RW Kaapo Kakko - TPS, Liiga (2019 Draft)

[Ippenator]

Relative to a lot of guys his age he's extremely powerful of course when you compare him to a 22 year old 5 year NHL vet defencemen and a 21 year old who has always been on the bigger side compared to Laine then yeah he looks less powerful. He can lay out some decent hits for sure and he can get guys off the puck. It's his speed that limits how effectively he does that. As for board battles he has a way to go for sure but he handles himself well out there. And he obviously has some athleticism or do you consider him fat and out of shape?
Also what a rather pointless thing to gripe about.... out of all the things I said that is what you have an issue with?

Ok, not fat and out of shape. But I wouldn't consider his athleticism even that good at the NHL level. The weak legs and also not too good stamina are his biggest weaknesses. Arms are his best strength with his muscles for sure, and with last season’s training he did manage to get his core already to a pretty much ok level that has helped him do clearly better in board battles during the last season.

Maybe we see it after all a bit in the same direction. But I would still say that it sounds like exaggerating to me to call him a very athletic and powerful young player. But you might be right that when we compare him really to players of his age, there he might be quite good at least with his power and athleticism. But not at the level that McDavid, Eichel or Matthews are with their athleticism for sure. Of course he might never even reach their level in it. On the other hand he is quite much bigger than any of them, so it is most likely a longer project for him anyway to get himself to his physical prime. That’s how it usually is for 6’5 tall players.

 

[Ippenator]

Hockey is a team sport and speed is a major part of that. You can have a 50-60 goal scorer for the next decade and never win a Championship. You can have an Art Ross winner that never makes the playoffs.
Hockey isn't about point and goal totals. It is about having a strong team game. That is what wins you championships. Tarasenko is the best 5v5 goal scorer in the league over the last 3 seasons, better than Ovi, Sid and Malkin. How many championships has he won so far?

Of course it is still a team sport. But honestly with the coaches (Hitchcock and Yeo) that the Blues have had lately, you will win nothing in nowadays NHL even with whomever players. Way too passive coaches (especially Yeo) and Hitch is already ready for retiring. Too old style in his coaching and will not be able to get his team to play dynamically enough. Tarasenko is definitely a very good player anyway.

 

[Daximus]

Of course it is still a team sport. But honestly with the coaches (Hitchcock and Yeo) that the Blues have had lately, you will win nothing in nowadays NHL even with whomever players. Way too passive coaches (especially Yeo) and Hitch is already ready for retiring. Too old style in his coaching and will not be able to get his team to play dynamically enough.

Barry Trotz is an old school coach and just won a championship. I don't think coaching style matters as much as execution but that is OT for the thread.

I'm just saying I think Kakko displays better hockey IQ than Laine did at the same age.

 

[Ippenator]

Barry Trotz is an old school coach and just won a championship. I don't think coaching style matters as much as execution but that is OT for the thread.

I'm just saying I think Kakko displays better hockey IQ than Laine did at the same age.

We will see it for real only if he shows that against men in Liiga next season. So far he has shown similar level of IQ as Laine at the same age. Quicker decision making for sure, but on the other hand Laine has shown still the better efficiency with his decision making. But we will see what Kakko is really about during the forthcoming Liiga season.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

I would say that he will need to get about 10 kg more of muscle mass in general to really stand his ground in the NHL.

Why would Kakko have to weigh 94kg when most star forwards don't?

 

[Ippenator]

Why would Kakko have to weigh 94kg when most star forwards don't?

They usually do if they are 187 cm or taller. Even Selänne was only 183 cm tall and weighed about 94 kg in his prime. And it’s quite possible that Kakko even grows at least a bit taller.

Some other examples:

Zibanejad 187 cm 103 kg
Ovechkin 187 cm 108 kg
Benn 188 cm 95 kg
Voracek 189 cm 97 kg
Draisaitl 189 cm 98 kg
Scheifele 190 cm 94 kg
Perry 190 cm 97 kg
Barkov 191 cm 97 kg
Matthews 191 cm 98 kg
Lee 191 cm 105 kg
Couturier 192 cm 96 kg
Kopitar 192 cm 101 kg
Getzlaf 193 cm 101 kg

Shorter than 187 cm, but heavier than 94 kg:

Bäckström 184 cm 97 kg
Landeskog 184 cm 98 kg
Tarasenko 184 cm 99 kg
Tavares 185 cm 95 kg
O’Reilly 185 cm 98 kg

Under 187 cm but close to 94 kg:

Skinner 180 cm 91 kg
Crosby 180 cm 91 kg
Kessel 182 cm 92 kg
MacKinnon 183 cm 93 kg
Hall 185 cm 93 kg
Kuznetsov 186 cm 93 kg

 

[Hockeyisl1fe]

Here is some more highlights from Kakko.

That slapper at 5:41 though, wow.

