RW Kaapo Kakko - TPS, Liiga (2019 Draft)

[Gsus]

Kakko's game looks NA style. Much easier to predict that he should be fine than for Laine for his first year.

 

[kelsier]

Did I understand your post correctly that you attribute Mackinnon's success last season to Rantanen? If so, I would be interested to hear how that is the case. A great duo, no doubt, and I think both had a positive effect on each other, but I wouldn't say that Rantanen carried Mackinnon

Entirely? Of course not. However should we look into Mackinnon's three last seasons 14-15: 38 points in 64 games, 15-16: 52 points in 72 games 16-17: 53 points in 82 games - he's been averaging some 0,5-0,7 ppg during the last years and all of the sudden he doubles the production? I don't believe that any player would or could develop at that age this much. Also when you look at Rantanen's points, he too finished his year over ppg. So yeah, Rantanen had significant impact on Mack's production and if it was one of these two who had significantly developed, that wasn't Mack (it was Rantanen). That's precisely why I said I wanted to see another season with similar production and preferably without Rantanen in the same line to see exactly where he is today. With that said, I don't think anyone carried anyone, but they elevated each other's game quite perfectly. Rantanen is such a heck of a player and Avs got very lucky with the Sharks messing up their pick in the 2015 NHL draft.

He said as prospects....

Also watch mackinnon and how he produces...obviously rantanens finishing ability helps alot but mackinnon was the driver of offense on that line last season. Rantanen did really well too obviously but wqtch macs highlights from last season and you will see.

Why would I have to watch highlights when I've watched half of his games?

I would say that for his age the whole package of elite level board play, stickhandling and scoring has set him apart quite well. It's not that he is like a whole tier below Laine offensively at the same age. On 5v5 it's actually more of the opposite if anything. And btw you clearly didn't watch a single Avs game in the last season if you think MacKinnon couldn't have produced without Rantanen.

Yeah like I said Kakko has the package and all those "little" things combined makes him extremely special. I didn't say there was a tier between him and Laine, and in fact Kakko seems more capable especially on the 5vs5 game at the same age. Yet still, even all things considered I don't think he will be as highly regarded or even as valuable as Laine when they're both in their peaks. Time will tell. As for did I watch any Avs games, ehm, I followed three NHL teams last season, The Jets, The Canes and The Avs. How is it that everytime someone has a different opinion the first thing they'll say is "you clearly didn't watch <insert a team> yada yada" while drawing conclusions without fully understanding the context. I watched plenty, and now I want to see more.

 

[BleedWell]

Entirely? Of course not. However should we look into Mackinnon's three last seasons 14-15: 38 points in 64 games, 15-16: 52 points in 72 games 16-17: 53 points in 82 games - he's been averaging some 0,5-0,7 ppg during the last years and all of the sudden he doubles the production? I don't believe that any player would or could develop at that age this much. Also when you look at Rantanen's points, he too finished his year over ppg. So yeah, Rantanen had significant impact on Mack's production and if it was one of these two who had significantly developed, that wasn't Mack (it was Rantanen). That's precisely why I said I wanted to see another season with similar production and preferably without Rantanen in the same line to see exactly where he is today. With that said, I don't think anyone carried anyone, but they elevated each other's game quite perfectly. Rantanen is such a heck of a player and Avs got very lucky with the Sharks messing up their pick in the 2015 NHL draft.



Why would I have to watch highlights when I've watched half of his games?



Yeah like I said Kakko has the package and all those "little" things combined makes him extremely special. I didn't say there was a tier between him and Laine, and in fact Kakko seems more capable especially on the 5vs5 game at the same age. Yet still, even all things considered I don't think he will be as highly regarded or even as valuable as Laine when they're both in their peaks. Time will tell. As for did I watch any Avs games, ehm, I followed three NHL teams last season, The Jets, The Canes and The Avs. How is it that everytime someone has a different opinion the first thing they'll say is "you clearly didn't watch <insert a team> yada yada" while drawing conclusions without fully understanding the context. I watched plenty, and now I want to see more.

Spot on for the Mackinnon/Rantanen thing.

For the Kakko/Laine thing on the other hand I think that Kakko is better than Laine was this time in his career. Who will have better career, well it's way too early even speculate that. Especially given that they are very different type of players

 

[kelsier]

Spot on for the Mackinnon/Rantanen thing.

For the Kakko/Laine thing on the other hand I think that Kakko is better than Laine was this time in his career. Who will have better career, well it's way too early even speculate that. Especially that they are very diffrent types as a player.

Aye. It's too early to speculate, plus why load such huge expectations over Kakko's shoulders in the begin with. Laine scored 80 goals in his first two season and broke some European scoring records on the process. Besides you're right, they are entirely different type of players. If anything, I'd be delighted should Kakko turn into a better player cause that'd be pure gold for the future Olympic team. Like I said before, I'd rather leave that discussion to later date and just enjoy the show. Kakko could actually break Barkov's bench mark if he had a healthy season. Thumbs up and fingers crossed.

