this NHL preseason to see what I could identify both good and bad. I also took note of a specific physical aspect of his game that could lend itself to being a real difference maker.

As usual, this is not a highlight video, nor does it necessarily constitute "hype train"...

At this point I'm convinced you're one of two things

1) a world class troll
2) truly know nothing about hockey

 

[Boxscore]

Michkov is a phenomenal talent, period. I've been to Allentown for the rookie game and both Flyers preseason games at home to watch him 5 rows from the ice. This kid is special. In fact, it's scary how good he is as a 19 year old coming to a new country, not speaking the language, and adjusting to a much smaller playing surface.

More than the points (which are outstanding), it's his anticipation, high IQ, and ability to turn a "nothing" broken play into a highlight reel scoring chance. The biggest issue I've seen with Michkov is that the Flyers don't yet have anyone on their roster who can match his IQ and playmaking ability... if so, he'd easily have 3 more points this preseason.

As for the nonsense about him ending up in the doghouse, I've watched him backcheck like a demon on most occasions, and he even ended up taking his man to the paint and clearing the crease vs. the Bruins on Saturday.

If we're being 100% honest, he's been all that was advertised and more.

 

[Michael Farkas]

At this point I'm convinced you're one of two things

1) a world class troll
2) truly know nothing about hockey

Can't it be both?

I mean, clearly, I'm a "troll" because of relatively minor disagreement about a prospect's playmaking prowess.

And two just goes without saying really...I'm the dumbest guy you know.

 

[Fatass]

Can't it be both?

I mean, clearly, I'm a "troll" because of relatively minor disagreement about a prospect's playmaking prowess.

And two just goes without saying really...I'm the dumbest guy you know.

Michkov is a brilliant player, I think that’s obvious. It’s what makes him brilliant that is subtle, so not so obvious. He’s got hockey instincts (smarts) like very few have.

 

[Sasso09]

There are mtl in the East, they have Slaf, Suzuki, Hage, Caufield and Demidov. Devils have Hughes, Hischier, Bratt, Meier. Jackets have Fantilli, Brindley, Lindstrom, Johnson. Ottawa have Stuzle, Tkachuk, Batherson, Greig, Norris, Buffalo have tonns of great young players. Thompson, Cozens, Helenius, Kulich, Benson, Peterka, Quinn.I believe I forget about someone.
Etc
If flyers want to compete on the East they should find true number one center. York and Sanheim are not on the level with their two way potential or dynamism with Dahlin, Power, Hughes, Nemec, Mateychuk, Hutson, Sanderson.
We can’t pencil Luchanko as two way 75-80 points player now. Even iff he will become this type of player, than flyers need to find really good another second line center who could easily play first line role. Because, like I said, many young eastern teams have this one/two punch option.
Or they can build team around Michkov and supporting defensive oriented cast, but let’s not wait big results because it’s not enough now.

Give me York and Sanheim over Mateychuk or Hutson all day every day.. York and Sanheim are for sure better than both and I doubt either of them at any point end up better than York.

I fail to see how Montreal or CBJ have a better core. Buffalo, for sure, Ottawa? Probably.

Michkov
Konecny
Tippett
Frost
Foerster
Farabee
Luchanko
Brink
York
Sanheim
Drysdale
Bonk
6 picks in the top 40 of the 25' draft

VS

Suzuki
Slafkovsky
Demidov
Caufield
Dach
Hage
Laine
Roy
Newhook
Hutson
Reinbacher
Guhle
Mailloux
Baron
Struble

That's easy money for Philly