 

[Hockeyisl1fe]

This kid is good. Seems to be a monster in tight, scores a lot of goals right in the paint almost. Really solid off the rush great hands. Smooth skater. Protects the puck well. Pretty good along the boards. Shot arsenal is good. Definitely has the potential to be the best winger in the 2019 class. Doesn't seem to be a lot of weakness' from his game but nothing that majorly stands out either. I'll form a better opinion on that the more I watch him. Doesn't look 6'4 out there though. I'd say he's closer to 6'2-6'3 range going by some of his teammates heights around him.

Nothing majorly stands out about him? Yeah, you definitely haven't watched him enough.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

Also it’s good to remember that he seriously does mostly the good options defensively without the puck that most of all leads into preventing the opposing team from scoring. He’s not a takeaway monster (although not in fact bad with them), but he doesnt need to be, as he reads the play very well defensively and is very good at using his positional play for supporting other players with their defence. He does the so called supportive defending in an excellent way, and it is in fact almost criminal that so little amount of people understand this. It’s a big reason why opponents don't really score much of 5 on 5 goals when Laine is on the ice.

Then why do they bleed shots when he’s on the ice? 47.8% SF%

Would make for an interesting line of pursuit

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

It's more processing at speed that I like. Especially since the game is changing to be incredibly fast in the NHL. I can't say for sure how Kakko's game will translate at higher levels but I think he looks to be a very different style of player than Laine. Which isn't a bad thing for either of them.

The one thing that Kakko has to get out of his game is the frivolous dangles. He can do it at will in junior, will still be able to do it next season, but it won’t fly in the NHL more often than not.

 

[Daximus]

Nothing majorly stands out about him? Yeah, you definitely haven't watched him enough.

Yeah only a game +highlights. Definitely need more views.

Edit: actually 2 games now.

 

[Ippenator]

Then why do they bleed shots when he’s on the ice? 47.8% SF%

Would make for an interesting line of pursuit

Advanced stats like that mean practically nothing, if the end result is that they let in a small amount of goals. It doesn't matter if the opponents shoot more than your team, if they dont get to shoot from quality chances. Laine’s defensive play is not so much about trying to take the puck away from the opponent, but rather to keep them out from getting clear scoring chances. And he has done good work in that, especially with being usually the first forward to get back to his own end to help his defencemen keep out of getting into 2 against 1 or 3 against 2 counter attacks. This is also a thing that is immensely undervalued in Laine’s play. Opponents score very rarely from those most dangerous counter attacks when Laine is on the ice.

Sure he can get even better with his defensive play as he can do also with his offensive play. But the thing that he is great already with is how he can balance the offence and the defence in the right way so that his line scores clearly more goals than they let in. And the fact is that the good goal difference doesn't come just because of good scoring, but also from letting in small amounts of goals.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

Advanced stats like that mean practically nothing, if the end result is that they let in a small amount of goals. It doesn't matter if the opponents shoot more than your team, if they dont get to shoot from quality chances. Laine’s defensive play is not so much about trying to take the puck away from the opponent, but rather to keep them out from getting clear scoring chances. And he has done good work in that, especially with being usually the first forward to get back to his own end to help his defencemen keep out of getting into 2 against 1 or 3 against 2 counter attacks. This is also a thing that is immensely undervalued in Laine’s play. Opponents score very rarely from those most dangerous counter attacks when Laine is on the ice.

Sure he can get even better with his defensive play as he can do also with his offensive play. But the thing that he is great already with is how he can balance the offence and the defence in the right way so that his line scores clearly more goals than they let in. And the fact is that the good goal difference doesn't come just because of good scoring, but also from letting in small amounts of goals.

The difference between GA/SA60 and sv% match up, but GF/SF60 and sh% is around .3 which suggests Laine’s presence on the ice is allowing his teammates to score at a slightly higher rate, which makes sense. Would need to compare by season to account for goaltending.

 

[Ippenator]

The difference between GA/SA60 and sv% match up, but GF/SF60 and sh% is around .3 which suggests Laine’s presence on the ice is allowing his teammates to score at a slightly higher rate, which makes sense. Would need to compare by season to account for goaltending.

Laine is for the last two seasons (the only ones he has had in the NHL) the best 5 on 5 goal difference player for the Jets (together with Scheifele). But for the latest season it was his 5 on 5 allowed goals that was exactly the teams tops. There were still clearly better players with their 5 on 5 scoring (at least Wheeler and Scheifele) but none better from the top six forwards in allowed goals.

 

[Hockeyisl1fe]

Advanced stats like that mean practically nothing, if the end result is that they let in a small amount of goals. It doesn't matter if the opponents shoot more than your team, if they dont get to shoot from quality chances. Laine’s defensive play is not so much about trying to take the puck away from the opponent, but rather to keep them out from getting clear scoring chances. And he has done good work in that, especially with being usually the first forward to get back to his own end to help his defencemen keep out of getting into 2 against 1 or 3 against 2 counter attacks. This is also a thing that is immensely undervalued in Laine’s play. Opponents score very rarely from those most dangerous counter attacks when Laine is on the ice.