 

[Narow]

Entirely? Of course not. However should we look into Mackinnon's three last seasons 14-15: 38 points in 64 games, 15-16: 52 points in 72 games 16-17: 53 points in 82 games - he's been averaging some 0,5-0,7 ppg during the last years and all of the sudden he doubles the production? I don't believe that any player would or could develop at that age this much. Also when you look at Rantanen's points, he too finished his year over ppg. So yeah, Rantanen had significant impact on Mack's production and if it was one of these two who had significantly developed, that wasn't Mack (it was Rantanen). That's precisely why I said I wanted to see another season with similar production and preferably without Rantanen in the same line to see exactly where he is today. With that said, I don't think anyone carried anyone, but they elevated each other's game quite perfectly. Rantanen is such a heck of a player and Avs got very lucky with the Sharks messing up their pick in the 2015 NHL draft.



Why would I have to watch highlights when I've watched half of his games?



Yeah like I said Kakko has the package and all those "little" things combined makes him extremely special. I didn't say there was a tier between him and Laine, and in fact Kakko seems more capable especially on the 5vs5 game at the same age. Yet still, even all things considered I don't think he will be as highly regarded or even as valuable as Laine when they're both in their peaks. Time will tell. As for did I watch any Avs games, ehm, I followed three NHL teams last season, The Jets, The Canes and The Avs. How is it that everytime someone has a different opinion the first thing they'll say is "you clearly didn't watch <insert a team> yada yada" while drawing conclusions without fully understanding the context. I watched plenty, and now I want to see more.

So if u watched many of their games you know whats up. Getting a player like rantanen to finish his passes is a huge part of why he almost doubled...that and he had a heck of a season but look at hid international numbers....he has produced incredibly well when with competent players. I dont know too much of his earlier seasons but im guessing he didnt habe a player of rantanens calibre then otherwise id agree with you. Looking at rantanens highlights alot of the time it os mackinnon doing the dirty wprk so to speak. I could be wrong tho havent followed closely this season and everytime i seen rantanen/ mac thry have both been stellar.

 

[kelsier]

So if u watched many of their games you know whats up. Getting a player like rantanen to finish his passes is a huge part of why he almost doubled...that and he had a heck of a season but look at hid international numbers....he has produced incredibly well when with competent players. I dont know too much of his earlier seasons but im guessing he didnt habe a player of rantanens calibre then otherwise id agree with you. Looking at rantanens highlights alot of the time it os mackinnon doing the dirty wprk so to speak. I could be wrong tho havent followed closely this season and everytime i seen rantanen/ mac thry have both been stellar.

When Landeskog is by far your worst line mate, the things are looking quite damn bright. Should we look at Barkov for the sakes of comparison since they are from the same draft class, has he had elite line mates? Don't think so (Huberdeau is fine but no way near Rantanen for instance), yet he has been outproducing (ppg) Mackinnon almost every single year after their rookie seasons, all the while playing world class defensive game. I'm not saying Mackinnon didn't take strides forward last season, but what I'm saying is that when you have one of the best lines in the league and your getting f*loads of minutes, it becomes heck of a lot easier to score points than when your playing with scrubs. I would take Barkov without hesitation of a second over Mackinnon right now. It takes more than one good season to join HOF. Lets just see what happens when they start balancing lines up in Colorado. Of course Mackinnon is a major contributor, but when someone's points double up exactly at the same time when an elite talent turns into an elite player that's just a little too convenient, from my perspective anyways. Like I said, I'd like to see him replicate that first, before becoming a believer and preferably without having all the eggs in one casket like last year.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

Yes, because that is exactly what happened last year with Rasmus Dahlin. The NA based angle here is often overstated. Hughes has earned his ranking. He was better at both events they've been at, and is viewed as a hopeful center. That doesn't mean Kakko can't pass him, but scouts aren't biased by nationality unless you are talking about Russians unlikely to report or that will be difficult to sign.

I'm not talking about scouts I'm talking about fans and how fans view prospects. It's easier to get exposure as a North American prospect and that kind of skews the view for most fans.

A lot of times people have been shocked when European-based prospects have gone really high in the draft and act like scouts don't know what they're doing.

Dahlin isn't your average prospect to apply this rule to lmao.


Edit: not that scouts aren't immune to publishing. A lot of times media skews the view for experts as well, it's extremely hard to cancel the noise and it's extra obvious in the UFC.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

I'm not talking about scouts I'm talking about fans and how fans view prospects. It's easier to get exposure as a North American prospect and that kind of skews the view for most fans.

A lot of times people have been shocked when European-based prospects have gone really high in the draft and act like scouts don't know what they're doing.

Dahlin isn't your average prospect to apply this rule to lmao.


Edit: not that scouts aren't immune to publishing. A lot of times media skews the view for experts as well, it's extremely hard to cancel the noise and it's extra obvious in the UFC.

Recent years top 3 has been full of European prospects...there's no NA bias. Teams want the best player available.

 

[ijuka]

Recent years top 3 has been full of European prospects...there's no NA bias. Teams want the best player available.

Teams don't have NA bias. It's the NA media that does.

They usually change their tone when they get some info from the actual teams, which tends to be around the time the lottery's finished and teams know where they're picking. There's a very good reason many European players tend to be risers.

 

[Ippenator]

Recent years top 3 has been full of European prospects...there's no NA bias. Teams want the best player available.

Of course teams want the best players in general. But unfortunately the nationality bias and even more being exposed so much more to hearing and seeing about the North American prospects being the frontrunners in the race, leads so easily into the teams simply believing that the North American prospects are after all the better prospects in many cases when a European prospect is after all better. This happens very often when the gap between the players is relatively small and in reality would be in favor of the European player.

A very good example is Nolan Patrick, whom absolutely by his skill and what he projects to become, should have never been even a top 5 pick. Especially with his constant injury problems. But teams and even scouts had been way too long exposed by the North American hype about him, so no way he could drop to lower than 2nd in the draft. At the same time a European prospect like Liljegren dropped like crazy, although he didn’t have much bigger problems during his season than what Patrick had during his season. This was a clear North American bias situation, which affected clearly both ways there. And this happens constantly.

The North American bias happens all the time. Mostly it’s not intentional for sure, but it still happens, as it’s simply about the human nature and how being exposed to certain claims often and long enough, leads into controlling some parts of our behaviour and opinions.

 

[kelsier]

I'm not talking about scouts I'm talking about fans and how fans view prospects. It's easier to get exposure as a North American prospect and that kind of skews the view for most fans.

A lot of times people have been shocked when European-based prospects have gone really high in the draft and act like scouts don't know what they're doing.

Dahlin isn't your average prospect to apply this rule to lmao.


Edit: not that scouts aren't immune to publishing. A lot of times media skews the view for experts as well, it's extremely hard to cancel the noise and it's extra obvious in the UFC.

Had they picked Kakko into the U20 WJC team last year he would have much higher media coverage right now. Kakko was actually even good enough to play there but again the Finnish Hockey Federation decided to go with more experienced guys and got their arses sent back home with a disgraceful performance, the usual. Luckily they didn't pass up on him with the U18 WJHC or otherwise we'd never have won the gold medal. But yeah, top Euro prospects kind of need that hot D-1 WJC performance to get the early hype up to the roof tops. There's still tons of time for Kakko to really break into the NA'n audience and what he can and will accomplish in the D year is what matters the most. In a way you could say he's a late bloomer.

 

[TheFinnishTrap]

Great pair of assists, I loved the reverse-hit on the second one. Kakko looks ready to dominate Liiga.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

Teams don't have NA bias. It's the NA media that does.

They usually change their tone when they get some info from the actual teams, which tends to be around the time the lottery's finished and teams know where they're picking. There's a very good reason many European players tend to be risers.

Yep this is exactly the point I was trying to make

 

[Daximus]

Teams don't have NA bias. It's the NA media that does.

They usually change their tone when they get some info from the actual teams, which tends to be around the time the lottery's finished and teams know where they're picking. There's a very good reason many European players tend to be risers.

It's not like Canadian or American kids don't rise. Draft year is huge for position. There are tons of guys who start strong and finish weak and tons of guys no one has really heard of that put themselves on the map. That isn't limited to any country.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Recent years top 3 has been full of European prospects...there's no NA bias. Teams want the best player available.

I don't know if Kotkaniemi was BPA at the time but it might be working out after all. Any team will be fortunate if they get Kakko.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

There's plenty of bias in drafting based on how NA media ranks players. I say that as a North American.

Its inevitable that media thoughts seep into some decision-making.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Well i'll be go to hell, Kakko gets yet another primary assist.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Another ridiculous play, out-muscling his man and passing to Palve for open net.

 

[ookhaab]

He just keeps producing, all of his points have been primary points so far.

Edit: He is playing with f***ing Wirtanen again... Idk why they wont play him with Palve.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

 

[kelsier]

Kakko can break lose from the boards, on the rush he can deke his way from each side and on the open ice he makes it look like it's not much of an effort at all. The assist for Palve was just a small display of that ridiculous ability (skating, agility, physical strength and filthy hands), although this time he didn't have to pick the skating lane, but instead used a bit of brute force and just made his way past the opponent and cross the blueline. The rest was easy. One more period left.