Sure he can get even better with his defensive play as he can do also with his offensive play. But the thing that he is great already with is how he can balance the offence and the defence in the right way so that his line scores clearly more goals than they let in. And the fact is that the good goal difference doesn't come just because of good scoring, but also from letting in small amounts of goals.

SF% means nothing... I bet it would if it was in Laine's favor? He is the first forward to get back on his own end because he is the closest there in the offensive zone. He doesn't get involved too much in corners or around the crease, that also means he has more stamina left to skate back. He is one of the best snipers in the NHL, but he isn't some kind of an all-around beast like you make him out to be. He is in the NHL atm because of his goal scoring ability.

 

[Daximus]

SF% means nothing... I bet it would if it was in Laine's favor? He is the first forward to get back on his own end because he is the closest there in the offensive zone. He doesn't get involved too much in corners or around the crease, that also means he has more stamina left to skate back. He is one of the best snipers in the NHL, but he isn't some kind of an all-around beast like you make him out to be. He is in the NHL atm because of his goal scoring ability.

Yeah if he didn't have one of the best shots in the league the rest of his game would not be enough for him to be in the NHL at the moment.

 

[Ippenator]

SF% means nothing... I bet it would if it was in Laine's favor? He is the first forward to get back on his own end because he is the closest there in the offensive zone. He doesn't get involved too much in corners or around the crease, that also means he has more stamina left to skate back. He is one of the best snipers in the NHL, but he isn't some kind of an all-around beast like you make him out to be. He is in the NHL atm because of his goal scoring ability.

He is good because he is smart. Not just because he has one of the best if not even the best shot in the league. He is an absolutely great all around player when you think of how weak he is still physically. As I mentioned already, he was the best forward from all of the Jets top six forwards last season in allowed goals on 5 on 5 play. He played quite a lot with Ehlers, Little, Wheeler (when Scheifele was injured) and Connor (when Scheifele was injured) and yet he had clearly less allowed goals on 5 on 5 play than Wheeler and all the other top six forwards.

 

[Hockeyisl1fe]

Also can we stop these comparisons to Laine? They have exactly two things common as players: they play wing and both are finnish.

 

[Ippenator]

Yeah if he didn't have one of the best shots in the league the rest of his game would not be enough for him to be in the NHL at the moment.

Extremely wrong really. With this kind of comments I have to say that I can’t hold your opinion on Laine in any kind of value really.

 

[Ippenator]

Also can we stop these comparisons to Laine? They have exactly two things common as players: they play wing and both are finnish.

For me it’s obvious that there is and will be constantly comparisons between Kakko and all the most talented Finnish forwards. That’s what these boards are pretty much about really. Comparing young and talented players and trying to understand their potential through those conparisons.

 

[Daximus]

Extremely wrong really. With this kind of comments I have to say that I can’t hold your opinion on Laine in any kind of value really.

He just wouldn't be if he didn't have his shot arsenal and say he had Puljujarvi's instead. He wouln't be anywhere near as useful. That's just facts. Sorry it doesn't line up with your Laine Messiah complex. He would likely have never been drafted at 2nd overall last year without his shot. Likely playing somewhere in Europe still as a mid round pick. Probably would have just stuck it out at goalie really..

 

[Ippenator]

He just wouldn't be if he didn't have his shot arsenal and say he had Puljujarvi's instead. He wouln't be anywhere near as useful. That's just facts. Sorry it doesn't line up with your Laine Messiah complex. He would likely have never been drafted at 2nd overall last year without his shot. Likely playing somewhere in Europe still.

This just shows that you lack understanding of how players with high hockey IQ can make themselves very efficient at both ends of the ice, and not maybe please your eyes very much while doing it. It means that you probably watch hockey more like you would be watching figure skating. You want to like what you see visually. And the more a player pleases your eyes with his playing style, the more you like him. To me those kind of things don't mean much in hockey. I watch and appreciate the end results and the efficiency of players at both ends of the ice. That way you see the true class of players.

 

[Hockeyisl1fe]

Extremely wrong really. With this kind of comments I have to say that I can’t hold your opinion of Laine in any kind of value really.

What about the WAR stat, is that useless too? It suggests the exact same thing: his value for his team is exclusively related to how much he can score goals and nothing else really.

 

[Ippenator]

What about the WAR stat, is that useless too? It suggest the exact same thing: his value for his team is exclusively related to how much he can score goals and nothing else really.

I’m not a believer in any kind of ”advanced” stats, so I can’t say anything about WAR. Doesnt matter to me at all how good whomever has been in WAR or any other of that kind of an advanced stat. As I have said before, to me the only meaningful stats are the raw end result stats like goals, assists, points, wins and losses (more for goalies though) and 5 on 5 scored and allowed goals.

 

[Patrik Barkov]

What about the WAR stat, is that useless too? It suggests the exact same thing: his value for his team is exclusively related to how much he can score goals and nothing else really.

Luckily for him, he scores a bunch of 'em.