*Oh and I've no idea what beyond the world has Wirtanen to do with the first line. 3rd or 4th line center with extremely limited offensive toolbox. I hope when Korpik0ski comes back, maybe they could try something like Filppula - Kakko - Korpikoski and see if he can be this good while playing in the middle*

 

[thomast]

Another ridiculous play, out-muscling his man and passing to Palve for open net.

Creates turnover too. He plays really mature game.

 

[LarrysMustache]

Of course teams want the best players in general. But unfortunately the nationality bias and even more being exposed so much more to hearing and seeing about the North American prospects being the frontrunners in the race, leads so easily into the teams simply believing that the North American prospects are after all the better prospects in many cases when a European prospect is after all better. This happens very often when the gap between the players is relatively small and in reality would be in favor of the European player.

A very good example is Nolan Patrick, whom absolutely by his skill and what he projects to become, should have never been even a top 5 pick. Especially with his constant injury problems. But teams and even scouts had been way too long exposed by the North American hype about him, so no way he could drop to lower than 2nd in the draft. At the same time a European prospect like Liljeström dropped like crazy, although he didn’t have much bigger problems during his season than what Patrick had during his season. This was a clear North American bias situation, which affected clearly both ways there. And this happens constantly.

The North American bias happens all the time. Mostly it’s not intentional for sure, but it still happens, as it’s simply about the human nature and how being exposed to certain claims often and long enough, leads into controlling some parts of our behaviour and opinions.

The f... Patrick projected as a two-way 1st line center. The way he played in the second half of the season justified that projection. What you guys consider bias is projection on a small ice surface where time and space is very limited. Just watch you guys whine about Honka who will be very good with men this year but won't probably be drafted at the top. Heck, I don't have him in my top 20 because he projects as a defensive liability, especially comes post-season. And he's a f defenceman .

 

[Ippenator]

The f... Patrick projected as a two-way 1st line center. The way he played in the second half of the season justified that projection. What you guys consider bias is projection on a small ice surface where time and space is very limited. Just watch you guys whine about Honka who will be very good with men this year but won't probably be drafted at the top. Heck, I don't have him in my top 20 because he projects as a defensive liability, especially comes post-season. And he's a f defenceman .

I’m not also sold on Honka at least so far. And right now I don’t see him as a likely top 10 pick. Top 20 might be possible, but better than that and he has to have a pretty good rest of the season. I do agree that he has a lot to do to be a defensively sound player in the NHL. On the other hand so did Klingberg and he has been able to become one of the real top defensemen at the NHL level. Sure through his offensive skills mostly, but I wouldn’t at least call him a real defensive liability nowadays.

Sure Patrick has shown that he can be a pretty solid two-way center at the NHL level, but his draft had still several better talents than him. And especially with his injury history and not that impressive offensive skills there should be red flags all over the place for picking him already as the 2nd pick.

I can tell you that with the similar kind of injury history and health problems a European player with his skillset, but much less of North American hype, would have dropped out from the top 10, maybe even out from the top 20. He was picked as 2nd because of the several years of North American hype on him, there’s no way around it. He should have in reality been picked around 6th or 7th overall. Even that would be a bit risky with his injury history.

 

[AvsFan29]

Entirely? Of course not. However should we look into Mackinnon's three last seasons 14-15: 38 points in 64 games, 15-16: 52 points in 72 games 16-17: 53 points in 82 games - he's been averaging some 0,5-0,7 ppg during the last years and all of the sudden he doubles the production? I don't believe that any player would or could develop at that age this much. Also when you look at Rantanen's points, he too finished his year over ppg. So yeah, Rantanen had significant impact on Mack's production and if it was one of these two who had significantly developed, that wasn't Mack (it was Rantanen). That's precisely why I said I wanted to see another season with similar production and preferably without Rantanen in the same line to see exactly where he is today. With that said, I don't think anyone carried anyone, but they elevated each other's game quite perfectly. Rantanen is such a heck of a player and Avs got very lucky with the Sharks messing up their pick in the 2015 NHL draft.



Why would I have to watch highlights when I've watched half of his games?



Yeah like I said Kakko has the package and all those "little" things combined makes him extremely special. I didn't say there was a tier between him and Laine, and in fact Kakko seems more capable especially on the 5vs5 game at the same age. Yet still, even all things considered I don't think he will be as highly regarded or even as valuable as Laine when they're both in their peaks. Time will tell. As for did I watch any Avs games, ehm, I followed three NHL teams last season, The Jets, The Canes and The Avs. How is it that everytime someone has a different opinion the first thing they'll say is "you clearly didn't watch <insert a team> yada yada" while drawing conclusions without fully understanding the context. I watched plenty, and now I want to see more.

There's a very real chance that Kakko could be drafted by the Avs this year. Then we can compare these players in real time